Home Electrical -- Circuit down?

[NewSc2]

Update 2: So the outlet in question was very damaged. The front face had fallen off and a wire behind it was burned a bit. I replaced the outlet (I'm getting good at this now... took me about 20 min.). Unfortunately... that outlet wasn't on the circuit that's giving me issues. So now I'm back to square one.

I'm going to stop by the hardware store after work and maybe get a circuit line tester and ask some questions.

Basically, there are 8 outlets down on this circuit. I've tested all of them with the plugin tester -- they're all good. They all show up as 5-8 volts on the multimeter. Other outlets show up as 120 volts, so I'm pretty sure I'm testing the outlets right. I will look around for more dead outlets.

Question: Would the first (dead) outlet on this line run a 120volt current?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: NewSc2
Update 2: So the outlet in question was very damaged. The front face had fallen off and a wire behind it was burned a bit. I replaced the outlet (I'm getting good at this now... took me about 20 min.). Unfortunately... that outlet wasn't on the circuit that's giving me issues. So now I'm back to square one.

I'm going to stop by the hardware store after work and maybe get a circuit line tester and ask some questions.

Basically, there are 8 outlets down on this circuit. I've tested all of them with the plugin tester -- they're all good. They all show up as 5-8 volts on the multimeter. Other outlets show up as 120 volts, so I'm pretty sure I'm testing the outlets right. I will look around for more dead outlets.

Question: Would the first (dead) outlet on this line run a 120volt current?

>_M (that's a brain melt face -- 120Volt "current", lol)

To answer your question, no, you wouldn't necessarily see 120V at the dead outlet.

 

[amdskip]

Electricity is not something to mess around with. I'd call in an electrician at this point if I was you. Cheaper than replacing a house.

I hope you are not putting in the cheapest outlets you can get. I'm upgrading all of mine as I redo each room and I'm using commercially rated outlets and switches instead of the cheap junk ones. They were all wired up using back terminals too so I'm changing everything to side screws.

 

[BoomerD]

If this were my house...I'd start with isolating the circuit by turning circuit breakers off until I found the exact one that powers that circuit.

Next, with ONLY that circuit turned on, I'd identify exactly which outlets were powered by it.

Next, (with the breaker turned OFF) I'd open each outlet and unscrew the outlet from the box so it's hanging out of the wall

Then, I'd check all the screws for every wire on every outlet. If some (or all) of them were connected by the "push-in" connectors, I'd change them over to the screw connectors...and replace any outlet that didn't have the screw connectors....I've seen too many problems over the years caused by crappy connections in the "push-in" connectors.

Then, I'd power the circuit back up and using a multimeter, start checking voltages at every outlet....not the outlet itself, the wires that feed every outlet.

Odds are, by tightening/fixing every connection on every outlet, the problem will be corrected, but, if not, this is a start to isolating the actual problem.

Please remember, I'm neither an electricial nor electrical engineer, so YMMV with this, and should you try such a thing...YOU accept any responsibility for your safety while playing with energized wiring...

Also, as amdskip says...get quality outlets, not the super-cheap contractor grade crap that's often made in China...spend a bit more...get quality components.


Edit. I missed your updates...power the circuit off, remove the damaged outlet, clean the wire (or if there's enough, cut and re-strip the ends) then put in a good outlet. Repower the circuit and test.
If that doesn't do it, then go back to my post above and double check every outlet in the circuit.

 

[feralkid]

Sounds like a bad (loose connection) neutral in the breaker box.

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: amdskip
Electricity is not something to mess around with. I'd call in an electrician at this point if I was you. Cheaper than replacing a house.

I hope you are not putting in the cheapest outlets you can get. I'm upgrading all of mine as I redo each room and I'm using commercially rated outlets and switches instead of the cheap junk ones. They were all wired up using back terminals too so I'm changing everything to side screws.

Yeah, stay away from the cheapest ones.

Typically, the $0.78 versions on the bottom shelf are for 15A / 14AWG wire only.
You might as well pay $1.50 and get the 25A, 12AWG version.

 

[NewSc2]

The ones I picked up were $1.50 but I believe rated for 14AWG. I will go back and pick up the 12AWG ones, and yes, I am using the side-screw kinds, all that I've found so far are the push-in variety.

I have a feeling I'm overlooking an outlet somewhere, and will go through and double check all the random outlets that I might have glossed over (garage, etc.). I hope there aren't any located inside any of our walk-in closets. Our home was built in the 70's I believe, so things aren't exactly new, but not old either.

 

[NewSc2]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: NewSc2

Question: Would the first (dead) outlet on this line run a 120volt current?

>_M (that's a brain melt face -- 120Volt "current", lol)

To answer your question, no, you wouldn't necessarily see 120V at the dead outlet.

Sorry =X. Chem major here, didn't do very well in my EM Physics course.

 

[Modelworks]

You should probably call a electrician as I don't recommend this to anyone who isn't sure what they are doing. You can easily be killed.
Find out which breaker powers the circuit.
Put the main breaker in the off position. Usually 200A
Remove the breaker box cover.
Inspect everything for anything that doesn't belong.
Put the main breaker in the on position.
Measure the voltage from the screw on the breaker to that circuit and neutral.

If the voltage is correct then turn off the breaker for that circuit and open the first wall outlet on the circuit.
Disconnect all wires from the outlet.
Turn back on the breaker and measure the voltage at the wires, repeat down the wall.


And for safety, keep one hand in your pocket at all times.

 

[SJP0tato]

You might have a "leg" out (one of the two 120v inputs from the utility pole outside). Only one working and the other intermittent or gone can cause odd issues like you're having. Especially where you test it and sometimes it's fine and other times the same outlets with the same load aren't.

Call the power company and have them dispatch a tech to check the legs running to the house from the pole. Last time I did this they begrudgingly sent out a tech, and when he got up there he came back down and said it was likely the 3-4 houses around mine getting power from the same source were having problems as well. In my case voltage would fluctuate anywhere from 120VAC to 90VAC, sometimes dozens of times a second which sent my UPS/battery backup into a frenzy trying to figure out if it should be charging or backing up power.

 

[DrPizza]

Since you're getting a low voltage, I'd suspect, as everyone above has, a bad connection. In addition to checking the voltage with your multimeter between the hot & neutral, you should also check the voltage between the hot & ground. If these are the same, it's a hot somewhere that has a poor connection. If you suddenly discover that you've got 115V between hot & ground, then your neutral has a bad connection somewhere.

Your loose connection could be in the breaker box, or in any of the outlets. As you've mentioned the back wiring, you're apparently aware that the push in connectors suck. They're the worse invention ever. It forms a very poor connection, one more susceptible to corrosion problems, and one which can be a cause of extra resistance on a circuit.

It's been said, but it's worth repeating:
Turn off the breaker that goes to the circuit that's bad.
THEN check EVERY outlet in the house, including in walk-in closets. Turn the breaker back on & check the outlets that were off. Odds are, you're going to find an outlet that works that is on the circuit. One of these outlets is the likely culprit (since you've checked all the bad outlets already.): It probably has a corroded or loose connection to the rest of the circuit.

Good luck. You also haven't said what type of construction the house has. Can you trace the wiring in the basement? Or, can you at least trace the wire from the breaker outward to at least give you a rough idea of where the first outlet is?

Incidentally, this is why I prefer 1 room = 1 circuit when I wire. Even if it does take a little more time and a little more wire, and a few more circuits. Anyone can figure it out if there's ever a problem. And, of course, kitchen = multiple circuits; 1 for DW, GD, plus 3 others. Nothing sucks more than trying to use multiple electric appliances & tripping a breaker. i.e. coffee maker, electric gridle, mixer to mix the pancake batter, toaster... It's not even 10 extra minutes of work to run an extra circuit (exclusive of the time it takes to install the outlets, which you're going to do anyway) and it's only a few more dollars for wire.

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
And for safety, keep one hand in your pocket at all times.

Are you a military guy?

A guy at work does this instinctively. He said he picked it up working on electric panels in the Navy for 10 years.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: edro

Originally posted by: Modelworks
And for safety, keep one hand in your pocket at all times.

Are you a military guy?

A guy at work does this instinctively. He said he picked it up working on electric panels in the Navy for 10 years.

I do that too whenever I'm working in a live breaker box. My father-in-law thought he knew what he was doing, thought the hexagonal screw in my old fusebox was a ground screw, because ground screws are hexagonal... :roll: I didn't notice. That means he had a long, bare copper ground wire connected to a terminal that was fused by a 40 or 50 amp fuse - the old kind that take a second or two to blow. It was only a matter of time before my screwdriver met that wire while tightening down another screw. BZZZZZZTTTTTPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTT. That was the end of a few inches of copper wire - vaporized. That was the end of that screwdriver - melted in half. One hand in the pocket; no accidental complete circuit for me by being in contact with ground though.

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: edro

Originally posted by: Modelworks
And for safety, keep one hand in your pocket at all times.

Are you a military guy?

A guy at work does this instinctively. He said he picked it up working on electric panels in the Navy for 10 years.

Thats not a military rule thats a power rule I wish I could see the house there may be more involed.... example garbage disposal, fire alarm ect. If you dont know the maping of the home sometimes it can get tough.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: edro

Originally posted by: Modelworks
And for safety, keep one hand in your pocket at all times.

Are you a military guy?

A guy at work does this instinctively. He said he picked it up working on electric panels in the Navy for 10 years.

I was in the Navy but not where I learned it.
A guy near me when I was about 12 got me interested in electronics. He was a ham radio guy in his late 70's. Showed me all kinds of stuff like that. Helped me build radios out of coffee cans, and lighting neon lights with tesla coils. The man was a wealth of knowledge, but always put safety first.

 

[NewSc2]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Since you're getting a low voltage, I'd suspect, as everyone above has, a bad connection. In addition to checking the voltage with your multimeter between the hot & neutral, you should also check the voltage between the hot & ground. If these are the same, it's a hot somewhere that has a poor connection. If you suddenly discover that you've got 115V between hot & ground, then your neutral has a bad connection somewhere.

Your loose connection could be in the breaker box, or in any of the outlets. As you've mentioned the back wiring, you're apparently aware that the push in connectors suck. They're the worse invention ever. It forms a very poor connection, one more susceptible to corrosion problems, and one which can be a cause of extra resistance on a circuit.

It's been said, but it's worth repeating:
Turn off the breaker that goes to the circuit that's bad.
THEN check EVERY outlet in the house, including in walk-in closets. Turn the breaker back on & check the outlets that were off. Odds are, you're going to find an outlet that works that is on the circuit. One of these outlets is the likely culprit (since you've checked all the bad outlets already.): It probably has a corroded or loose connection to the rest of the circuit.

Good luck. You also haven't said what type of construction the house has. Can you trace the wiring in the basement? Or, can you at least trace the wire from the breaker outward to at least give you a rough idea of where the first outlet is?

Thanks, I'll test the hot vs. ground, hadn't done so yet. When I get home I will check every outlet, too.

We don't have a basement. I don't think there's any way for me to trace the line from the breaker, either.