Honda Accord Hybrid: Honda's Best-Selling Vehicle Goes Hybrid

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Jigga
Well car manufacturers have realized expensive hybrid's won't sell on fuel efficiency alone. That's why Lexus, Honda and others will begin marketing the performance aspect of hybrids as well. Try getting 260+hp (rumored power of hybrid Accord, torque is even better) from a 4-cylinder Civic, let alone the TDI engines from VW. The performance you get seems to make up for the price premium.

You got that entirely backwards, though!!! Diesel engines are known as torque monsters; hence why utility type trucks are all diesels (one of the reasons).

However I will say that I have read some articles where some companies including Honda have designed some pretty powerful hybrid engines. All prototype concept car type engines which were all too cost prohibitive to be consumer items at this time.

 

[toant103]

"the Accord V6 Hybrid will deliver power and performance above the current 240-horsepower Accord V6 with the fuel economy of a compact-class, four-cylinder Civic sedan."

Nice.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Until these things start doubling current MPG figures, the up front costs and unknown down the road replacement costs make them a less than warm deal to me.

I can understand if you look at it from an emissions standpoint, but from an economy standpoint it just isn't worth it.

So it rivals the economy of a 4 cylinder civic? Whoopdeedoo. Buy a four cylinder Accord in the first place, save $10,000, and be done with it. The 3-4MPG you are gaining will almost never make up for the costs.

The thing with hybrids is that at current gas prices, the money you save on gas is probably erased by when time comes to replace the batteries. That's not even counting the additional cost of the hybrid over comparable gas only models.

That being said, if the HP output on the accord is high enough, I might still buy one. And I already have the current generation accord.

 

[KokomoGST]

Somehow I highly doubt that Honda can pull this off without a hitch.

Toyota sure made an awesome car with the Prius but that wasn't without a heck of a lot of overseas development. Then again, the Accord Hybrid doesn't really shoot for very high goals...

Consider that you can use a CVT tranny with a 6cyl motor + electric assist + regenerative braking and it should be able to reach that fairly low goal of Civic-level fuel mileage. Heck, I doubt they even need regenerative braking. Just their VCM (which I hope works well) should be nearly enough to reach Civic MPG on the highway.

 

[jst0ney]

Now if only Gdubba would give tax breaks to these like he does to huge SUV's

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Until these things start doubling current MPG figures, the up front costs and unknown down the road replacement costs make them a less than warm deal to me.

I can understand if you look at it from an emissions standpoint, but from an economy standpoint it just isn't worth it.

So it rivals the economy of a 4 cylinder civic? Whoopdeedoo. Buy a four cylinder Accord in the first place, save $10,000, and be done with it. The 3-4MPG you are gaining will almost never make up for the costs.

The thing with hybrids is that at current gas prices, the money you save on gas is probably erased by when time comes to replace the batteries. That's not even counting the additional cost of the hybrid over comparable gas only models.

That being said, if the HP output on the accord is high enough, I might still buy one. And I already have the current generation accord.

I looked up battery pack life the other day:

FAQ's

Q: How long does the battery pack last?
A: The battery pack is designed to last ten years under normal driving conditions.


Q: What kind of warranty does the Civic Hybrid have?
A: The Civic Hybrid comes with a 3-year/36,000-mile limited warranty, just like every other Honda. Its battery pack comes with an 8-year/80,000-mile warranty,? and all emissions-related equipment comes with a more extensive warranty. See your dealer for details.

I was impressed. I'm also going to be following what kind of luck owners have with their battery life.

 

[KamakaziRcr]

Originally posted by: JzeroLikewise I'd hate to spend Pilot/S2000 prices and only get an Accord.

Wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges! :roll:

 

[Nikamichi]

Originally posted by: toant103
"the Accord V6 Hybrid will deliver power and performance above the current 240-horsepower Accord V6 with the fuel economy of a compact-class, four-cylinder Civic sedan."

Nice.

;drools:

 

[pcmodem]

Right now due to the high demand for Hybrid cars, I've been hearing on the radio that the Toyota Prius has a waitlist of 6 months and dealers are selling them for a minimum of $3000 above retails price, with many going for $5000 over retail.

With a $3000 to $5000 over retail markup, there goes the money you would save on gas.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Hybrids. It's just that I hate price gouging.



Cheers, :beer:
PCM

 

[kami333]

Originally posted by: pcmodem
Right now due to the high demand for Hybrid cars, I've been hearing on the radio that the Toyota Prius has a waitlist of 6 months and dealers are selling them for a minimum of $3000 above retails price, with many going for $5000 over retail.

With a $3000 to $5000 over retail markup, there goes the money you would save on gas.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Hybrids. It's just that I hate price gouging.



Cheers, :beer:
PCM

6month waitlist means you are lucky, my gf wants one and all the places we called told us 12-24months.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: KamakaziRcr

Originally posted by: JzeroLikewise I'd hate to spend Pilot/S2000 prices and only get an Accord.

Wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges! :roll:

No it's not - not everyone just shops for one specific class of car. If I'm shopping for a car in the $30k range, maybe I'm flexible about whether it's a sedan, SUV, roadster (which, in reality, I am!). When you compare the prices, it's hard to escape the fact that you're basically getting a $25k car for $30k.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Until these things start doubling current MPG figures, the up front costs and unknown down the road replacement costs make them a less than warm deal to me.

I can understand if you look at it from an emissions standpoint, but from an economy standpoint it just isn't worth it.

So it rivals the economy of a 4 cylinder civic? Whoopdeedoo. Buy a four cylinder Accord in the first place, save $10,000, and be done with it. The 3-4MPG you are gaining will almost never make up for the costs.

Try about 8-10mpg gain. (4cyl vs 6cyl Accord MPG is 24 - 21 auto, 26 - 22 manual) Without the actual pricing information and specifications though it's really too early to make judgements. That Accord looks like it's based off the LX model, which starts right around $22K MSRP.

 

[vi edit]

Edmunds shows the 4 cyl accord at 24/33 for an auto.
It puts a civic at 29/38 for an auto LX.

That's 5MPG difference between the economy of the compact and the midsize car. I was one MPG off.

For the Civic, the the hybrid was a $2500 premium, maybe even more with lots of demand. With the accord you are looking at a $4000 difference between a 4cyl & 6cyl. Then add in the premium of the hybrid tech and I wouldn't be surprised if it bumps up the price another $3,000-$4,000 on top of that.

And honestly - I'm not concerned about the V6-like performance. For most people you either care about performance, or you care about price/economy. Sure, we all would like the performance of the V6 with the economy of the compact, but the reality of it is that it just isn't enough difference to most people to justify adding another $5,000-$8,000 onto the price.

For a lot of families that's 5 years worth of free fuel! It's just not worth it.

 

[KamakaziRcr]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: KamakaziRcr

Originally posted by: Jzero
Likewise I'd hate to spend Pilot/S2000 prices and only get an Accord.

Wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges! :roll:

No it's not - not everyone just shops for one specific class of car. If I'm shopping for a car in the $30k range, maybe I'm flexible about whether it's a sedan, SUV, roadster (which, in reality, I am!). When you compare the prices, it's hard to escape the fact that you're basically getting a $25k car for $30k.

Not everyone, most people do. Very very rarely is someone going to crossshop between a midsize SUV Pilot to a small roadster S2000.

 

[KamakaziRcr]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

For the Civic, the the hybrid was a $2500 premium, maybe even more with lots of demand. With the accord you are looking at a $4000 difference between a 4cyl & 6cyl. Then add in the premium of the hybrid tech and I wouldn't be surprised if it bumps up the price another $3,000-$4,000 on top of that.

The $4k difference between a 4cyl LX and a 6cyl LX Accord is more than just the engine. Typically with nearly every model, a jump to a V6 is about $2k more. You do get quite a bit more with the V6 LX that you don't get in the 4cyl EX. Like traction control, 16" wheels, passive security system, indash 6CD changer with steering wheel remote, power driver seat, passenger detection airbag system, etc....

Also keep in mind with the hybrid Accord V6, not only do you get the electric hybrid motor assistance, but the Variable Cylinder Management system that should improve the highway mpg by about 10-15%. Also keep in mind, that a big chunk of that price difference is tax deductible when April 15th rolls around.

Originally posted by: vi_edit
And honestly - I'm not concerned about the V6-like performance. For most people you either care about performance, or you care about price/economy. Sure, we all would like the performance of the V6 with the economy of the compact, but the reality of it is that it just isn't enough difference to most people to justify adding another $5,000-$8,000 onto the price.

For a lot of families that's 5 years worth of free fuel! It's just not worth it.

I believe there's a lot of customers who desire the performance of an Accord V6 and is willing to pay the premium for the hybrid motor to save them money at the gas pump, especially with the fluctuation of gas prices these days and the idea of gas reaching above $2.50/g in the realistic near future.

Also again, the premium for the hybrid Accord over the regular V6 Accord, a large portion of it is tax deductible.

 

[vi edit]

Also keep in mind, that a big chunk of that price difference is tax deductible when April 15th rolls around.

No, it's not. It's a $2,000 tax deduction which depending on tax brackets tops out around $1,100. (assuming 44% tax bracket)

 

[KamakaziRcr]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Also keep in mind, that a big chunk of that price difference is tax deductible when April 15th rolls around.

No, it's not. It's a $2,000 tax deduction which depending on tax brackets tops out around $1,100. (assuming 44% tax bracket)

What? First you say no its not tax deductable, then you say it is? What's up with the flip flop reply?

 

[Legendary]

As a Civic hybrid driver I can say after almost 2 years the battery shows no sign of decreasing capacity, nor does the performance.
On another note, I see many hybrids around - at the mall and such - surrounded by 2 SUVs.

 

[FatAlbo]

Originally posted by: Strang

Originally posted by: Babbles
Anybody know if the Civic Hyrbrid has been selling well? In the Dallas/Fort Worth area I have seen very very few of them. Also I do not think that the MPG is really mindblowing.

I think VW is onto something with their TDI engine. My woman has a TDI Jetta and it gets like 48MPG and is a great car. Now VW is going to release in the states a Passat TDI which should get essentially the same MPG. I think the diesel option, for the time being at least, is going to be way superior to this half-baked hybrid cars out there.

No idea about Civic Hybrid sales figures, but I see a healthy amount here in Seattle (although not as often as I see Prius). This is an atypical market, however.

6month waitlist means you are lucky, my gf wants one and all the places we called told us 12-24months.

I was looking into cars about a month ago in the Seattle area. The word from the Honda dealer is a 12-month wait list for the Civic Hybrid, and an 18-month wait list for the Prius. Six is definitely pretty damn lucky.