home entertainment system

[Workin']

<< the only reason i keep participating here is because it's mildly amusing to watch what you post >>

Likewise. And I would much prefer to have a friendly discussion, as I am sure most others would, as well.

<< Also you seemed to skip over my link to audioreviews where there's hundreds of consumer reviews. >>

I didn't skip over it. But you seemed to skip over the distinction between reviews and comparisons and testing validity. I'll bet you 100 billion dollars that the consumer reviews were NOT double-blind comparisons. And if you're in college (non-janitorial ) I'm sure you can understand the not-so-fine line between those distinctions.

<< I'd just rather spend my time on other subjects >>

So then maybe you should consider getting a life? Because I can't understand why you'd be interested in things that I'm not. Although at the moment it may not seem like it, wire is not my life. The pursuit of truth is. haha

<< that's an overblown comparison. >>

Glad you caught that. It was supposed to be.

<< i have more than a boombox >>

That was supposed to be an ironic joke. Oh well, I guess it fell flat.

<< i'll probably end up in something more than janitorial work considering i'm in college right now >>

Let's hope so. Otherwise just think of the wire you could have bought with all that tuition money (that's another joke)

<< point being not all cables are equal >>

Right. Some cost a lot more than others. Sorry, couldn't resist...

BTW, I read the magazines, and the technical editor of the one I trust the most because their reviews are the least subjective (Ian Masters at Stereo Review) regularly states the cables make no difference. It seems like someone writes in with that question every other month or so. Additionally, Julian Hirsch - one of the original audio gurus, generally regarded as being beyond reproach and of the highest integrity - is of the same view.

But I don't care what they say - my statements are based on more than just what somebody else says. I've had high-quality sound equipment since 1977, was an electronics technician for several years, worked for a high-end amplifier manufacturer for several years after I got my EET degree, and have also received special training in audio and radio frequency signal propagation and transmission. Much of what I do now is designing fiber-optic communications systems. So I think I can safely say that I have a pretty good grasp of what I am talking about. But I would rather have my argument stand on it's own merits rather than trying to prop it up with my qualifications.

<edit> OMG, wires ARE a big part of my life. Kids, don't let this happen to you. Unless you want to make lots of money. The key isn't knowing about wires. The key is knowing what to do with them. Unfortunately the first is part of the second...

 

[virtuamike]

With $400 you're on a budget, and as such you should avoid buying everything all at once, you just can't afford anything that will make you happy. Here's what I'd do:

1. Buy a receiver. Don't get some junky JVC, Kenwood, Sony crud. Spend the money on a decent high-current design receiver. Some good companies to start with are Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, and Harmon Kardon. Make sure you get it with Dolby Digital and DTS decoding. With high-current you don't need all that much power, 70Wx5 will be more than enough to get you started. Look on ebay, shouldn't be too hard to score something good for around $250 shipped.

2. Get some front speakers. Again stay away from the junky brands, good speakers to start out with are Paradigm and Energy. You don't need anything super huge, a bookshelf with 5" woofer and rated to 125W will be enough to get you started. What you want is the best sounding speaker you can get at this price, not the one that puts out the most bass. Go for clarity and smoothness. The fronts will probably set you back $150 at the very least.

At this point your money is all used up. Go buy some cheapo 16 guage Radio Shack speaker cable, plug everything up, and enjoy what you have. When you can get some more money together, get either a center channel or a subwoofer. Depends on what you'll be using your system for. If it's home theater and you watch a lot of movies, get the center channel, it's the most important speaker in your setup. If you listen to a lot of music, buy a sub so you don't have to driver your fronts as hard, plus you'll get the low end you've been missing. Expect to spend $250 for a decent center channel or 10" sub. Then when you save up some more, buy what you're missing to complete your system. If you bought the sub at stage 2, then buy the center channel at stage 3 or vice versa. Lastly spring for some good fronts, move your bookshelf speakers to the rear, and you'll be set with your 5.1 setup. Better to take the time and buy quality parts then to settle for some junky $400 all-in-one setup, you'll appreciate each part you buy a lot more. BTW here's the setup I have, it's set me back $800 and it's a work in progress, but it sounds a lot better than any $400 package I've seen put together:

($320) Yamaha RXV-595a receiver (I bought this brand new 2 years ago, they're around $200 now)
($120) Energy EXL-16 fronts
($220) Energy AC-300 center (splurged on this one, it sounds so good it makes all the other speakers sound bad)
($120) JBL 10" 100W sub (dunno the model and don't care, it's just something to hold me over)
(nada) el cheapo JCV bookshelf speakers for rear, took them from my old stereo

 

[Grinchy]

The wire debate is killing me! Workin', good job and keep to yer guns. My favorite is Monster Cable Optical Cable. It is fiber, as long as it isn't physically broken, what goes in will come out the other end! Hilarious.

Inexpensive HT setup here, www.partsexpress.com, search for Teac. $200. It will in no way hold you back from upgrading, but the speakers at least look nice and sound ok for what you spend.

Like mentioned above, consider building your speakers. I'm building some 1/4 wave cabinets now for some full-ranges scavenged from my car. Cost will be under $50, and I expect they will make wonderful speakers. Many tube amp lovers like 'em, and their taste is much more refined then mine. If I had to buy drivers, they go for $25 each.

A proper center channel and sub will increase your experience exponentially, spend the bulk of your money here.

 

[Workin']

virtuamike, that's good advice for fluxquantum.

 

[Zebo]

Grinchy- You should have seen the wire debate post about 3-4 months back. It's lost now, well I couldn?t find it, but that one got really funny. Workin' and others were continually body slamming the wire fairies and they kept a commin' to post their anecdotal evidence over 200 posts to that thread. It was absolutely marvelous.

 

[Zebo]

Good ideas Viperoni and VirtualMike.

 

[Mister T]

I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading all of workin's posts... way to stick to your guns

 

[Murphyrulez]

I bought 4 Klipsch surround speakers and a Klipsch center channel from Ubid.com. Total cost = $250. Bought a 120 watt sony 12" sub =$150. Onkyo receiver with DTS, and built in DVD player = $270.

Ouch. I'm over by $270. But look for the Onkyo, it's a good receiver with the DVD built in, can't go wrong there...

Anyways... I think my HDTV system sounds pretty good. Ask my wife.

Paul

<edit> Oh yeah, and my cable cost is maybe $20??? I use the cables that came with the components, and got a roll of 16 gauge speaker wire at Home Depot. My ears must be pretty bad to filter out all the horrible artifacts I can't hear from using sub-par cables...

</edit>

 

[Workin']

<< You should have seen the wire debate post about 3-4 months back. >>

That was a doozey! I couldn't find it either, it would have saved me a helluva lot of typing!

Carbonyl, grinchy, Mister T, thanks for egging me on. Spread the knowledge! At least a few people aren't afraid of the truth.

 

[ImTyping]

<< Denon Avr2802, Paradigm Monitor 3's and cc-170 for the fronts, Paradigm 8 inch sub, and Infinity bookshelf speakers for the back. Total cost: $1250. >>

--My system, btw.

Another option: Sell the HDTV, get a Wega and a nice sound system. The quality of the picture might be a little less but the entire home theater experience will be enhanced greatly.

 

[kgraeme]

On topic:

You know, I get the feeling that fluxquantum hasn't read this thread in a while. Can't blame him really. He asks what to buy on a budget and people tell him he can't. That's not really true. You can go to BB and pick up a hometheater-in-a-box for $400 and plug it in. Is it great? no. Will it really match an HDTV? No. But that's just it. He couldn't afford the HDTV, but he's looking for some semblance of surround sound to go with it.

I think this topic is effectively dead for fluxquantum.

On wire:

I've made posts backing up Workin' on how cheap speaker wire is fine. I just want to say for the record that I base that more on my belief in double-blind tests. I haven't listened to many brands of expensive wire because I choose to spend my money on other things. The double-blind tests only give me rationalized justification in saving my money, but I admit that I don't have the full, first-hand experience. Scientific method just works better for me than anecdotes and opinions.

I also want to point out that the wire argument really only holds water when talking about speaker wire because the signal requirements of speaker wire are relatively low. OTOH, I CAN say that using a Monster S-Video cable instead of Radio Shack S-Video got rid of a ghosting problem I was having.

 

[kgraeme]

<< Denon Avr2802, Paradigm Monitor 3's and cc-170 for the fronts, Paradigm 8 inch sub, and Infinity bookshelf speakers for the back. Total cost: $1250. >>



That's pretty close to my setup. And it's eerily similar to that of a friend of mine. The only difference is that he has an HK receiver instead of Denon.