Homeowner executes two burglars

[jpeyton]

All this argument over "number of shots" is silly. If my home was being invaded, and I had a 33 round magazine on my Glock 17, I could fire at the trespasser until empty and no jury in the country would convict me.

The ONLY issue here stems from the fact that after the homeowner took a single shot, he stopped shooting to assess the situation. Once you stop shooting and assess the situation, you're telling the police/court that you became aware that the threat was gone. Thus any further shots taken at the invader were made after this fact, and are considered criminal acts.

Had the homeowner continued firing multiple times BEFORE stopping to assess the situation, he not only would have come to the same desired result, but he would have not been criminally liable for killing the invaders.

In a life-or-death personal defense situation, let your instincts take over. Keep firing until empty, if you can safely do so.

 

[CLite]

With all the "sack of shit" "worthless human being" posts being made, I'm curious if we can come to a fundamental agreement.

Which action makes someone more of a "worthless human being":
1) Dragging an incapacitated human around your house and then placing your gun under their chin and executing them? We can label the incapacitated human as a robber in this case.
2) Robbing someone's property?

If one of your more idiotic friend's shoplifted as a kid would you be cheer-leading a shopkeeper wounding your friend and then dragging him/her around and then blowing apart their head?

I'd think the answer is pretty straight forward, unless one suffers from extreme emotional detachment.

 

[Darwin333]

Does the law spell out the illegality of "finishing off" a home invader?

I mean... if you're legally allowed to "shoot to kill", but you miss... it's still legal to fire again. How does that apply to this I wonder?

You are allowed to shoot for as long as you reasonably fear for your life and not one moment longer (although some leniency is often given due to adrenaline and such but we are talking a few seconds or so).

No one in their right mind would fear for their life from a girl already shot multiple times, no weapon (if you can drag her you can check her for weapons), lying on the floor, and gasping for breath. The mere act of dragging her shows that you did not fear for your life. If any of you think that is something to reasonably fear for your life from, you should not own guns because you are way to much of a chickenshit to responsibly use them.

 

[sigurros81]

With all the "sack of shit" "worthless human being" posts being made, I'm curious if we can come to a fundamental agreement.

Which action makes someone more of a "worthless human being":
1) Dragging an incapacitated human around your house and then placing your gun under their chin and executing them? We can label the incapacitated human as a robber in this case.
2) Robbing someone's property?

If one of your more idiotic friend's shoplifted as a kid would you be cheer-leading a shopkeeper wounding your friend and then dragging him/her around and then blowing apart their head?

I'd think the answer is pretty straight forward, unless one suffers from extreme emotional detachment.

:thumbsup:

There are some seriously fucked up in the head sociopaths on AT forums.

 

[piasabird]

Anyone that breaks into someone elses house should get the death penalty. We see a lot of old people killed this way in the city.

 

[Incorruptible]

Anyone that breaks into someone elses house should get the death penalty. We see a lot of old people killed this way in the city.

This, if your charged with breaking into someones house then the death penalty is in order, too many times we have seen criminals who have no respect for property rights

 

[Darwin333]

You mean like George Zimmerman?

Yeah..... tons of similarities between the two cases.....

 

[Darwin333]

This, if your charged with breaking into someones house then the death penalty is in order, too many times we have seen criminals who have no respect for property rights

Damn, even the muslims are more civilized than that! They just cut off one of your hands.

 

[jpeyton]

You are allowed to shoot for as long as you reasonably fear for your life and not one moment longer (although some leniency is often given due to adrenaline and such but we are talking a few seconds or so).

The average person, with minimal training, can empty a 17-round magazine in less than 5 seconds.

 

[Incorruptible]

Damn, even the muslims are more civilized than that! They just cut off one of your hands.

Cutting off hands is civilized?

 

[Darwin333]

The average person, with minimal training, can empty a 17-round magazine in less than 5 seconds.

I am quite well aware of that. If your good you can drop the mag, pop in your spare, and crank off another 17 rounds in another 10-12 seconds.

The point is, you are still in fear of your life during those 5 seconds and if you do crank them all off in 5 seconds and as long as it was a good shoot in the first place you will be in no trouble with the law.

 

[Darwin333]

Cutting off hands is civilized?

More civilized than killing them thats for damn sure.

 

[jpeyton]

Which action makes someone more of a "worthless human being":
1) Dragging an incapacitated human around your house and then placing your gun under their chin and executing them? We can label the incapacitated human as a robber in this case.
2) Robbing someone's property?

The two crimes committed here can be mutually exclusive in their worthlessness. The homeowner is obviously worthless for executing an incapacitated criminal, but the criminal is obviously worthless for trespass and attempted robbery. Just because someone commits a crime against you doesn't excuse you of the crimes you committed yourself.

If one of your more idiotic friend's shoplifted as a kid would you be cheer-leading a shopkeeper wounding your friend and then dragging him/her around and then blowing apart their head?

I'd think the answer is pretty straight forward, unless one suffers from extreme emotional detachment.

Unless someone suffers from extreme intellectual impairment, I would hope they could identify the fundamental differences between shoplifting in an open-to-the-public establishment and a home invasion.

The girl, according to her own family members, was an addict, and the boy seemed well-built and athletic. The two could have easily overpowered an old, out-of-shape retiree, so he had every reason to fear for his life. The ONLY mistake the homeowner made was continuing to discharge his firearm after he assessed that both invaders were no longer a threat.

 

[piasabird]

You dont break into someones house or apartment unless you plan on breaking the law in some way.

 

[Veliko]

The girl, according to her own family members, was an addict, and the boy seemed well-built and athletic. The two could have easily overpowered an old, out-of-shape retiree, so he had every reason to fear for his life. The ONLY mistake the homeowner made was continuing to discharge his firearm after he assessed that both invaders were no longer a threat.

No, the homeowner's 'mistake' was thinking that what he was doing was acceptable.

 

[Veliko]

You dont break into someones house or apartment unless you plan on breaking the law in some way.

So no different to illegally downloading a film, then?

 

[jpeyton]

No, the homeowner's 'mistake' was thinking that what he was doing was acceptable.

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Veliko]

Isn't that what I said?

Your use of the word 'mistake' makes it sound like he was a doddery bloke who accidentally walked out of his house without wearing his trousers.

What he did wasn't a 'mistake', it was outright murder.

 

[jpeyton]

Your use of the word 'mistake' makes it sound like he was a doddery bloke who accidentally walked out of his house without wearing his trousers.

What he did wasn't a 'mistake', it was outright murder.

I would categorize committing murder as a mistake.

Kind of like how illegally downloading a film is a mistake, no?

 

[Veliko]

I would categorize committing murder as a mistake.

Kind of like how illegally downloading a film is a mistake, no?

There's something wrong with you then.

 

[nehalem256]

The girl, according to her own family members, was an addict, and the boy seemed well-built and athletic. The two could have easily overpowered an old, out-of-shape retiree, so he had every reason to fear for his life. The ONLY mistake the homeowner made was continuing to discharge his firearm after he assessed that both invaders were no longer a threat.

The first mistake was continuing to discharge his firearm after he assessed that both invaders were no longer a threat, in a way that made it blatantly obvious he no longer considered them a threat (by dragging one to another room to finish her off).

The second mistake he made was telling police in great detail how he executed her.

 

[CLite]

The two crimes committed here can be mutually exclusive in their worthlessness. The homeowner is obviously worthless for executing an incapacitated criminal, but the criminal is obviously worthless for trespass and attempted robbery. Just because someone commits a crime against you doesn't excuse you of the crimes you committed yourself.

You can't fix psychosis as easily as you can fix a dysfunctional teenager. Someone who drags around an incapacitated criminal and summarily executes them is far more detached from humanity than a teenager committing robbery.

Unless someone suffers from extreme intellectual impairment, I would hope they could identify the fundamental differences between shoplifting in an open-to-the-public establishment and a home invasion.

The girl, according to her own family members, was an addict, and the boy seemed well-built and athletic. The two could have easily overpowered an old, out-of-shape retiree, so he had every reason to fear for his life. The ONLY mistake the homeowner made was continuing to discharge his firearm after he assessed that both invaders were no longer a threat.

The example was obviously a hyperbole.

I have no issue with the initial defense, even if these teenagers could have evolved past their ways in future years, they put themselves in that situation and the homeowner had every right to defend himself. However, in this case there was a clear line where self-defense ended and cold-blooded murder began. The home-owner went past that line committing a far more heinous crime than these two teenagers.

"well-built, out-of-shape, "overpowered" these are all meaningless words. I wouldn't blink if a well-built man justifiably defended himself against a scrawny intruder, but I would not support a 100lb woman dragging around a bleeding body-builder and executing him. In the first example well-built man is justified, in the 2nd the 100lb woman would obviously be psychotic and need treatment.

 

[sigurros81]

The average person, with minimal training, can empty a 17-round magazine in less than 5 seconds.

Anyone can empty a magazine in less than 5 seconds, the question is will they actually hit anything--this average person with minimal training you're speaking of.

Better yet, I'd like to see you unload a 17 round magazine in 5 seconds and actually keep your precision in check.

 

[CLite]

Smith told investigators he shot 18-year-old Haile Kifer several times as she descended a stairway into his basement, and his Mini 14 rifle jammed as he tried to shoot her again after she had tumbled down the steps.

Though Kifer was "already hurting," she let out a short laugh, Smith told investigators. He then pulled out his .22-caliber revolver and shot her several times in the chest, according to the complaint.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Smith told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

......

In the complaint, Smith said he was in his basement when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Smith said he fired when Brady came into view from the waist down.

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.
"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat down on his chair. After a few minutes, Kifer began coming down the stairs and he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, he said.

After shooting her with both the Mini 14 and the .22-caliber revolver, he dragged her next to Brady. With her still gasping for air, he fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint says.

This story is really quite bizarre upon further consideration. Kifer walked down the stairs into a dark basement after hearing two shots?

Also the "she laughed" comment points heavily to paranoia/schizophrenia.

 

[Keeper]

Again. No breaking into people house = no getting shot at by home owners.

Can you send me a link or two about people getting shot by law abiding citizens just by walking on the street and minding their business?

Pssst... I sometimes come off as trite... BUT I was agreeing with you.
ROOT CAUSE IS THEIR INITIAL ACTION. BREAKING IN.
PERIOD.

I was just trying to add to your position about these townships (YEAH, there are several) that are trying to say Red Light Cameras make drivers unsafe.

NO ONE TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for themselves anymore.
The 2 dead people.....
They broke into the house...
SHEET HAPPENS. Bet they NEVER thought that was gonna happen!!!
You know... getting Dead...