home entertainment system

[John]

<< $600.00 on Cables is just outrageous IMHO. Saving $$ any place I possibly can is my mantra. >>



Outrageous? Not if you were wiring up a complete home theater like I did. I could have easily spent 1000+ on cables but chose not to. I would rather purchase better speakers or a more robust receiver.

Hitachi 53" 16:9 HDTV
Denon 3802
JVC SA70BK Progressive DVD player
JVC Hi Fi VCR
Sony 5 CD Changer
Hughes HDTV receiver w/ oval dish & DirecTV
Klipsch Reference 3 II's - fronts, center, surrounds
SVS 16-46PC

600.00 to completely wire the equipment listed above was not "outrageous".

 

[Workin']

<< 600.00 to completely wire the equipment listed above was not "outrageous". >>

It was only outrageous if you are rational and believe in science. If you believe in magic or don't know much about short-haul audio-frequency signal propogation then it was a bargain. Or if the price included installation by someone else and 90% of that money was used to pay them. And they had to go inside walls and under floors. But I am sure the wires look nice, if anyone can even see them behind all that stuff.

Didn't most of that equipment come with the appropriate cables? There isn't anything magical about wires. THERE HAS NOT BEEN EVEN ONE SCIENTIFICALLY VALID TEST that shows a difference between "regular" cables and ANY kind of "designer" or "premium" cables. NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF. It's all marketing hype, voodoo, and junk science. But it's a free country and if you think that they sound better then I guess that's fine with me. People have all sorts of delusions and believe all sorts of weird things. Just because something sounds plausible doesn't mean that it is true.

There was a huge "magic wire" thread here a few months ago - The "anti-magic wire" group offered many reports, studies, and detailed theoretical analyses by respected scientists and audio clubs that disproved the supposed effect of cables; the only "proof" the wire junkies could offer was that it sounded better to them under uncontrolled circumstances. Hardly the way to prove anything.

I think we've swerved sufficiently off-topic Sorry.

 

[erub]

$600 for wiring?!?! I can think of many ways I'd rather spend that money. But this is a free country, and that's how much you want to pay, go for it. Keep our economy floating

 

[Raincity]

Workin, Cheap generic AV cables lack the proper shielding. I am no fan of the overpriced Monster cables, but I also like Acoustic Research cables myself for value for price. Only way to get a good cable cheaper would be for me to buy the Belkin cable and connections myself and drag out the 100 watt soldering gun and do it myself.

Rain

 

[Patryn]

$600 for wire is nothing. $600 for one cable isn't even that much when you get into the upper end of the equipment range.

As for "<< Most people spend $200 on just the cables alone. >>

Not people with functioning brains or any real (as opposed to "marketing") knowledge of electricity and signal transmission"

I suppose that means the salesman at my local high-end store, the one with a Masters in Electrical Engineering, has no clue and just guessed his way through school.

Everyone is fully entitled to thier own opinion. Mine is that cables make a huge difference. I've experienced it first hand so I believe. If you don't, great! Just leave me to my beliefs.

As to the original topice, as most people have said you aren't going to get much for that price. Maybe look for a closeout receiver. Speakers are going to be hell at that price point. Seriously think about saving up a little longer and getting something fitting for a HDTV.

 

[kgraeme]

For speakers, my favorite brand is Paradigm. They are "entry level" audiophile speakers, but that's just because of the price. In audio enthusiast magazines they have been favorably reviewed in comparison to speakers costing 10x as much.

To find Paradigm, you'll need to find a local dealer. Their web site has a dealer search.

 

[DieHardware]

I for the most part agree with RanDum72...

<<
Hhmmm... $400 CAN get you somewhere with decent speakers. Polk R10's are $80 a pair at Circuit City so 4 is $160. The matching center (CS175i) is around $120-
140 so thats $300. You can get a KLH sub ( 10 incher with 120 watt amp) off Costco for $99. A Pioneer DD/DTS receiver (100w x 5) is $199, also at Costco.
Total is $600 +tax. >>

...but if your HDTV is a RPTV you could nix the CS175i and buy a third pair of R10s(since the center will be far enough away from the tubes) for 6.1 channel sound. Oh and if you have a good collection of movies on video make sure the receiver has ProLogic II. BTW you'll be happier in the years to come if you increase your budget and buy a better sub(HSU).

 

[Workin']

<< Cheap generic AV cables lack the proper shielding. >>

RCA cables are inherently shielded by virtue of their construction. Additional shielding adds nothing.

<< Just leave me to my beliefs. >>

Fine, just don't pass your beliefs off as "facts".

<< I suppose that means the salesman at my local high-end store, the one with a Masters in Electrical Engineering, has no clue and just guessed his way through school. >>

No, I suppose he isn't biased at all, either. Let's see, what do you think the odds are that he would be willing to admit in any way, shape or form that $5 cable from Radio Shack are as good as his fancy cables? The guy's gotta eat, and he couldn't do that if he sent all the sales of his highest profit margin items to discount stores, could he? Don't be so gullible, McFly!

Believe what you want, but you might as well believe in Santa Claus, too, because he's just as real.

 

[dingdongdingdong]

"One word: BOSE "
me four words bose suck big time
why cost they are master mind in marketing. but bose product not good at they said. so = over price dude

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Hey Workin, so your saying that some crappy ass 22 guage cable is gonna sound the same as some nice 12 guage cable? Are you an idiot? There is a good reason why audiophiles buy such expensive cable, and that is because the higher up you go in audio equipment, the more transparent the sound has to be. Thus, you cannot have any interference or any outside noise coming in, and those high quality cables deliver that extra amount of quality that the audiophiles crave. You really don't know jack and you are talkin out of your ASS.

 

[Pariah]

The initial poster is looking to spend no more than $400 on speakers, receiver, and cables. Why on earth are you guys arguing about $600+ cables in his thread?

 

[Workin']

<< The initial poster is looking to spend no more than $400 on speakers, receiver, and cables. Why on earth are you guys arguing about $600+ cables in his thread? >>

Because it's fun! And educational! See THIS.

 

[Workin']

<< Hey Workin, so your saying that some crappy ass 22 guage cable is gonna sound the same as some nice 12 guage cable? Are you an idiot? There is a good reason why audiophiles buy such expensive cable, and that is because the higher up you go in audio equipment, the more transparent the sound has to be. Thus, you cannot have any interference or any outside noise coming in, and those high quality cables deliver that extra amount of quality that the audiophiles crave. You really don't know jack and you are talkin out of your ASS. >>

Yes, I am saying that and you are the one doing the ass-talking. Tests prove there is no difference. Here's one. Show me ANY test that proves wires make a difference - you can't, because they don't! You're so stupid you don't even know what you don't know. You are a gullible moron and don't know anything, so you just insult me instead of presenting any kinds of facts to back up your position. BTW, I know audiophiles who think that putting cinder blocks on top of their amplifier makes it sound better, and spend tons of money on all kinds of weird stuff. So much for what audiophiles crave. 'nuff said.

 

[kgraeme]

Gotta agree with Workin' on this. To quote John Dunlavy:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The relatively inexpensive, top-of-the-line Radio Shack zip-cord is a shinning example of an excellent performing, low-capacitance cable (typically about 15 pF/ft.) that is very, very affordable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Dunlavy of Dunlavy Audio Labs, makers of some of the world's best speakers. Some of their speakers are in the $25,000 range. Do you think if it mattered that he would want his speaker's matched with bad wire?

The best post from this discussion though:



<< The initial poster is looking to spend no more than $400 on speakers, receiver, and cables. Why on earth are you guys arguing about $600+ cables in his thread? >>

 

[randypj]

Workin', was that green magic marker I was supposed to apply to my cds? And, does it go on the outside edge, or near the inner track?

You guys are so funny with your wireses. Heheh......
--Randy

 

[Workin']

<< was that green magic marker I was supposed to apply to my cds? And, does it go on the outside edge, or near the inner track? >>

Hey Randy, how's it going? Don't foget to use a green highliter, a regular green marker doesn't focus the the stray laser partilces properly! And it sounds twice as good if you put it on the inner and outer edges Don't even get 'em started...

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

workin you are an absolute idiot. To prove myself correct i hooked up my paradigm studios with some older 22 guage wiring that i had laying around. Played some tracks, and the sound was a little lifeless to say the least. I put back my 12 gauge Home depot wiring and VOILA, what a massive difference. And all i did was change the wiring. It is like going from the geforce 1 to a gf2 ultra. There is a very specific reason why high quality wiring sells, and if cheapo 22 guage wiring delivered the same performance, WE WOULD ALL BE USING IT. Obviously it DOESNT, and that is why we use lower guage higher quality wiring with our high end equipment. It's like filling your Porsche 911 turbo with 87 gas when you should be puttin in the premium 91 stuff.

 

[usas]

The size or guage of the wiring does matter, as the higher the guage the more signal lost per foot. But it does not matter who makes the wire, getting 12 guage cheap wire from some unknown source would work.

 

[DieHardware]

I wouldn't use $0.10/ft 20 guage lampcord with my $800 receiver, same as I wouldn't use $500/ft KimberKable, but Sudheer look at the guage/quality wire used inside one of your Paradigms, dollars to donuts its not 12 guage Monster Cable.

 

[Workin']

Sudheer Anne you are a fool and deserve to be ripped off by anyone you deal with. Once the basic current carrying capacity and voltage drop needs are met the wire doesn't make any difference whatsoever. 22 ga. would be fine up to about 12 feet, and 16 ga. is plenty for a speaker run up to 50 feet. Obviously you did not read the test I linked to, which PROVES there is no difference between 16 ga. lamp cord and $1000 cables. The "test" you did is completely meaningless for about 1 dozen reasons - the psychoacoustics involved make the kind of comparison you did completely irrelevant. You had ZERO control, your "results" are no more valid than a fisherman talking about the one that got away. Are you 12 and does daddy know you are playing with his stuff?

The very specific reason why "high quality" wiring sells is because very few people take the time to understand the issues involved and so believe whatever the marketing department says. If you took the time to actually learn anything instead of opening the pie-hole you have for a mouth and spouting nonsense you might not be a total retard. Your ignorance is surpassed only by your rudeness.

I've proven my case with facts and valid testing. Unless someone points us to an independent test performed by an audio manufacturer (other than cables, obviously) or audio magazine or website that contradicts my position, you have no ground on which to stand. If you can find such a review, I will post a thread saying how wrong I have been. Until then, shut the &%$# up.

 

[jteef]

Rod Elliott over at ESP has some pretty good articles on audio wiring...a good read for all those interested.

http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm

and

http://sound.westhost.com/cablewhitepaper.htm

Speaker cable can indeed make a difference. A lot of the exotic cables that claim to minimize inductance are not the best to use with a lot of audio equipment. When you minimize inductance in a cable, you maximize capacitance. Some amplifiers(cheap and expensive) will oscillate with even small capacitive loads leading to the destruction of the output transistors.

With interconnects, look for something with good sturdy connectors, flexible wire, and shielding if you live in areas with a lot of RFI/EMI. At school, my dorm room was about 200 feet from the campus radio tower... At times it seemed like the radio was playing louder through my speakers than the CD i was actually playing.

To the original author... $400 is a very thin budget for 5.1 sound and video. If you are looking to save money and have a lot of time on your hands, you could try learning to build the stuff yourself. You could probably build reasonable speakers for about 30-50 dollars each that would sound much better than anything else in that price range.

I would tell you to try to build your own amplifiers as well, except I don't think you'd save enough money due to the need of a 5.1 decoder. If you can find an inexpensive dvd player that has a built in DD decoder, then National Semiconductor makes 50+ watt IC's that can make a really nice sound inexpensively. $20-25 / channel would be reasonable if you found a good deal on capacitors and a transformer.

if 400 is a firm budget, I would just do like other have suggested and get one of the HT in a box setups. Go to best buy or circuit city and look for the one that has the features you want. Then search around for a good deal.

jt

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

jteef just proved ur retarded ass wrong.

 

[kgraeme]

<< jteef just proved ur retarded ass wrong. >>



Um, no.

The whitepaper linked says:



<< It is presented here as a public service - the hi-fi fraternity needs to be aware that a great deal (the vast majority - OK, all) of the hype about "cable sound" is pure, simple, and unadulterated bulls**t! >>


and


<< If you have vast amounts of money and want to impress your friends with your $5,000 speaker leads, then far be it from me to deny you this (dubious) pleasure. However, if you are like most of us, and don't have that sort of money to throw around frivolously, then don't for an instant think that you are missing out on musical "Nirvana", because it just isn't true. As I have suggested before, make your own leads, and use the money to buy more music! This is infinitely more satisfying in the long run. >>



Which, I believe, is Workin's point.

Ultimately, it only goes to prove that fluxquantam, who started this thread, doesn't need to spend lots of money on wire.

 

[d1abolic]

I'm pretty sure that the only way you can get decent sound for that much is to buy an Energy Take 5.2 (if it fits) or take 5.1 (if not) system. Of course you would also have to spend at the very very very VERRRYYY least $350 on a receiver.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

NO kgraeme. My point is that some POS cheapo 22 guage crappy low end speaker cable that you buy is not going to sound the same as HIGH QUALITY WIRING or even decent 12 guage wiring. I'm not comparing decent wiring to super expensive, i'm comparing pos crap wiring to decent wiring. And there is a BIG difference between the two