Home Improvement: Asbestos

[Saint Nick]

I'm remodeling my upstairs. Before I get too carried away, I was going to have my current insulation tested for asbestos. The home was built in 1926 -- do I even need to worry about it or should I get it tested to be safe? A few resources I've found said asbestos wasn't heavily used until between the 30s and 60s.

 

[IronWing]

I'd get it tested. If it ain't asbestos then having verification can be handy if you ever sell the place.

 

[lxskllr]

I'd get it tested. If it ain't asbestos then having verification can be handy if you ever sell the place.

Could also work against him since he'd be obligated to disclose it. If he doesn't know...

 

[Greenman]

Lead paint is also an issue in a house that old. I'd be surprised if you didn't have it somewhere.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Best to play it safe. Get it tested, or treat everything like it's asbestos. Wear a mask, and try to wet everything to keep the dust down. Depending on how big you are going you may even want to seal off and make a "quarantine" zone so to speak. Shower on the way out and leave suit inside etc.

Considering people worked with asbestos for all these years it's not THAT bad, but it is proven to cause issues in large quantities so best to play things safe and overdo safety. Same with mold.

One thing that helps is when tearing down anything is try to keep everything in as big of pieces as you can. It may take longer and not be as fun as taking a hammer to it, but it reduces dust. When I took down the drywall in my basement to redo it I was taking it out in large chunks which minimized dust and made it easier to carry out, but it did take like 10x longer than if I just took a crow bar or hammer to it.

 

[velillen]

Get it tested. If it is positive just stop and hire an abatement company to do it for you. They have the equipment and permits to deal with it safely.

Sure you can do it yourself but do you have the HEPA vacs, respirators, sack suits, proper bags, ect to do it? let alone feel confident that you can keep it all clean cause if you dont you've just exposed your whole family. Companies have to test and do air sampling before they release abatement areas (least where i live)


Asbestos is one thing ill never deal with my self. I have to do abatement at works and that can be annoying but its still 100x easier than home abatement.

 

[Greenman]

Best to play it safe. Get it tested, or treat everything like it's asbestos. Wear a mask, and try to wet everything to keep the dust down. Depending on how big you are going you may even want to seal off and make a "quarantine" zone so to speak. Shower on the way out and leave suit inside etc.

Considering people worked with asbestos for all these years it's not THAT bad, but it is proven to cause issues in large quantities so best to play things safe and overdo safety. Same with mold.

One thing that helps is when tearing down anything is try to keep everything in as big of pieces as you can. It may take longer and not be as fun as taking a hammer to it, but it reduces dust. When I took down the drywall in my basement to redo it I was taking it out in large chunks which minimized dust and made it easier to carry out, but it did take like 10x longer than if I just took a crow bar or hammer to it.

You aren't supposed to do your own asbestos abatement in the USA. There is the second problem of what to do with the hazardous material when he's done. If he loads it in a dumpster and has it hauled to the dump, that's a felony. If he loads it in his truck and takes it to the dump that's two different felony's. Those can get expensive.

 

[dullard]

You aren't supposed to do your own asbestos abatement in the USA. There is the second problem of what to do with the hazardous material when he's done. If he loads it in a dumpster and has it hauled to the dump, that's a felony. If he loads it in his truck and takes it to the dump that's two different felony's. Those can get expensive.

This isn't true. In my city, you take it to the dump and specify that it is asbestos. They charge a dollar more and tell you to put it in the special asbestos area. No laws against it at all.

Asbestos is way overworried about. It has almost zero chance of harming you. At the very worst, there is a slight uptick in rare cancers from people who breathe it in daily during work (mining, manufacturing, etc) and only then if they are also a heavy smoker. Anyone else is fine with occasional exposure. Just wear a dust mask, wet it down, and report it as asbestos when you dump it. You'll be just fine.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp61.pdf
"Asbestos-related lung diseases (malignant and nonmalignant) or signs of these diseases have been reported in groups of occupationally exposed humans with cumulative exposures ranging from about 5 to 1,200 f-yr/mL. Such cumulative exposures would result from 40 years of occupational exposure to concentrations ranging from 0.125 to 30 f/mL. Currently, U.S. OSHA regulations require that workplace air concentrations of asbestos not exceed 0.1 f/mL. Exposures of this magnitude are usually not encountered by the general public... 　
Although there is considerable uncertainty in the estimates, EPA calculated, using a linear, no-threshold model, that lifetime exposure to asbestos dust containing 0.0001 fibers >5 μm in length per mL of air could result in about 2–4 excess cancer deaths (lung cancer plus mesothelioma) per 100,000 people."

In other words, you'd need 40+ years of exposure above the OSHA asbestos regulations to begin to have a chance of possibly having a higher incidence of an already rare disease. In numbers: after 40+ years of heavy exposure you have up to a 0.004% additional chance of death.

 

[Mixolydian]

This isn't true. In my city, you take it to the dump and specify that it is asbestos.

LOL where the hell is this??

 

[Red Squirrel]

You aren't supposed to do your own asbestos abatement in the USA. There is the second problem of what to do with the hazardous material when he's done. If he loads it in a dumpster and has it hauled to the dump, that's a felony. If he loads it in his truck and takes it to the dump that's two different felony's. Those can get expensive.

That's why you only DIY if you don't get it tested. There's some plausible deniability to go by. Then again probably wont get you far anyway. Sadly everything in the US is to ensure that big companies get their money, in this case, abatement companies that will do the same thing you would, but for 50 grand.

Do US dumps test stuff when you go to dump it though? I know here in my city they just do a quick glance at your stuff and let you go through.

Suppose if it's just insulation you could just stuff it in the attic on top of the existing insulation, preferably in plastic bags.

 

[alkemyst]

Could also work against him since he'd be obligated to disclose it. If he doesn't know...

Many people would rather fix things and spend the money to do so. I know spending money sucks to you, but this is serious.

 

[velillen]

You aren't supposed to do your own asbestos abatement in the USA. There is the second problem of what to do with the hazardous material when he's done. If he loads it in a dumpster and has it hauled to the dump, that's a felony. If he loads it in his truck and takes it to the dump that's two different felony's. Those can get expensive.

Just have to look at laws in your area. For my area the home owner can do it by they have to follow guidelines and file for a permit and some other stuff.

And seriously dont use a dust mask. m=Might as well wear nothing if you do. Get a respirator with hepa filters.

 

[alkemyst]

That's why you only DIY if you don't get it tested. There's some plausible deniability to go by. Then again probably wont get you far anyway. Sadly everything in the US is to ensure that big companies get their money, in this case, abatement companies that will do the same thing you would, but for 50 grand.

Do US dumps test stuff when you go to dump it though? I know here in my city they just do a quick glance at your stuff and let you go through.

Suppose if it's just insulation you could just stuff it in the attic on top of the existing insulation, preferably in plastic bags.

No.

Bring down a fucking asbestos filled building/dwelling when you are in full gear, your neighbors get screwed.

 

[Humpy]

My area has no permit or notification requirements for a homeowner to remove asbestos. Disposal is double bagging, labeled, and brought to the main landfill.

A host of rules kick in for commercial and public buildings.

 

[Saint Nick]

Yeah, I think I'm just going to wait to get it tested. The upstairs has drywall underneath from the 60s or so, but in the 70s they put wood paneling over it. We ripped all the wood paneling off, as well as most of the trim, but I didn't want to go crazy and start knocking out the old dry wall and insulation. Better safe than sorry.

My question now is: How can you trust a company to do this work? If you don't know if you have asbestos, and you need someone to test it, how do you know they won't just say you have asbestos so they can get paid?

 

[teejee]

Asbestos is only dangerous after long term exposure, so no issues to do it yourself. In sweden it is legal to do it yourself, but there us an extra disposal cost. And the safety requirements for professionals are high.
Edit: you should of course use a protection mask for asbestos.

 

[velillen]

My question now is: How can you trust a company to do this work? If you don't know if you have asbestos, and you need someone to test it, how do you know they won't just say you have asbestos so they can get paid?

Make them show you the sample results. Make sure they use an accredited lab. The reports are pretty easy to read. least the ones we get (but we also have an accredited lab in house) have a line Asbestos - Yes/No and then it breaks it all down by layers for which layer actually has the asbestos in it (it the fibers, glue, dirt Oo)

Asbestos is only dangerous after long term exposure, so no issues to do it yourself.

Tell that to all the miners and other workers who were exposed for short durations but in high quantities. What would you consider ripping out a room of insulation?

 

[Thebobo]

Just takes one fibre

 

[Imp]

Not a bad idea to get it tested. There's a chance someone qualified can tell you right away what it is or isn't.

I'm in a circa-1910s house. Lucky for us, the cheap bastard owners (and us) never bothered to get anything insulated.

Lead paint is also an issue in a house that old. I'd be surprised if you didn't have it somewhere.

Unfortunately for us, there's probably a ton of lead paint in our walls. Never tested, but should be obvious.

There's a house in the neighborhood that is doing a partial gut. I walk by it twice every day to get to work. They stripped the paint down the wood on the porch -- I didn't notice until the paint was gone. Pretty sure the fuc*ers sand blasted or sanded it down and didn't bother containing it. Last I checked, laws regarding exterior paint are more lax. Thanks, assholes.

 

[master_shake_]

Just takes one fibre

wonder how many people around the WTC are going to get mesothelioma now?

 

[Brainonska511]

I've heard that if you do remove it yourself, the key is to keep it wet, as that keeps the dust down.

 

[Ken g6]

I would say asbestos is about as dangerous as fiberglass. Which either means we overreact to asbestos...or we under-react to fiberglass!

 

[phucheneh]

I would say asbestos is about as dangerous as fiberglass. Which either means we overreact to asbestos...or we under-react to fiberglass!

Fiberglass is some nasty shit. I never understood why it doesn't seem to have any popular reputation for being hazardous.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Tell that to all the miners and other workers who were exposed for short durations but in high quantities. What would you consider ripping out a room of insulation?

Miners (before proper safety measures came into place) had quite high and long exposure considering it was their job.

We're talking about a bit of insulation here. With proper precautions being used the exposure will be extremely small. Have to use common sense when working with it but it's not like you're handling nuclear waste here.

Have a sprayer handy as you work with it. Keep it wet. Seal in garbage bags.

 

[teejee]

Make them show you the sample results. Make sure they use an accredited lab. The reports are pretty easy to read. least the ones we get (but we also have an accredited lab in house) have a line Asbestos - Yes/No and then it breaks it all down by layers for which layer actually has the asbestos in it (it the fibers, glue, dirt Oo)





Tell that to all the miners and other workers who were exposed for short durations but in high quantities. What would you consider ripping out a room of insulation?

A miner is exposed everyday, that is what I call long term exposure.
But I updated my post, a DIY should of course use protection mask to minimize exposure.