Home wiring guru's, a ?

[runzwithsizorz]

Just bought a ceiling fan/heater,(1300 watts) for the basement bathroom. It recommends a 20amp curcuit, do I *have to* change from 14 to 12 gauge romax?

 

[tranceport]

I can't answer your question but I wouldn't sacrifice my safety.

 

[iamwiz82]

Yes, you should use 12 gauge romex for a 20 amp circuit.

 

[woowoo]

12 or 10 to be sure

 

[Rogeee]

Burn down your house

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Thanks for link Crusty, shoulda looked there first. But I have gotten conflicting info on this,(i.e Home Dept), after all, 14 gauge is good for, clotheswashers, disposals, refrigerators, dishwashers, etc, seems to me that those would draw more than a small heater. Think about it, what do you plug your 1500watt space heater into now? The existing wire for the present fan is 14 gauge. Am I to understand, that I must change the wire all the way back to the breaker box??? A while back I had help from an electical contractor on another project, and he pointed out that the breaker for the master bath should have been a 20amp rather than the 15amp,(done), BUT the wiring is still 14 gauge!, as is most of the wiring in this home, and yours as well. I want to be safe, but gee whiz, your asking me rewire the entire basement, installed by the developer, btw.

 

[Drakkon]

i think it really depends on the ammount of time you plan on running the fan. I mean if you think about it a space heater runs for what? 20-30 mins max? before you turn it off...
If your only going to run that fan/heater for short periods of time i think you are fine with 14 gauge but if you want to run it for extended periods you mgiht definately want to consider moving up to 12 gauge. The longer you run high wattage systems, the more change of wiring to heat up and fail (burn) the smaller the gauge.

 

[skyking]

If there is anything else on that circuit, you'd be playing with fire.
If it were a dedicated run, then 14AWG and a 15 amp breaker will run that unit.
Don't ever breaker a 14AWG above 15 amps.

 

[sao123]

leave it 14. burn the house down.
colllct the insurance money to build a properly wired house.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
i think it really depends on the ammount of time you plan on running the fan. I mean if you think about it a space heater runs for what? 20-30 mins max? before you turn it off...
If your only going to run that fan/heater for short periods of time i think you are fine with 14 gauge but if you want to run it for extended periods you mgiht definately want to consider moving up to 12 gauge. The longer you run high wattage systems, the more change of wiring to heat up and fail (burn) the smaller the gauge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a bathroom heater, so time would indeed be short. On the other hand my wife lets her space heater run all night, it does however have a thermostat.

 

[skyking]

Time has nothing to do with it. If you put a 20 amp breaker on a 14AWG circuit, you just made a fire starter. If there is a short or failure in that device, it will not pop the breaker before heating that wire up. If it is 12AWG, the wire can handle the full load of the breaker, and will not burn your house down. The failed device might indeed start a fire of it's own, but not the wire running through the <flammable> walls.

 

[woowoo]

14g on 20a is a no-no
Home Depot is clueless

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Originally posted by: sao123
leave it 14. burn the house down.
colllct the insurance money to build a properly wired house.

I could be wrong, but I believe 98% of all homes built in the usa are wired 14 gauge, with the exception of a couple of dedicated circuits.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
Thanks for link Crusty, shoulda looked there first. But I have gotten conflicting info on this,(i.e Home Dept), after all, 14 gauge is good for, clotheswashers, disposals, refrigerators, dishwashers, etc, seems to me that those would draw more than a small heater. Think about it, what do you plug your 1500watt space heater into now? The existing wire for the present fan is 14 gauge. Am I to understand, that I must change the wire all the way back to the breaker box??? A while back I had help from an electical contractor on another project, and he pointed out that the breaker for the master bath should have been a 20amp rather than the 15amp,(done), BUT the wiring is still 14 gauge!, as is most of the wiring in this home, and yours as well. I want to be safe, but gee whiz, your asking me rewire the entire basement, installed by the developer, btw.

An electrical contractor did this?? Put a 20A breaker on a 14GA circuit?? This is BAD. The breaker is there to protect the circuit, by putting in a bigger breaker you are allowing more current on the circuit then it can handle. PUT BACK THE 15A BREAKER ASAP. This is a real fire risk - not as bad as shoving a penny into an old style fuse socket, but not good either.

Your choices are to run a 20A circuit to this bathroom (which it should have had already), or find a smaller heater.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz

Originally posted by: sao123
leave it 14. burn the house down.
colllct the insurance money to build a properly wired house.

I could be wrong, but I believe 98% of all homes built in the usa are wired 14 gauge, with the exception of a couple of dedicated circuits.

According to code in my area one of those dedicated sircuits goes to the bathroom for running high wattage stuff like hairdryers & curling irons simultaneously. Another goes to the kitchen - actually two for the kitchen IIRC. One for the fridge, and another for appliance outlets above the counter.

When I built my addition, I ran 14 for most stuff, but there is at least one 20A outlet in each room.

 

[woowoo]

Pull a 12ga home run for the new fan.
That or take it back.

 

[cambre]

This risk isn't from a short, it's from overloading the wire. A 20A breaker will protect 14awg wire from a short, the breaker should trip before the wire is damaged. It will not protect the wire from trying to push 19A which will certainly make the wire hot.

From my experience, most lighting circuits are wired 14 while outlets get 12. A 1300W heater should only pull 11A so, if it's by itself on the circuit, 14 would be okay. As long as your house wiring is correct (your 14awg circuit has a 15A breaker), you aren't going to have any fire problems. You may just find yourself having to head down to the breaker box more often than you'd like.

 

[woowoo]

Originally posted by: cambre
A 1300W heater should only pull 11A so, if it's by itself on the circuit, 14 would be okay.

Add in the light kit.
It' 13 amps with 200 watts of lights.
Again assuming it's a home run.




Pull a new wire man......
Pull 12/4 so you can put a dimmer on it later

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

When it comes to wiring, do it right. Even if you might be able to technically squeeze that unit onto a 15 amp - 14 g circuit, you shouldn't because someone might come behind you and throw on another device with out being aware of the current load...

Even if you were willing to risk your own safety, you shouldn't consider risking the safety of people who may live in the house after you. If there is a fire, then you're wasting thousands of tax payer dollars and risking the lives of the fire fighters...

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz

Originally posted by: sao123
leave it 14. burn the house down.
colllct the insurance money to build a properly wired house.

I could be wrong, but I believe 98% of all homes built in the usa are wired 14 gauge, with the exception of a couple of dedicated circuits.

I'd say you are way off. The NEC requires 2-20a circuits for the kitchen and 1 for the laundry room. All houses i've worked on have 12ga for outlets and 14ga for lighting.

Back to the original question. Trace the circuit to see how many lights it runs. Add up wattage + 1300/120. Odds are you will not have all the lights on and the heater at the same time. The heater draws 11 amps, so you got an extra 500 watts of lighting you can run off it.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Update, I was WRONG!,(thank goodness), since the basement is only partially finished,(rec.room,& afore mentioned bath), I was able to find out that the wire to the master bath is indeed 12 gauge. The rest of the basement is wired 14 gauge, and bare minimum,(switches,& overhead lights only, but no outlets, or dry wall). My goal is to finish the rest of the basement myself with a shop, (which I knew I would have to convert to 12 gauge), a theater,
bar, bedroom, storage room, with chest freezer, and an extensive computer room. NOW, with what I'm hearing, I'm thinking i should rewire the whole darn basement.
This, BTW is my first *new* home, so I ask, why does my master bath *require* 12 gauge wire but the other full baths don't? why is there no GFI in the basement bath?(I thought this was code), not sure I like a clothes dryer vent going straight up to the roof aprox. 26 feet, and ya think I should be calling my builder?

 

[mattlear]

I re-wired my house last year and I learned alot doing it!

What's in your master bath? It could be that the bathroom outlets are all tied together, with 1 GFI installed on the first bathroom outlet. In my house, they originally tied the kitchen backsplash, garage, and all the bathroom outlets to a single run, with a GFI in the garage - the first outlet form the electrical panel. The bad thing is, when you trip something, you have to run outside to the garage to reset the outlet. I tore that out and put individual circuits for each room.

It is code (in NJ) that all outlets in the basement have to be hooked to a GFI circuit at least that's what the inspector told me. I had regular outlets and had to swap them out with GFIs in order to pass. I wound up putting GFIs for each basement outlet and pigtailing them so the outlets will trip individually.

The clothes dryer vent is BAD. That sounds like a fire waiting to happen. In fact, alot of homes burn down because of dryer fires - due to the vent clogging and getting so damn hot. Having the thing go vertical seems like a no-no to me. I've only ever seen them done mostly lateral to get outside.