Honda's engines vs Nissan vs Toyota?

[bolido2000]

Anyway, this thread is not about indicting the EPA's method for measuring fuel economy but I want to point out that high torque output carries a price: high fuel consumption. It's money out of your pocket.

Like someone else pointed out fuel economy is not directly related to torque alone, but on your driving style. If you go WOT all the time you you will get sh!tty fuel economy regardless of what you drive. I do admit that the Altima is prolly less fuel efficient than the Accord, but you will be saving what....70 bucks a year in fuel?

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: LAUST
Unless a vehicle is gonna hit a track or tow a trailor I'd say that throws power into a distant priority

It's desighn and longevity that are the 2 most important things with a REGULAR CAR engine. I have yet to personally scope a 3.5, but it is a V6 right? and it's in a FWD car?? that already SUCKS to do anything under the hood. 29MPG is good but I had 2 Civic's that both went the speed limit just fine and got over 40Mpg on 85 Octaine Plus I could change the plugs in 5 minutes. Have fun with those back 3 fella's ... oh wait... thats right everyone is gonna have a shop do it for them... no actual quality time with your engines

How old are you? 60?
FWD....has limitations but a closed differential solves many of them.
I would never drive a V4 after driving a V6. It is almost taken for granted with japanese imports now that the engine has to be reliable.

 

[cressida]

Originally posted by: wellerdball

Originally posted by: SoloKid
bla bla bla ... whatever runs.

ignorant

sure.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: LAUST
Unless a vehicle is gonna hit a track or tow a trailor I'd say that throws power into a distant priority

It's desighn and longevity that are the 2 most important things with a REGULAR CAR engine. I have yet to personally scope a 3.5, but it is a V6 right? and it's in a FWD car?? that already SUCKS to do anything under the hood. 29MPG is good but I had 2 Civic's that both went the speed limit just fine and got over 40Mpg on 85 Octaine Plus I could change the plugs in 5 minutes. Have fun with those back 3 fella's ... oh wait... thats right everyone is gonna have a shop do it for them... no actual quality time with your engines

How old are you? 60?
FWD....has limitations but a closed differential solves many of them.
I would never drive a V4 after driving a V6. It is almost taken for granted with japanese imports now that the engine has to be reliable.

I in no way indicated limitations of a V6... a FWD V6 isn't exactly mounted stright in there... it's turned sideways... now with that, picture where the now facing the firewall side of the engine looks for space and room to work.

I don't care how reliable the engine is, tune-ups are part of EVERY engines cycle. If you plan on only owning a car for 70K miles then getting a new one thats fine... but thats a different discussion.. as far as engines, Open a newspaper classified and show me a Nissan running with some old Honda CVCC's and enough miles on em to go to the moon

As far as power, I guess I'm just so used to driving my gutless truck around all the time I should really do something with it to add some power... maybe I could add a Supercharger.. maybe some exhaust.. and do some of my own custom tuning on her Things that will effect the power, but not overall desighn

 

[CocaCola5]

I would say Nissan, Toyota, then Honda. The reason i would rate Hondas V6s last is that i've had time with their old 2.7 to the 3.0-3.2L(haven't driven the Odysse 3.5, but i've also had time with a NSX 3.0 however it was in a manual),.. and they ALL lacked torque, i don't care what they're rated at they still feel weaker than the Nissan and Toyota.

 

[Salvador]

They are all pretty comparable. Depends what motor you get. Honda does have the distinction of having the most hp per liter in the S2000. 120hp per liter. Not bad.. Also, Honda's VTEC is being widely copied by the other manufacturers now.

It's pretty simple. Big displacement equals torque. You can't compare the 1.8L or 2.0L high revving 4's to the 3.0L and 3.2L 6's. The bigger displacement 6's are always going to feel more powerful because they give you the low end torque and midrange power that you feel in the seat. The small 4's may put out the same hp, but you really don't feel that power.

Anyway.. Any of the Japanese engines from Toyota, Honda or Nissan are going to be comparable. Just be sure to compare apples to apples.

Sal

 

[LXi]

<<I had 2 Civic's that both went the speed limit just fine and got over 40Mpg on 85 Octaine>>

What kind of Civics were they!? 40mpg is hard to believe, the '95-'01 Civics were only rated at around 35 highway w/ regular unleaded. And I never observed that kind of fuel efficiency out of any Civic today.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: LXi
<<I had 2 Civic's that both went the speed limit just fine and got over 40Mpg on 85 Octaine>>

What kind of Civics were they!? 40mpg is hard to believe, the '95-'01 Civics were only rated at around 35 highway w/ regular unleaded. And I never observed that kind of fuel efficiency out of any Civic today.

my last one was a 98 LX 4 Door 5-speed,

I don't always trust EPA ratings myself as I get 19mpg hwy from my 5300lb 4x4 truck with 4.10 gears and a supercharged 5.3.

if I remember correctly my truck was rated as 17 for the highway by the EPA. The worst I see aside from racing is 13 with my standard 8000lb~ car trailor load.

 

[LXi]

IIRC, the LXs don't have VTEC in their engines, could that be the source of better efficiency? The most I could get out of my '98 EX is about 28mpg with 50-50 city and highway.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

I think I get about 18mpg highway with my 240sx. It sucks having the engine turn over at 3000rpm at 70 and 3500 at 80.

 

[KokomoGST]

Honda makes great small 4cyl NA engines... but lately other than the F20s in the REAL ITR/CTRs/S2ks it's mostly a dissappointment. VTEC is just the ability to have 2 different cam profiles essentially. Of course, VTEC isn't always for performance... Honda has used it for better fuel efficency. Also, everyone and their grandma now has some sort of variable valve timing system. Also, a lot of tuners take out the mild cam profile from VTEC as well as the rest of the system since they don't care for the extra weight of the system on the drivetrain since they don't care about driveability near idle.

Some of Toyota's VVTi are technically superior even to Honda's best iVTEC engines. But then I've always been partial to I6s, such as the 2JZ-GTE. Nissan also has made the overengineered RB26DETT, the SR20DE/DET on top of the VQ. It's sad to see these great engines go away... it's kinda like seeing the H22a go away from Honda.

Honda hasn't made a single factory boosted performance engine... if you wanna talk peak power, turbocharged 4cyl engines from Nissan, Subaru, Mitsubishi with the same 2L displacement make a whole lotta power... REAL power... horsepower per liter? Yeah... the boosted rotaries "displacement" a bit strange but just considering the EJ20 and 4G63 in their peak factory forms... if it wasn't for the 280bhp gentlemen's agreement... and they make gobs of torque.

All this talk about the Nissan V6 vs the Honda V6 (not including NSX), it should be clear as day, esp with whp #s and you can throw in 1/4 mi trap speeds for good measure. I've always preferred the balance and smoothness of a good I-6...

 

[rootaxs]

Originally posted by: Salvador
They are all pretty comparable. Depends what motor you get. Honda does have the distinction of having the most hp per liter in the S2000. 120hp per liter. Not bad.. Also, Honda's VTEC is being widely copied by the other manufacturers now.

Were it not for Japanese regulations that restricts output to 280hp this car would compete with the S2k in terms of hp/litre.

 

[Salvador]

Were it not for Japanese regulations that restricts output to 280hp this car would compete with the S2k in terms of hp/litre.

Ok.. Well let me revise the statement. I think it has to with the most hp/litre of any production car and that rules out cars that don't pass US govt. emissions like the Skyline. Also, I believe it's the most hp/litre of any NA (naturally aspirated) engine. I believe that the Skyline uses turbochargers.

Sal

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Performance - Nissan
Fuel efficient & reliable - Honda and Toyota

Whats funny is all these posts and the 2nd one made sums it up very simply and correctly, Honda and Toyota (especially Honda: CVCC ring a bell?) have more cars still out on the road then Nissan. And Nissan does supply a more powerful (though I don't see the use in a commuter car)

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Performance - Nissan
Fuel efficient & reliable - Honda and Toyota

Whats funny is all these posts and the 2nd one made sums it up very simply and correctly, Honda and Toyota (especially Honda: CVCC ring a bell?) have more cars still out on the road then Nissan. And Nissan does supply a more powerful (though I don't see the use in a commuter car)

Uhmmm... regarding this statement and going back to your other statement about opening up the clasifieds...
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe it's because Honda and Toyota sells a LOT more vehicles than Nissan does?

I see a ton of old school Maxima's, Sentra's and Stanza's in my area.
Yes, there are also old Accord's, CRX's, Civic's and Corolla's rolling around.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Performance - Nissan
Fuel efficient & reliable - Honda and Toyota

Whats funny is all these posts and the 2nd one made sums it up very simply and correctly, Honda and Toyota (especially Honda: CVCC ring a bell?) have more cars still out on the road then Nissan. And Nissan does supply a more powerful (though I don't see the use in a commuter car)

Uhmmm... regarding this statement and going back to your other statement about opening up the clasifieds...
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe it's because Honda and Toyota sells a LOT more vehicles than Nissan does?

I see a ton of old school Maxima's, Sentra's and Stanza's in my area.
Yes, there are also old Accord's, CRX's, Civic's and Corolla's rolling around.

Yes it did occur to me, thanks for asking... People buy whats reliable now huh?

back at cha

 

[rogue1979]

I would have to say Nissan engines are the best. I didn't read all five pages in this thread, but did anyone mention that most of the Nissan engines do not need to have the timing chain replaced for the lifetime of the motor. I don't think Toyota or Honda engines can claim this, and if anyone has had their timing belt changed by a reputable mechanic it lately, it isn't cheap. While Hondas engines are generally more efficient in terms of displacement/horsepower, Nissan takes the easier route by simply using more displacement, thus improving the torque curve and managing to stay close in fuel consumption.

 

[rootaxs]

Originally posted by: LAUST
Whats funny is all these posts and the 2nd one made sums it up very simply and correctly, Honda and Toyota (especially Honda: CVCC ring a bell?) have more cars still out on the road then Nissan. And Nissan does supply a more powerful (though I don't see the use in a commuter car)

Thing is you're narrowing down the samples to the US market. If you go anywhere else the statement is no longer true. Mexico for example has more Nissan's and VW than i've ever seen in the US. In Japan, Honda is near the bottom of the pack. In the Philippines Nissan's and Toyota's are the most common cars in the road, Honda is considered slightly upscale only because they have a clause in each car sale that a vehicle cannot be used for public purposes (e.g. Taxi's, etc.).

Salvador that particular Skyline is N/A. Btw, Nissan in Japan is like BMW in the US. They tend to underrate their engine power output for marketing purposes and to get by the regulations.

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Performance - Nissan
Fuel efficient & reliable - Honda and Toyota

Whats funny is all these posts and the 2nd one made sums it up very simply and correctly, Honda and Toyota (especially Honda: CVCC ring a bell?) have more cars still out on the road then Nissan. And Nissan does supply a more powerful (though I don't see the use in a commuter car)

Uhmmm... regarding this statement and going back to your other statement about opening up the clasifieds...
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe it's because Honda and Toyota sells a LOT more vehicles than Nissan does?

I see a ton of old school Maxima's, Sentra's and Stanza's in my area.
Yes, there are also old Accord's, CRX's, Civic's and Corolla's rolling around.

Yes it did occur to me, thanks for asking... People buy whats reliable now huh?

back at cha

Then there goes your argument out the window.
what's the point of your original post if you already knew this?
Here, have another

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Performance - Nissan
Fuel efficient & reliable - Honda and Toyota

Whats funny is all these posts and the 2nd one made sums it up very simply and correctly, Honda and Toyota (especially Honda: CVCC ring a bell?) have more cars still out on the road then Nissan. And Nissan does supply a more powerful (though I don't see the use in a commuter car)

Uhmmm... regarding this statement and going back to your other statement about opening up the clasifieds...
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe it's because Honda and Toyota sells a LOT more vehicles than Nissan does?

I see a ton of old school Maxima's, Sentra's and Stanza's in my area.
Yes, there are also old Accord's, CRX's, Civic's and Corolla's rolling around.

Yes it did occur to me, thanks for asking... People buy whats reliable now huh?

back at cha

Then there goes your argument out the window.
what's the point of your original post if you already knew this?
Here, have another

LOL @ the

I don't think it's out the window at all

Thing is you're narrowing down the samples to the US market. If you go anywhere else the statement is no longer true. Mexico for example has more Nissan's and VW than i've ever seen in the US. In Japan, Honda is near the bottom of the pack. In the Philippines Nissan's and Toyota's are the most common cars in the road, Honda is considered slightly upscale only because they have a clause in each car sale that a vehicle cannot be used for public purposes (e.g. Taxi's, etc.).

Over all in the Universe: Honda and Toyo have better sales, Toyota is even nipping at the heels of the big 3.

 

[gregshin]

Gawd i love this engine This is the nissan Silvia S15 in japan and the UK. Ladies and Gentlemen....this is the SR2DET engine. In stock form this car can do 0-60 in the mid to hi 5's and 1/4 in the low 14s. Car sells for about $25,000 USD

Engine: SR20DET
2.0L DOHC VVT Turbo
Turbo Type: T28
Compressor A/R: 0.80
Injector Size: 480cc

Performance: SR20DET:
Power (ps): 250hp @ 6400 rpm
Torque (kgm): 202lbs @ 4000 rpm
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Top Speed: 180 Km / Hr ( with speed limiter installed )
Stock Boost: 8 psi

Models Available: Only came out in one model
Full electric options, Turbo only. With Helical or Viscous LSD.
Fuel System: ECCS Electronic Fuel Injection ( EFI )
Fuel Tank Capacity: 60 L
Transmisison: Available in a 6 Speed manual, or a 3 Speed Automatic ( with Overdrive ).
Automatic models are fitted with Power/Hold modes also.

Power Mode - Will allow the transmission to hold gears longer, and will down shift at much lower throttle positions.
Normal Mode - Is an automated sensing mode, if the car feels you are pushing the car, it will use Power mode.
Hold Mode - Will prevent you from pushing the car really hard, and will limit the revs to around 4,000 rpm. A very usefull mode when you desperatley need fuel Hold will also keep it in the selected gear unless you physically select a different gear.

Gear Ratios
Manual Transmission Automatic Transmission
1st 3.626 2.785
2nd 2.200 1.545
3rd 1.541 1.000
4th 1.213 0.694
5th 1.000 N/A
6th 0.767 N/A
Reverse 3.437 2.272
Final 3.692 3.916

Drive Train: Rear wheel drive, with Open or Viscous Coupling Limited Slip Differentials available.

Diff Ratios:

3.8:1
4.1:1
4.4:1
Suspension and Steering: Four wheel independant suspension is standard on all S15's.

Optional HICASII 4 Wheel Steering is available too.
Wheel Studs: 5
Brakes: Four Pot Ventilated Disks
Weight Distribution: F/R 55/45% using an average driver weight of 60 Kg.

Weightings are as follows:
Manual- 1240 Kg
Auto- 1270 Kg
Size Dimensions: Length - Width - Height = 4445 x 1695 x 1285 mm
Wheelbase = 2525 mm
Optional Extras: Sunroof:
An electric slide back type was available, however proved to be terrible for taller people.
Velour / Leather Trim:
The majority of Silvia's came with a tweed trim, but some will be lucky enough to find a model with Velour, or a leather interior.
ABS:
Anti-Lock Braking System can be found on many Silvia's
Limited Slip Differential:
Check behind your rear left wheel, for an orange sticker if you are unsure as to if you have ABS or not.