Holy Cow - Windows 8. OMG

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Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
And much like people are abhorent towards the trackball (thumb or finger tracking), given the chance, it works and is more beneficial than a mouse.

I see mouse technologies that focus on being able to operate on any surface... but we already had pointing options that do that - trackball. I went to it initially to solve a problem using a computer hooked to a HDTV. And it worked. Now I see mouses playing catch up to a solution that was already there.

But that is a side story to this thread here.
 

lakedude

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2009
2,686
485
126
First brief history.

I've been using windows/dos since the very first versions. Vax/VMS on the job before that. I ran OS2 Warp for a time. And of course MacOS, Linux and Solaris. I'm a solaris/storage guy during the day. So I've been around a few operating systems going back 20+ years.

I just bought my mom a new laptop and it came with Windows 8.

After 2 weeks of running the gambit I'm just floored at how awful Windows 8 is. Man. Give me Windows ME or Vista over this rubbish. Holy cow. I finally ripped it off and put on a hacked copy of Windows 7 after Dell refused to swap my restore CD with a Windows 7 one. (Even offered to pay for it)

Just baffled at what Microsoft was thinking. You would think they learned their lesson with Vista.

Anyone else just shocked at this version?
Like rhhgga I've used many different operating systems over the years including DOS, VAX/VMS, AmigaOS, multiple versions of Linux, Solaris (ZFS rulz!), and every version of Windows from 95 to W8.

W8 as it comes stock with a touch-pad based laptop is just the worst! I'm trained as an Engineer and work as a Technician so I was able to eventually figure it all out but man what a pain in the neck! The edge swipe gestures were the worst of it. Sure a registry edit fixed the issue but why couldn't M$ just offer alternate configuration options, one for touch screens and one for desktops?

At the end of the day I'm in the middle of this issue. On one had I think W8 is a pain in the neck but it isn't so bad that a technically skilled person couldn't get accustom to it or modify it to their liking (not that they should be required to).
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Similar background as the OP with the VAX/VMS etc and I have been using it since the release and really find a lot to like about it. Like most on a desktop I think it was stupid to take away the Start button and hide the shutdown button in the Settings menu but other than that I am really ok with it.
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,905
1,551
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Was tooling around with a Win8 notebook at Costco for a bit. It really doesn't seem all that objectionable.

I mean, I'm the sort who would probably use the "old fashioned" desktop view all the time, ignoring the Metro stuff, but I can see how a consistent UI across devices (phones, tablets, desktop PCs) would be advantageous for less proficient users.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Just move your mouse to the corner of the screen eh? That's great, except for those of us who remote desktop to a windows 8 machine, and now I have to move the mouse to a specific small area of pixels in the corner of a window. This OS was clearly putting the needs of touch interface tablet users over the needs of desktop mouse and keyboard users.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
Just move your mouse to the corner of the screen eh? That's great, except for those of us who remote desktop to a windows 8 machine, and now I have to move the mouse to a specific small area of pixels in the corner of a window. This OS was clearly putting the needs of touch interface tablet users over the needs of desktop mouse and keyboard users.

Exactly.
They thought they can have a dual interface with primary focus on touch screens.
They failed to see that 95% of the user base doesn't have, nor do they have any plans, to get a touch screen monitor.
All they need to do to fix this mess is only have the touch screen crap, when it detects a touch screen.
Idiots.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Just move your mouse to the corner of the screen eh? That's great, except for those of us who remote desktop to a windows 8 machine, and now I have to move the mouse to a specific small area of pixels in the corner of a window. This OS was clearly putting the needs of touch interface tablet users over the needs of desktop mouse and keyboard users.
This has been my problem with Win8 and Server 2012 since the RC's. My only option now with my 2012 servers is to put shortcuts to everything I will need on the desktop (which I hate) now cause with my phone there is no good way to trigger the startmenu or even navigate it once it's finally up.

Windows 8 no start button is unacceptable, a server OS (2012) that is geared towards touch is absolutely inexcusable.

Who here that administrates more than 30 or so servers has a touch screen in their server room? And who here even has a screen in their server room? Since the iLO's and the DRAC cards came into play I have hardly visited a server room outside of the install and any hardware repairs. And anyone else that uses iLO and remote access cards know that the virtual mouse in those is far from precise.. MS's server team should know this.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Just move your mouse to the corner of the screen eh? That's great, except for those of us who remote desktop to a windows 8 machine, and now I have to move the mouse to a specific small area of pixels in the corner of a window. This OS was clearly putting the needs of touch interface tablet users over the needs of desktop mouse and keyboard users.

Windows key also switches between them.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
There is a lot to like, such as the new analytics displays in Task Manager. I have to admit though, the metro screen is really jarring. Especially because I am used to OSX shortcuts and accidentally hitting the cmd/win key always fills my entire screen with Metro
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Windows key also switches between them.

The windows key only targets the remote machine in fullscreen mode. Otherwise I have to chose whether the windows key targets my local machine or the remote machine, but not both.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
The windows key only targets the remote machine in fullscreen mode. Otherwise I have to chose whether the windows key targets my local machine or the remote machine, but not both.

ahh, that sucks then.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,886
1,103
126
I don't mind it. I would like an option for it to boot right to the desktop app though. Hopefully Windows 8 R2 or whatever microsoft are calling it will give that option. Until then I don't see how this can work in a corporate type of network?

A few things...

- Ability to launch an app at startup (like desktop)
- Tidy up the metro screen. At the moment lots of apps just dump all sorts of useless sohrtcuts on it.
- Ability to lock down the metro screen (is that possible? I can't find that option)
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
I don't mind it. I would like an option for it to boot right to the desktop app though. Hopefully Windows 8 R2 or whatever microsoft are calling it will give that option. Until then I don't see how this can work in a corporate type of network?

A few things...

- Ability to launch an app at startup (like desktop)
- Tidy up the metro screen. At the moment lots of apps just dump all sorts of useless sohrtcuts on it.
- Ability to lock down the metro screen (is that possible? I can't find that option)

The first two are possible. I have stuff in my startup folder. Google it and you can find the path, but its hidden in the User folder. It starts up just like Win7.

The metro screen - you can remove and rearrange the tiles all you want. Click and drag. Right click and remove. Simple.

Not sure what oyu mean by lock down the metro screen.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I have it on my media storage unit, so don't actively use that computer itself, what I haven't figured out yet is how to start a program without going to the folder on the drive and hitting up the exe that way.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
I have it on my media storage unit, so don't actively use that computer itself, what I haven't figured out yet is how to start a program without going to the folder on the drive and hitting up the exe that way.

You can make a Tile or put a Shortcut on your Desktop.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
Yeah, I was shocked... at how much security hardening they did under the hood, ranging from the boot mechanisms, to the kernel security overhaul, to supporting the new security features in the latest CPUs (SMEP), to high-entropy ASLR and mandatory DEP... shocking.

I prioritize on security, so rather than throwing out Win8 because of the crazy UI (which I don't like either), I added a start-menu add-on and now have the best of both worlds. Win7 UI, plus Win8 security advances. If you want your mom's computer to be as secure as practical, then you might want to rethink this. And if you do, remember to re-enable Secure Boot and confirm it's active.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Does anyone else realize the irony that having your screen full of shortcuts is what Windows 3.x users were dealing with?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,633
8,521
136
The thing is that they could have just given the option for a start menu or leave it there in the first place. THE ONLY F REASON TO REMOVE IT WAS TO SHOVE THE MODERN UI CRAP INTO YOUR FACE SO YOU CAN'T AVOID IT. There was no technical reason for it. It is so obvious: "Learn this new UI so you will then buy our phones with the same crap on them". Seriously...shows how much confidence MS has in their own stuff. I mean if it would be better than Android or iOS, no need to force you to learn it...

Also Aero. leave it an option. I mean WTF? In Win 7 aero is disabled with power settings and MS claimed they removed it to save power??? Plus removing something takes work so if it does not hurt, leave it in. My guess is they had issue to get it to work together with Modern UI and/or the new ribbon in explorer and hence disabled it.


That's the fundamental point as far as I'm concerned. For all the defenders who pop up on every critical thread declaring yet again that they use it and they think Metro is fine, or (perfectly correctly) pointing out there are a few decent improvements 'under the hood', the bottom line is someone at MS took a very cynical decision to throw traditional desktop users 'under the bus' in order to segue desktop dominance into some sort of marketing opportunity for phones and pads.

While I'm sure I _could_ make win8 usable for me (everything functional is still there), I just find the cynicism of it a bit insulting. It just seems like the actions of corporate execs being self-consciously 'brave' or 'radical' instead of thinking about what existing users actually need. So personally I'll be avoiding win8 for as long as I possibly can. MS can go court those smartphone kiddies - good luck to them!
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
4,363
1
81
What's shocking to me is how crappy a lot of the Modern UI programs are, when used on a non-touch desktop PC. I hate how they take the entire screen (I have a 24" monitor) and hardly have any options. I don't mind programs running like that on my phone, but for my computer it just seems ridiculous.

Overall I like Windows 8, but it took a fair amount of configuration to reduce the impact of all the Modern UI crap. The more I use it, the more I feel they need an option for it to go completely away for the desktop.
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
0
0
Have not upgraded yet, but I don't see the changes affecting my personal experience in the slightest. Start Menu was always crap and I was not using it for anything besides search, and this new UI is probably going to be slightly better for that purpose. I'm never going to touch Metro apps, so any problems with them are not my problems.

I did try the new UI on a laptop at a store, had a Microsoft rep explain how the stuff works, and my impression was that it's a waste. MS took a big chance, re-did the UI entirely, and this crap is what they come up with? Context menu appearing at one end of the screen from where you have clicked is as far from usable as you can possibly get. Gestures do not work consistently between mouse, touchscreen, and touchpad, and none of those gesture schemes is good in its own right. Having to put a cursor in a corner and then slide up or down or click, for instance. In OS X I have "hot corners" set up so that different stuff happens when I just throw the mouse cursor in any of the corners; those are natural, reflexive actions by now, just yank the mouse in a diagonal direction and back without stopping, and I will have activated the corner as intended with 100% certainty. The MS gestures will never become like that. There was and still is a ton of stuff in Windows that should be re-thought from the ground up; now the chance is wasted.
 

C1

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2008
2,340
89
91
re:There was and still is a ton of stuff in Windows that should be re-thought from the ground up; now the chance is wasted.

Yup.

- Automatic smart window sizing
- Clone a window
- Better control of operational alerts (user must have ultimate say/control)

are just a few things which come to mind.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
I love Windows 8. I just had to disable the Windows key on my keyboard because Metro pops up all the time when I am using my push to talk keys.
 

N4g4rok

Senior member
Sep 21, 2011
285
0
0
Just move your mouse to the corner of the screen eh? That's great, except for those of us who remote desktop to a windows 8 machine, and now I have to move the mouse to a specific small area of pixels in the corner of a window. This OS was clearly putting the needs of touch interface tablet users over the needs of desktop mouse and keyboard users.

Are you just using the bottom right or top right corner of the screen? there's a bottom left option that makes it a little easier to just click and go. (As opposed to finding the right corner, then scrolling down to the middle. )

Windows 8 no start button is unacceptable, a server OS (2012) that is geared towards touch is absolutely inexcusable.

I can say it's nice to do some server administration from a tablet. The RDP app on Win8 has a few options to ease the touch-based remote issues. Swiping(or left clicking) brings up a button you can use to bring up the server's start menu, rather than trying to dig for pixels. Even when left to mouse/keyboard, the learning curve is steep, but not after a little time and patience. In fact the old arguments against the UI just seem silly afterwards.

My only real complaint with some of the arguments i've seen on tech reporting sites (the worst i've seen being Engadget) is the mentality that anyone who likes the new interface or supports some of the changes being made are shills or completely delusional.

It was an ugly switch at first, but after doing development work for the new platform as a whole, i've come to terms with the fact that the potential in the operating system is incredible. No, it isn't much fun to make the adjustment at first, but that's just the way changes to an OS go. Windows needed touch support to get some sort of foothold in the market. I remember that being a major point of complaint from people after the release of Windows 7. The way Microsoft is handling ecosystem-wide touch integration is the right way to do it for the varying types of consumers they will have.

I can't really see how "Me and 10000+ people don't like the way it looks" is a death sentence argument for the operating system as a whole. At the very least, it is ignorant to use that as the sole reason that the OS is a failure. Improvements under the hood are not an excuse, but a legitimate accomplishment in a new release. It's a shame that Windows is nice and stable now, but most wouldn't know because now there's a new problem to complain about. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge a few things Microsoft has done right without immediately claiming that the company is full of idiots. It does a lot more good to remain respectful in discussing new releases, but the jeering and crude humor seen in comment sections is just embarrassing. Better yet, they take feature suggestions from the MSDN forums all the time. Write up a legitimate idea (Which i've seen fleshed out here more often then there) and they'll actually do something about it.

EDIT: The rant as a whole was way more whiney than it needed to be, but seriously, there's a lot of good ideas floating around Anandtech that could be posted on the MSDN forums, or at least developed by some of the local programmers.
 
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jhansman

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2004
2,768
29
91
What shocks me is the hatred. Pure, uncut hatred. Its not the demon spawn from hell come to eliminate life on Earth. Its an operating system

Amen. Fer gawd's sake people, adjust. Does everything in your life stay the same? Hmmm, thought not. If the OP is that "baffled" then he should probably go buy a Mac.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,633
8,521
136

Originally Posted by cbrunny
What shocks me is the hatred. Pure, uncut hatred. Its not the demon spawn from hell come to eliminate life on Earth. Its an operating system
Amen. Fer gawd's sake people, adjust. Does everything in your life stay the same? Hmmm, thought not. If the OP is that "baffled" then he should probably go buy a Mac.

Enough hyperbole! Its not "pure uncut hatred" its consumers not liking a product and reacting with annoyance. Get over it, not everyone is going to love all products from your favorite company! Some people are too easily shocked.

And as for 'does everything in your life stay the same', nope, of course not, some things get better, some things get worse. Windows has just gotten slightly worse (when it could have become slightly better). Its a pity. But not hugely important.

Why do the MS-defenders feel the need to rush to do damage control every time a thread appears from someone who's just used it for the first time and is still in the 'irritated and disappointed' stage of usage (many will doubtless advance to 'resigned acceptance', I'm sure!).

And surely calling someone a Mac-user is a moderatable offense! That's really quite uncalled for!
 
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