Home NAS

[leegroves86]

I'm still debating on a NAS box or a closet pc based NAS. Well now i'm leaning towards home built. First, I dont' really have an old pc (ex: PIII) to use, however, I do have some spare parts to help start a build. Second, I dont' know linux and don't have time to learn. So basically it looks like i'll have to buy some cheap S939 parts and build one with XP PRO. BTW, NAS will be wired to a 10/100 router.

Here is what I'm backing up: PICTURES! (also, music and HDD images). So I need it for thousands of small files (each pic a few megabytes). Performance isn't a big deal because it wont' be accessed often, prolly more uploading to it than copying from it. There will be a XP and a Mac accessing it. NAS must be on 24/7. Now about raid... (I've never done it before)

I'll have one small (40 gig) HDD for the OS. Then seperate HDDs for the backup. Should I do raid 1 or 5? I already have 320 GB Seagate 7200.10 for a start and am willing to buy a second and possibly a third. Basically do I need a full blown hardware RAID card? One worry is I don't want windows to BSOD and make me lose my "software" raid. Also, file system must be NFTS just like my regular PC.

NAS box:

X-QPack case?
939 3000+ venice
Micro ATX mobo with X16 PCI-E for Raid
1 small HDD for OS
Multiple 320 GB HDDs for Raid
integrated video

 

[leegroves86]

P.S. If I do need a raid card then can you all reccomend one? has to be PCI-E and not PCI-X

 

[Pabster]

A Windows NAS ?

Forgive me if I laugh violently

FreeNAS will do the trick, run on an old 486, and cost you nothing. Give it a look, at least.

 

[nweaver]

repeat after me

Raid is not a backup
raid is not a backup

 

[oog]

i think he knows that RAID is not a backup; however he wants to make sure he doesn't lose his backup (everything on the NAS) due to a drive failure. i think it's relevant to the discussion.

 

[j00fek]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16816115029 might be a good card for sataII. if you do run free nas all you need is a usb flashdrive to run the os and have all your hdds for storage.

im thinking of going twoards 3x320gb sataII for more space in my nas box and might get this card i recomended, with this enclosure http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817994026, i might not even get the raid card becuase have onboard raid/sataII. its all up to you the way you want to go with a nas box.

 

[Madwand1]

Chipset RAID tends to be slow for RAID 5 writes, but then again, you've crippling it with 10/100 networking, so it's no real slowdown. So, if you need the space, go with a RAID 5 chipset MB. If you don't, RAID 1 is good. You could even keep it simple and go with JBOD/spanning.

You should budget for backup in addition if you're accumulating original data here. It could be a big external drive, another machine, or tape, etc. Sooner or later, e.g. when you want to expand your storage, or change RAID type or implementation, or need a recovery, you'll want a backup.

 

[Pabster]

Chipset RAID tends to SUCK no matter what level you're running. Such solutions are really software ones and offer neither the performance nor the reliability of a dedicated (Hardware) solution.

RAID is meant to be done with real hardware. Expensive? Yes. But if you really need RAID...

 

[Madwand1]

Chipset RAID can be just fine in some cases, and other software-assisted HW solutions can be just fine as well. But the more important thing to do in this case than whine about particular RAID implementations and OS's is to have a backup.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Chipset RAID tends to SUCK no matter what level you're running. Such solutions are really software ones and offer neither the performance nor the reliability of a dedicated (Hardware) solution.

RAID is meant to be done with real hardware. Expensive? Yes. But if you really need RAID...

md is software raid, and has fantastic performance for most stuff. all in all that "winraid" stuff is slow though.

 

[leegroves86]

well... those are interesting replys.

So to clarify. I need A NAS for fileserver AAAND Backup. It has to be accessible 24/7 and will hold backups of files on my PC. However, the files on the NAS ARE my "backup" too. I know I can get a USB external enclosure BUT that isn't available on the network 24/7 now is it...

I've already stated that I can't and won't use linux (don't have the time to learn) so that rules out FreeNAS and Clarkconnect etc.

and why is RAID not a backup?? come on, raid 1 or 5 wasn't used for performance now was it?

 

[Madwand1]

The basic question is regarding backup is -- if you lose it, could you restore it fully?

So, if your storage server only has duplicates of stuff on your other drives, it's a backup.

If it has original data on it which is not stored somewhere outside the RAID implementation, it's not a backup. It's a redundant storage system that will at best survive a single drive failure (assuming RAID 5 now) at one time, but will not do anything about a large number of other potential failures -- OS failure, controller failure, malware, user error, etc.

Note also that for some of this to be reliable, your backup should be offline most of the time and not networked. If you had some rampant malware or simple user or software error, you could wipe out your connected stuff in minutes, but couldn't touch your offline stuff unless you got even more careless.

 

[yyrkoon]

Look into SATA port multiplier technology. Theoreticly with 5 HDDs, an enclosure with PSU, SATA port multiplier, motherboard with a SIL 3132 controller, or capable PCI, or PCIE card, you can get an external RAID 5 array going much cheaper than using a dedicated system, that uses less power, and doesnt nessisarily require something like samba/Linux to share the array.

If its nessisary to share the array acrossed your network, just connect it to a XP pro (or other NT server), and share it . . .

Forgot to mention that on the local machine (the one which its connected to) it would blow any other FEASABLE option away in performance. on a 1x PCIE slot, you'd be limited 2.5Gbit throughput, and on a eSATA port from a motherboard, 3.0Gbit, which means your array could theoreticly max out a single SATAII connection.

 

[yyrkoon]

If you NEED something that plugs dirrectly into your network, you can buy a conversion adapater for IDE->ethernet for about $90. Dont remember the link, but google IDE to ethernet, and you'll be set

another option to consider, Linux, with software RAID, and Samba, which is fairly simple to setup (perhaps semi complicated if you're not familiar with Linux), but if you google, and choose a distrobution that alot of people use, and have guides for on the web, then it wont be an issue. Software RAID 0,1 should be nearly comparrible to thier hardware varients, software RAID 5 however will not. However if this is a dedicated box, connected to a network, and is used for file storage only, software RAID 5 wont be your bottleneck (assuming you stick with fast ethernet), the network will.