Originally posted by: tss4
If you do not think that homosexuality has become more accepted in the last 20 years in American culture than you are divorcing yourself of reality. Any poll on the topic would support my claim. I also never siad they were going to change the views of chrsitians. I said each generation has become progressively more liberal on this issue and as such, it is only a matter of time.
I agree and never said to the contrary that homosexuality is now more socially accepted than in the past in America. This is undeniable and very obvious and I never said this was not true. However, just because the past twenty years have shown a trend in Christianity does not mean you can extrapolate that data to extend ahead in time. This trend is not something that hasn't been seen in the past. Fluctuations between more liberal and conservative views come and go, but the vast majority of the Christian world (>99%) has never accepted homosexuality, simply because the Bible is so obviously opposed to that lifestyle. It is not "a matter of time" as you are claiming; that is an unfair and impossible to debate claim, because it is a prediction, not a fact.
Originally posted by: tss4
As for the turmoil surrounding the anglican church, you clearly have not payed attention to events involving them recently. I made the point that not all christians believe as you do (that homosexuality is wrong) and I am correct in that statement.
I am aware of these changes, and they are highly controversial for a reason. Indeed, I don't expect all Christians to believe as I do, and I dont know what all Christians believe, but this doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the Christian community is not even debating this issue at all because it has already been decided by the Bible.
Originally posted by: tss4
Hey, big guy, you need to relax. I don't understand why you feel so threatened. I'm not referring to my experience on this board at all. I do find this board to be quite different from the rest of the world, but I am speaking from direct experience on the beliefs of christianity.
It's not that I feel "threatened" but I do like to clear up misinformation when given the chance. I'm sure you have direct experience with Christianity, but your own persoanl beliefs do not alter the reality of the situation, and that will never change. We should strive to conform our beliefs to those of Jesus, not try to shape him to fit us. The simple fact is 99% of the official positions of Christian churches is that homosexual acts are not permissable.
Originally posted by: tss4
Like I said, I'm not clever enough enough to have come up with that definition, It came stratight from the catholic preists and was borrowed by the protestants. And I have no idea why you feel the need to criticize my arguement for making the same distinction that you yourself do.
I'm not criticizing your arguements, but your definitions are not universal and you seem to be claiming that they are. I'm simply pointing out this mistake because it is confusing, and because a lot of people do not think of the definition you are using when you use the word "gay". It's just word usage, nothing more, nothing to get heated about.
Originally posted by: tss4
You didn't read what I said. I said you find it ok to distiniguish between desire and action but yet I am being unreasonable by doing so.
I do not think you are being unreasonable to distinguish between the two. Not at all.
Originally posted by: tss4
Lastly, speaking from one christian to another. You need to relax. This is suppose to be a freindly conversation, but your tone and use of language clearly indicates how hostile you are. I'm not sorry to question some of the foundations by which you support your beliefs. I only present the facts and in a discussion forum, I would assume that we are all mature enough to discuss them rationally without becoming hostile when some one presents facts that do no reflect well upon our position.
I am not hostile, and I have not attacked anyone. I'm not sure how text can have a tone, but I apologize if you felt like I was attacking you for your beliefs, because that is not my intention. I'm glad you are a Christian, but like everyone else we are susceptable to error and I don't even claim my own views are infallible. But there are some things we can know and be sure of, and we shouldn't shy away from these conclusions if they are true simply because of the social climate of our day. Humans change, yes, but God's morality is unchanging.
I appreciate the discussions, but just be aware that you are presenting both fact and opinion, and to confuse the two is to ask for an arguement.
Originally posted by: tss4
Anyway, I hope you have a great day.
You too. I don't intend to argue with you and I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. I apologize if I did not choose my words better, but I hope we can continue to have these dicussions in the future.