Home Networking - OnQ and Cat5

[testerxps8700]

I recently bought a new home, and I've noticed I have Cat5e plugs throughout the house in every room. I have an OnQ in a closet with some wiring and an ROHS Power over Cat5 unit, this is a for a Legrand Wireless Access Point hanging from my ceiling, not sure what this does and I haven't read great reviews about Legrand..

Comcast came out ran my internet through a coaxial directly into the OnQ box, the cable is connected to my Cable Modem, and I have a WiFi router currently sending a signal out.

Question, can I buy a switch/router, and use the Cat5 patches in the wall outlets throughout the house? Ideally I'd love to use the Cat5 and put a wireless router in the living room for a better signal throughout the house.

 

[imagoon]

Good old OnQ. It works.... costs significantly more than commercial stuff and seems to have niche in the residential environments where they can fleece the unknowing and provide minimally useful product.

So you have the traditional "cat5e run as phone lines" configuration. You would need to replace the OnQ panel with something like this:
http://www.homecontrols.com/On-Q-Le...nel-12-Port-OQJP12845C5E?sc=22&category=74278
and repatch the cat5e to that. From there you can use a traditional switch to run everything or buy the Legrand switch if you want one to mount in the box. Be aware you are buying a $15 switch in a $200 package if you do that though.

The PoE injector is useful on APs that support PoE as they won't require a power cable which allows ceiling installs etc.

 

[brshoemak]

I have worked with OnQ before along with similar Leviton products and imagoon is completely on point. I shouldn't have been surprised when I opened that link and saw a 12-port patch panel for $115, but I was still taken aback.

To build on what was previously mentioned, the cable labeled 'Voice In' on the OnQ panel is your incoming phone line. That would be disconnected entirely and left to hang. Then you would have to purchase that overpriced patch panel and use a punchdown tool to punch down the wires into the back of the panel - the back looks like the front of that voice panel. The wire order does matter so you should review the manual to ensure you're doing it right.

Once it's punched down, use an inexpensive cable tester to ensure that your wires are straight and not flipped or disconnected entirely on the wall side. If they are, you'll need to re-terminate (punchdown) at the wall jack in each room - although this should hopefully not be an issue. The back of the wall jacks will be color-coded but you'll want to pop the jacks out of the wall plate before you start punching cables down. Once the cables test normally, you are done with the hard part.

Once you have all CAT5E runs punched down to the patch panel you'll need a small gigabit switch. If you don't intend on adding runs you could probably get away with an 8-port switch, but you could always go with a 16-port now or later although the cost rises significantly. Don't get an OnQ brand switch, it will mount all pretty-like but will be unreliable and cost you WAY too much. A basic Trendnet 8-port gigabit switch would be fine, just get adhesive velcro and smack that thing on the back wall.

Get about 9 short CAT5E patch cables, and connect a CAT5E patch cable from the router to any port on the switch. Then use the rest of the patch cables to connect the remaining switch ports to the ports on the patch panel.

You're done at that point, you'll just need additional patch cables to run from each wall jack to your computer/laptop/etc.

btw, this wall of text makes it look about 100 harder than it really is. If you have the right tools, it should go pretty smoothly.

Note: Keep in mind that if you do this, you are removing telephone functionality from all of those rooms. My family uses cellphones for basically everything, like many do today, but if you still want a hard line phone for emergency purposes (or whatever) you could attach a corded phone to your phone line-in within your OnQ panel. You would still have to pay for service on that line though.

You'll need:

1 - Trendnet 8-port gigabit switch
1 - Punchdown Tool
9 - 2' CAT5E patch cables
1 - Cable Tester
1 - Stupidly expensive OnQ CAT5E patch panel
X - However many of whatever length CAT5E patch cables to connect your computers/laptops/etc. (go for the Flexboot ones, trust me)

 

[testerxps8700]

Thanks guys for the info! Stupid question, why do I need a patch panel at all? What if I just remove the voice panel thing, and put RJ45's on those cable ends and plug straight into a switch?

Why do I need that $115 patch panel at all? Can I go directly into a switch?

 

[imagoon]

Thanks guys for the info! Stupid question, why do I need a patch panel at all? What if I just remove the voice panel thing, and put RJ45's on those cable ends and plug straight into a switch?

Why do I need that $115 patch panel at all? Can I go directly into a switch?

Your wiring won't meet spec. Solid cables with RJ45's tend to break when moved. It's has "amateur" written all over it, it is less useful if you ever need to use a single line for something are a few reasons. You can also buy the tools and cheaper patch panel for the same price or less than the tool and RJ45 ends also. IE RJ45 ends on the cable = doing it wrong way when you could have done it the right way for the same price.

Will it work? Most likely. Do you feel like possibly needed to run through and cable test runs the next time you move the cables because the copper broke off at the rj45 end some place where you can't see it? Up to you.

I mean you can just use electrical tape rather than wire nuts to secure a outlet connection also.

I personally subscribe to the "do it right" mentality.

 

[brshoemak]

Yeah. I'm dealing with that exact situation right now. There is a facility where I do some consulting work and they have two decent sized Cisco switches and two routers sitting on top of one of those wire shelving units. All their cables come down out of 6" conduit, take and immediate left and go right into those switches with RJ45 ends. I had to test a single cable was terrified to touch anything due to past experience. It's also a medical facility so you never know what you might be disconnecting (none of the cables are labeled, because why not)

The best part is that there is a 2-post rack to the right, and I could ALMOST terminate them properly. The problem is that here is no slack (or service loops) on any of the cables.

Long story short: Eat the cost, do it right, and do it once.

Technically you COULD use a cheaper patch panel and if you mount it vertically along the side of the box you MIGHT be able to get those cables to reach, but it would look pretty ugly and you would need to leave the front panel off all the time. This is an example: Tripplite 12-port Wall Mount Patch panel

 

[azazel1024]

Your wiring won't meet spec. Solid cables with RJ45's tend to break when moved. It's has "amateur" written all over it, it is less useful if you ever need to use a single line for something are a few reasons. You can also buy the tools and cheaper patch panel for the same price or less than the tool and RJ45 ends also. IE RJ45 ends on the cable = doing it wrong way when you could have done it the right way for the same price.

Will it work? Most likely. Do you feel like possibly needed to run through and cable test runs the next time you move the cables because the copper broke off at the rj45 end some place where you can't see it? Up to you.

I mean you can just use electrical tape rather than wire nuts to secure a outlet connection also.

I personally subscribe to the "do it right" mentality.

Err, well, yes I agree on doing it right. It isn't cheaper though unless I am looking at the wrong stuff. A "cheap" patch panel is around $20, a cheap punch down tool is around $15. 8 cheap and short Cat5e cables are maybe another $10-15.

A pack of 100 RJ45 connectors and a GOOD crimping tool is around $30 total. So it is a LOT cheaper to just put RJ45 ends on them. I'd do a proper patch panel and do it right.

However, I doubt you are "moving" the cables around much, so yeah, you can just put RJ45 ends on them and forget about it for the most part. There are no mechanical stresses and no worried.

A patch cable I would not make with solid core (though I have done it in a pinch I'll admit and at home I generally make them out of solid core cable) as that is likely to see mechanical stresses. Of my own cables I have had zero break in probably 20 years of making cables and mostly making solid core cables with RJ45 ends. I do patch panels where possible, but I frankly don't ever buy stranded cat cable, so any patch cables I make are solid core. I HAVE seen a couple of solid core cables fail because of repeated stress (coiling, uncoiling, moving around, etc.), just never one of my own.

The upside to stranded is you can absolutely coil it tighter, tighter radius bends, etc. you also have more endurance for mechanical stress compared to solid core.

Solid core really only should be done with patch panels/keystones at both ends.

 

[Ichinisan]

There's a neighborhood in my town where I've literally encountered hundreds of these panels. Every one has been different. Missing power outlet, all data lines terminated as phone, terminated lines that don't work, ...the home builders usually screw-up something. Usually multiple things.

Anyway, you'll need a wired router (or wireless router) in the panel. You can't just put a switch in there because devices in each room will need to get a public IP address from Comcast. They likely have a CPE limit on the CM allowing only a single IP address. If you connect a different device to the modem, you probably have to reboot it so that other device can pull an IP address.

So, if you put a router (wired or wireless) in that panel, you want it to provide LAN addresses for your entire home network. You can't distribute WiFi very well from a big metal box, so I recommend you turn off WiFi and use it as a wired router.

Make sure you set the WiFi names and passwords before you try to convert it to AP mode. Use clear names like "Kitchen WiFi," "Basement WiFi," etc.

Optional: If you want to be able to access the settings for each router after configuring them in AP mode, I recommend making these changes *before* you configure in AP mode (preferably, configure each one while it has no incoming connection). 1) Change the DHCP starting address of each router (the primary wired router in the OnQ panel and each secondary router) so it starts with x.x.x.10 (or higher). Change the IP range for each secondary router to match the one in the OnQ panel (x.x.x.x). If the one in the OnQ panel is 192.168.1.1, configure your other routers to be 192.168.1.2, 192.168.1.3, 192.168.1.4, etc. You'll be disabling LAN DHCP for the secondary routers in the next step.

The WiFi routers you install in other rooms should be configured to behave as access points. Most do not have an option to configure an access point mode, so you can do it manually this way:

• Disable LAN DHCP
• Connect the incoming connection to one of the LAN ports

In that setup, the primary wired router in the OnQ panel will assign IP addresses via DHCP for all your LAN devices for the entire home network, regardless of which router they are connected through. Also, regardless of media type (wired/wireless). With one big local area network, devices on one access point can find devices on another. That makes it easier to share network printers, Apple TV screen mirroring / AirPlay, etc...

 

[imagoon]

Err, well, yes I agree on doing it right. It isn't cheaper though unless I am looking at the wrong stuff. A "cheap" patch panel is around $20, a cheap punch down tool is around $15. 8 cheap and short Cat5e cables are maybe another $10-15.

A pack of 100 RJ45 connectors and a GOOD crimping tool is around $30 total. So it is a LOT cheaper to just put RJ45 ends on them. I'd do a proper patch panel and do it right.

However, I doubt you are "moving" the cables around much, so yeah, you can just put RJ45 ends on them and forget about it for the most part. There are no mechanical stresses and no worried.

A patch cable I would not make with solid core (though I have done it in a pinch I'll admit and at home I generally make them out of solid core cable) as that is likely to see mechanical stresses. Of my own cables I have had zero break in probably 20 years of making cables and mostly making solid core cables with RJ45 ends. I do patch panels where possible, but I frankly don't ever buy stranded cat cable, so any patch cables I make are solid core. I HAVE seen a couple of solid core cables fail because of repeated stress (coiling, uncoiling, moving around, etc.), just never one of my own.

The upside to stranded is you can absolutely coil it tighter, tighter radius bends, etc. you also have more endurance for mechanical stress compared to solid core.

Solid core really only should be done with patch panels/keystones at both ends.

--edit--

Removed / reread post.

 

[testerxps8700]

Ok so I get this so far:

In onQ box, need to buy:

1.) Switch and redo all the wires to RJ45 Cat 5 connetors.
2.) Cable Modem from Comcast in OnQ box, connects to OnQ Switch I will buy.

So I can stick a wifi router in the living room say from the wall, and set it as an AP to distribute a signal and I'll be good?

 

[imagoon]

Ok so I get this so far:

In onQ box, need to buy:

1.) Switch and redo all the wires to RJ45 Cat 5 connetors.
2.) Cable Modem from Comcast in OnQ box, connects to OnQ Switch I will buy.

So I can stick a wifi router in the living room say from the wall, and set it as an AP to distribute a signal and I'll be good?

1.) Switch and redo all the wires to RJ45 Cat 5 connetors. Redo all cat5e cables to small patch panel.
2.) Cable Modem from Comcast in OnQ box, connects to OnQ Switch I will buy. Any switch that isn't that waste of money OnQ switch.
Fixed that for you.

 

[brshoemak]

You'll need:

1 - Trendnet 8-port gigabit switch

I stand by my original recommendation.

That OnQ switch is ~$120 which is a complete waste. Like I said before, get an inexpensive gigabit switch ($20-30), and velcro it inside the box onto the back wall.

 

[Ichinisan]

I stand by my original recommendation.

That OnQ switch is ~$120 which is a complete waste. Like I said before, get an inexpensive gigabit switch ($20-30), and velcro it inside the box onto the back wall.

Quick note:
The switch by itself would only be adequate if the modem has a built-in NAT router.

I haven't really read the OP or this thread yet!