Holy cow... so I checked out Tesla S in person today, I had no idea.

[waggy]

hopefully they get it figured out and safer. a electric vehicle with a 250 mile range would be great.

Though it wouldn't be my only vehicle. There are times i drive more then that. but for 80% of my driving 250 is great.

 

[smackababy]

hopefully they get it figured out and safer. a electric vehicle with a 250 mile range would be great.

Though it wouldn't be my only vehicle. There are times i drive more then that. but for 80% of my driving 250 is great.

If I could charge one near where I live, 250 miles would last me around 3-4 weeks per charge. That would be amazing!

 

[michal1980]

Honestly though, what is there to look into? These cars aren't fireproof. They were involved in serious accidents that resulted in a fire. Just look at the one in Mexico:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/wp-content/uploads//2013/10/Tesla-Model-S-Fire-Mexico.jpg

They're not spontaneously combusting. They're not catching on fire in fender benders. They all experienced impacts at speed. There have been dozens of other Tesla accidents, including ones with broken batteries, that have not resulted in fires. I don't see what the problem is here. More than one of my $20 mini electric R/C helicopters have crashed and caught on fire. I don't expect a fuel source to withstand severe impacts without damage.

so now there are 4 that caught fire?

Which means Tesla's burn rate is currently the same per mile as every other car?


Its about PR. Musk was running around going to 'fix' Boeing's battery problem. a month ago there blog claimed that gas cars are 5x more likely to catch fire.

Now their cars catch fire at the same rate.


They dont have to look into anything. But they need to stop looking so smug. And at least pretend to 'look' into something.

 

[Kaido]

so now there are 4 that caught fire?

Nope, just 3:

#1 - 25-ton impact on the undercarriage sparked the fire

#2 - car in Mexico tried to fly

#3 - car hit a tow hook. no more details yet.

 

[Midwayman]

Pfft. Even if the burn rate was double an ICE vehicle I'd still buy one.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I sold my stock at 150 the other day after buying around 50. Had a good run.

 

[phucheneh]

To the people saying 'look how many Priuses are out there'...maybe look into the locational differences at play here. The Prius has its battery in the middle of the car. Right behind the rear seat, higher than the spare tire well. It will not be damaged in a collision with another car...let alone road debris.

Did I mention it's NiMH and weighs a little over a hundred pounds?

The Tesla is Li-Ion and weighs WELL over a thousand pounds. I want to give the car a chance, but sorry...that number just pushes it to full-retard for me.

The ICE safety crap is also silly. Don't follow Musk's apparent idiotic idea that shorting gasoline to other gasoline makes a fire. At least, that seems to be what he's saying in the stuff I've seen from him. Creating a flaming fuel leak is not exactly as easy as he seems to think it is. Certainly not as easy as pushing two plates inside a battery together.

To be clear, I don't see either as high risk. But Musk's 'logic' used in his arguments makes me want to smack the shit out of him.

 

[waggy]

If I could charge one near where I live, 250 miles would last me around 3-4 weeks per charge. That would be amazing!

250 miles would last about a week for me. Trouble is during the winter/spring i have to travel gymnastics competition. i think iw ould be pushing that amount.

also my dad lives 400 miles away and i visit nearly monthly.


otherwise man it would be great! though the cost of the car is still far to much.

 

[Zorba]

Well, to be fair, the Boeing airplane didn't impact anything to cause the fire

True, but it also didn't total the aircraft

One problem with the Tesla fires versus ICE fires is lithium-ion batteries burn hotter than gasoline and are much harder to put out.

 

[Ben90]

I drive a Pontiac Fiero with 300k and get reminded weekly from someone that my car is unsafe and going to catch fire at any time. I wouldn't be too worried about Tesla even though I'm sure they are more likely to catch fire in a terrible accident than an ICE once we get a greater statistic size. The media dramatizes everything. The truth is thousands of Teslas are driving day to day with no issues whatsoever.

 

[JEDI]

hopefully they get it figured out and safer. a electric vehicle with a 250 mile range would be great.

Though it wouldn't be my only vehicle. There are times i drive more then that. but for 80% of my driving 250 is great.

but for that price, u can buy a Civic/corolla, drive it a zillion miles and still have $ left over.
heck, you can buy both and still have $ left over.

 

[Cobalt]

but for that price, u can buy a Civic/corolla, drive it a zillion miles and still have $ left over.
heck, you can buy both and still have $ left over.

A Model S is also a car in a totally different league than those you mentioned. The Model S is more of a 5 series competitor in terms of luxury and performance. I hate that argument.

 

[nerp]

The key is to not crash. Some of these crashes look like idiots flying off the road, speeding, recklessness, etc. It's not like "oh hey, some rain drops (explode)."

 

[Ferzerp]

The key is to not crash. Some of these crashes look like idiots flying off the road, speeding, recklessness, etc. It's not like "oh hey, some rain drops (explode)."

Of the 3 reported fires, your statement is accurate for 1. The other two ran over debris on the road (think moderate sized pieces of metal)... No recklessness, no speeding, no idiotic driving other than not leaving enough of a gap to dodge the unexpected object. That is, driving like almost everyone I see every day drives.

 

[MagickMan]

The latest actually lifted the car up, and it isn't light, leaving a deep gouge in the asphalt. It's likely the tow hook would have gone through the floorboard of most cars.

 

[nerp]

Of the 3 reported fires, your statement is accurate for 1. The other two ran over debris on the road (think moderate sized pieces of metal)... No recklessness, no speeding, no idiotic driving other than not leaving enough of a gap to dodge the unexpected object. That is, driving like almost everyone I see every day drives.

Hmmm. Still somewhat preventable (sometimes) if you leave a gap, but yes, it is a concern. I just don't think it's sky-is-falling level of concern though. If car Web sites and magazines reported on traditional car fires the same way they do Tesla fires, there would be little room for any other news.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

To the people saying 'look how many Priuses are out there'...maybe look into the locational differences at play here. The Prius has its battery in the middle of the car. Right behind the rear seat, higher than the spare tire well. It will not be damaged in a collision with another car...let alone road debris.

Did I mention it's NiMH and weighs a little over a hundred pounds?

The Tesla is Li-Ion and weighs WELL over a thousand pounds. I want to give the car a chance, but sorry...that number just pushes it to full-retard for me.

you're comparing an oil burner with an (optional plug-in version) electric range of 11 miles or less to an all-electric with a range of about 250 miles. yeah, which has the bigger battery?

 

[MagickMan]

you're comparing an oil burner with an (optional plug-in version) electric range of 11 miles or less to an all-electric with a range of about 250 miles. yeah, which has the bigger battery?

I don't believe it's a rational dislike, from what I gather he works on ICEs so anything completely without one he sees as a threat.

The Model S being electric wasn't the main reason we chose it. We wanted something that; comfortably seats 5, has large amounts of storage space, offers stellar performance, and looks attractive (to me crossovers and SUVs are pretty damned ugly). It fits all of those, the fact it gets >80 eMPG is a bonus.

 

[phucheneh]

That bit had nothing to do with seeing it as a 'threat.' I was simply commenting on the people using the rationale of 'current hybrids aren't catching fire, so the Tesla must be safe.'

1) I'm not saying that it isn't safe. 2) I was not making a comparison between any aspects of the vehicles other than 'here is a major reason why Toyota has not had battery packs go up in flames'.

Elon Musk would probably call the Prius a deathtrap, what with its battery pack being so close to a tank or horridly, ridiculously, absurdly unsafe gasoline.

Anyway, my only real point (other than Musk is just another Steve Jobs-like big-mouthed retard) is that covering the bottom of the car in over half a ton of the cheapest lithium cells they could find seems like a terrible idea.

I'm willing to give it a chance. But my prediction is that the car will either be out of production or majorly redesigned within a couple years. I'm not saying I know this; it's just the way I'm leaning.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

if i were building a car and had 1000 pounds of bulk to mount, the floor is the only place i'd consider. then i'd enclose it in a steel box and mount a steel skidplate. any other location would make the car handle like ass and expose the packs to more likely and more extensive damage.

if they had chosen to mount an ICE for on-board generation, i'd call it the (practically) perfect car and what every design will follow through the 21st century. the sooner mechanical transmissions are extinct, the better.

 

[MagickMan]

1. Musk isn't a "retard", he's very intelligent, it's accurate to say he's very arrogant. However, so are most self-made billionaires. Ellison, Gates, Branson, Buffett (boy-howdy), etc. etc. are all full of themselves, because you don't get to that level without it. Inasmuch as it's a personality flaw, it's also a well of confidence and a strength.

2. I've not heard Musk say anything derogatory about the Prius, that's pure, unsubstantiated speculation.

3. The Li-Ion cells they use aren't "the cheapest they could find", they're less expensive because the process to make them is simpler as well as being more advanced. Also, because of the volume they're using they get a huge production discount. This is all detailed in their prospectus and their press release on their partnership with Panasonic.

4. Mercedes and GM are both entering agreements with Tesla to license their EV technology. That's more money in their coffers, profits that will likely surpass what they make via production. Before long, in 2014 actually, you'll see Merc EVs with badging that says "powered by Tesla", and GM will follow soon after.

The bottom line: Betting against Tesla right now is like betting against Apple right after the iPod hit the market. "That's stupid and expensive, who would want one of those?" (I also seem to remember those having early battery issues too... Hmm...) Wow, what most folks wouldn't do to go back and buy 50,000 shares of AAPL at that time. Right?

Oh, and Teslas are safer because they're designed to completely shield occupants in case something goes wrong (best score of any vehicle ever crash tested). In fact, in every case no one was harmed at all. That's saying something in the second accident in particular, since the car went airborne at a high rate of speed and took out a tree and a wall. The third fire probably wouldn't have even happened at all if the guy hadn't kept driving for 45 minutes after running over the tow hook and the car told him there were serious problems that required service. It's the same as someone continuing to drive a regular car after the check engine light comes on.

You want to see ICEs continue and I get that, because I do too, but EVs are here and they're going to become more prominent, that's just reality. Trying to make the Model S out to be severely flawed because of that bias only clouds your own perception, it doesn't actually harm Tesla one bit. It's like the people who sat around wondering what happened to Sony and the Walkman after Apple crushed their market share. "Where did they come from?"

 

[MagickMan]

if i were building a car and had 1000 pounds of bulk to mount, the floor is the only place i'd consider. then i'd enclose it in a steel box and mount a steel skidplate. any other location would make the car handle like ass and expose the packs to more likely and more extensive damage.

if they had chosen to mount an ICE for on-board generation, i'd call it the (practically) perfect car and what every design will follow through the 21st century. the sooner mechanical transmissions are extinct, the better.

Not as long as I have my cars, they won't. I still prefer 3 pedals and a stick.

 

[phucheneh]

Again, you're arguing against an invisible opponent. This rabid oil-chugging electricity-hating madman, bent on Tesla's destruction. Who is apparently me.

It is your perceptions that are the issue here. I'm saying 'this design doesn't seem very good,' and you're being...I hate to say it, but I have no better word...a fanboy.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Not as long as I have my cars, they won't. I still prefer 3 pedals and a stick.

my only car has 3 pedals and a stick, and for everyday driving the pain outweighs the pleasure. around here anyway. sitting in traffic jams, i'd rather have the fuel economy and the use of my legs back. but the enthusiast driver is just a drop in the bucket. manuals are nearly extinct already - not from advances in electric drive but from lack of demand.

of much greater weight are the 95+% of cars sold today with automatics, plus almost all trucks under 10,000 pounds, plus the huge trucks and equipment which are exclusively more manual gears than a bicycle. that's a shit-ton of fuel burned for nothing.

 

[MagickMan]

my only car has 3 pedals and a stick, and for everyday driving the pain outweighs the pleasure. around here anyway. sitting in traffic jams, i'd rather have the fuel economy and the use of my legs back. but the enthusiast driver is just a drop in the bucket. manuals are nearly extinct already - not from advances in electric drive but from lack of demand.

of much greater weight are the 95+% of cars sold today with automatics, plus almost all trucks under 10,000 pounds, plus the huge trucks and equipment which are exclusively more manual gears than a bicycle. that's a shit-ton of fuel burned for nothing.

You're forgetting the millions of classic and collector cars still out there, those will be around for the foreseeable future, and people like me will be driving them for the rest of our lives. I love burning fuel, and will keep doing so, as will the 100s of thousands of other members of the SCCA and similar clubs.

Once the autonomous electric cars take over, the sheep can ride in those, that will leave people like me as the only human drivers left on the roads.