Horrible Temperatures!

[Hexus0]

Hey everyone, well since the last thread I made I've been trying to solve the reason why I've been getting bad temperatures. I'll start off with my specs:

Lian-Li PC-60 modded w/ a Antec Tricool 120MM blowhole
AMD 3200+ Winchester cooled by an XP-90 w/ AS5 + Panaflo L1BX (42CFM@27DBA)
BFG 6800 Ultra cooled Zalman VF-700CU w/AS5 + Ramsinks
(The rest of the parts are in my signature)

My Lian-Li has 2 80MM fans in the front, an 80MM rear fan exhausting air, and a 120MM blowhole also taking out air. It's been a couple of weeks since I installed my XP-90, I've tried to reinstall it a couple of times, and the third time, I decided I'd let it sit, along with my Zalman VF-700CU, so far I've still been getting horrible temperatures. CPU Idle: 42C and the load about 60C. My GPU temps are now at 55C idle from being around 48C before! Things are definately getting worse. Room temperature has to be no more then 75C, I'm wearing 2 shirts and jeans, and I'm cold...

I've tried numerous things to solve the problem, I took off my side panel and let it sit like that, I was recieving a little bit lower temps, but not much. I've tried a 120MM intake fan on my side panel (I have 2 side panels, a window one and one with an intake) and still haven't recieved any lower temps. I tried placing a 120MM where the floppy cage is, still the same temps.

How is it that my parts are running so hot?! Before using the XP-90 I was runing 36C-42C idle, now I'm just getting 42C with a aftermarket heatsink that everyone claims to get 30C? Either I'm doing something wrong or the heatsink isn't working correctly.

I don't know what to think? I spent ~$100 for sleeved cables, a XP-90 + fan, AS5, and a Zalman VF-700CU, I really don't understand what the point of spending all that money was if I'm getting worse temperatures? Does anyone have any solutions or ideas of what I should do?

 

[seiyafan]

Hehe, you are cold at room temperature of no more than 75C.

Ever heard of the movie Fantastic Four?

 

[zorrt]

are your heatsinks seated properly? check that there are no gaps whatsoever. Have you applied the paste properly, should be a very thin layer only. Is your room temperature increasing? Are the fans installed correctly? that is blowing towards the heatsink.

I notice with my zalmon being on my gpu the case temp rose by a few degrees and in turn cpu rose by about 1 degree but gpu dropped about 10 - 15 degrees.

 

[SketchMaster]

First thing, the AS5 has to "break in" this will take about 100 hours while your computer is running, within that time your temps will drop ~6-5C. 42C is not bad at all, my 3200/XP-90 would idle at that temp. It's hard to get it any cooler then that unless you have a real screamer blowing on it.

Make sure you clean out any filters you have in your case and dust all the HeatSinks. Dust can make your temps rise faster then you think.

Don't put too many fans on your case, if you have too may fans in your case blowing in and not enough blowing out the air in your case has no way to get out. Rule of thumb is try and match your intake/exhaust. meaning if you have two 80mm fans blowing in, have two 80mm blowing out (including the PSU). Or match say two 80mm with one 120mm.

Edit: explained some stuff a bit more.

Edit #2: DOH! Ditto on what Zorrt said about a thinn layer of AS5. I need to get some bloody sleep...

 

[JEDIYoda]

First of all......theres a missing part to the puzzle....
We cannot sit here and guess what that part is....

Because you do have a great heatsink and other parts...

I would venture to say possibly you need to have only 1 exhaust fan- that being the upper rear fan on the back of the case...
You other fan that you say is exhaust I would turn it around to add more cool air into the case...

Also are you sure your other fans are not mistakenly all exhaust fans???

Also AS5 will not by itself solve this guys issue.......

I think its not very smart when somebody posts that they have heat issues for somebody to ask if they used AS5.....doh....

Anyways you need to go though your case with a fine tooth comb---thats a phrase..lol
And check all your fans out as well as the heatsink making sure it has proper contact as well as making sure a possible foreihn substance did not get on the bottom of the hestsink.

Also check all your fansd make sure they are blowing in the desired direction...

Good Luck!!

 

[JBDan]

From what you say it really sounds to me like a contact issue. I would remove your XP90, clean the base of it and the heatspreader on the cpu w/ isopropyl alcohol very well. Let evaporate. Apply AS5 (or any decent thermal paste) per instructions on THEIR website. See what you get. With those room temps and you even taking the door off, it really feels to me like its your HS's installation. Give it a go. If you are running that winnie at stock speeds and your room temps are 75F, w/ good case airflow you will idle ~35-39C. As far as AS5's "burn in" time...it takes up to 200 hours and NOT of continuous running, but rather thermal cycles, which means turning your pc off overnight and letting it run when you need it (hot/cool/hot/cool). I have never seen anything above 2C cooler after AS5 cures, but I'm sure some peeps have done better.

 

[zorrt]

I know what you can do, pull off your heatsink and check the base of it, that would show if its making proper contact with your cores. Then you should repost with ur findings.

 

[timecop67]

I would recommending laping every XP-90 that is installed.... especially those with higher temps. Because the base may not be smooth. Basically just use a piece of glass for flatness and start out with 400 paper then go up to 800. Until you reach the copper layer and total flatness. Then clean with acetone or alcohol and reapply artic silver 5. I shaved 2-3Cs off my total but you could maybe do better. Thermalright should sell with the copper exposed instead of the nickle. Make sure only a small BB or grain of rice size of artic is used.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: timecop67
I would recommending laping every XP-90 that is installed.... especially those with higher temps. Because the base may not be smooth. Basically just use a piece of glass for flatness and start out with 400 paper then go up to 800. Until you reach the copper layer and total flatness. Then clean with acetone or alcohol and reapply artic silver 5. I shaved 2-3Cs off my total but you could maybe do better. Thermalright should sell with the copper exposed instead of the nickle. Make sure only a small BB or grain of rice size of artic is used.

ThermalRight does not recommend lapping the metal off the bottom of the heatsink!
Assuming this is NOT an all copper heatsink!!

That metal is there for a reason. I believe it was posted earlier in another thread that ThermalRight says that lapping that particular heatsink could in the long run cause it too fall apart!!

Seems it is made differently than the all copper and the metal finish also helps or acts as means of holding the heatsink together!!

I can`t remember who posted on this forum concerning an e-mail they recieved from ThermalRight concerning lapping!!

From what I understand there really are no issues lapping the all copper heatsinks!

 

[Hexus0]

Wow everyone thanks for the speedy replies!

I'll start off by first adressing the issue of the fans exhausting, I'm pretty sure I stated it in the other post but if not, I have 1 80MM rear fan exhausting air, which is under my PSU and the 120MM at the top exhausting air. The 2 80MM's in the front pushing in air.

I've also noticed that my PSU gives off lots of heat, I'm not sure if all that heat is being exhaust because of the small 80MM fan in the back. I was considering modding another 80MM under it to allow more air to be exhausted..

Then the issue of AS5, I have applied AS5 just like the instructions say on the website. To be more exact with the process (which I have tried several times), I had removen my processor, cleaned the thermal past off the processor with 70% isopropyl (from both the heatsink and the processor), reapplied AS5 (like the website says, just a dot in the middle, my processor with AS5 looked almost identical to the one in the instructions) next, then I just put everything back together. I thought that maybe my high temps were due to the AS5 not settling, but it's been about 2+ weeks since I installed the heatsink.

Next the issue of contact, I understand that maybe my heatsink may not be making proper contact, several times I'll take off my side panel to touch the heatsink and see if its hot, which it isn't. I don't know if these means the fan blowing cold air through is working fine, or the heatsink is not seating properly. I don't understand how it could not be making contact though, I followed the instructions very carefully and thoroughly all 3 times that I tried to reseat it.

I have read about lapping, and I'm not sure if I want to do that at this point in time, maybe if I can't get thinks to work I could try and lap it. BTW its the XP-90 ALUMINUM.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'll just second some motions here, and agree that it is either an issue of the heatsink base not making adequate contact with the processor cap, or you're creating a vacuum in your case.

It is possible to miss anchoring just one of the clips for a ThermalRight, and think that it is properly installed because "it looks secured."

With a 120mm blowing out, together with an 80mm exhaust and two 80mm intake fans (-- I think that's what you said) -- the CFMs and fan-filter issues would be critical. It is likely you don't filter your exhausts -- and you shouldn't.

But a single 80mm fan of the run-of-the-mill variety will only provide about 25 CFM of airflow (minor correction of my recollection encouraged, but I think that's about right). Unless, of course, you have 80mm fans spinning (and whining) at upwards of 3,500 to 4,500 rpm.

This problem might not occur under those circumstances of excessive exhaust CFM with starved intake CFM if the case has a lot of vents. Some earlier ATX cases provided slotted vents in the side-panel. But if the case is fairly sealed except for the fan deployments, and/or the intake fans are excessively filtered or clogged with dust, you can see how the CFM specs on the fans would cause a net vacuum in the case and make the ThermalRight less effective.

 

[Hexus0]

Well, theres no filter on the rear 80MM, but there are filters on the 2 front 80MMs which I think I might have to clean. I really think that it might not be getting enough cool air circulated in the case, I just turned on my computer this morning, actually right now (the fan and air condition have been on all night) and I'm receiving 33C, which is really good, so I think everythings making contact, I just need to adjust airflow I guess?

Edit: It's no longer 33C anymore, its idle at 40C, but it says my CPU fan is runing at 1000RPMs rather then the 2000RPMs is suppose to run at...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Let's see . . . . You're using the XP-90 cooler . . . takes a 92mm fan.

We've just gone through a spate of CPU-cooler reviews here during the last week, and I observe that most of the assemblies tested used 120mm fans. The MINIMUM CFMs used to test those heatsinks and fans were determined by the fan-speed at about 950 rpm.

So-- yes -- a smaller fan -- a 92mm -- should be running faster than that to generate the same airflow.

There really is no such thing as a "fanless" cooler. Heatpipe coolers ALL use air circulation, and all air circulation in a computer case derives from fans. Your 92mm is running too slow.

Again, there could be some disagreement with my approach, and there are exceptions like the Vantec Tornado 92mm fan, but I don't putz around with "low noise" fans which have anemic amperage ratings. I get more powerful fans with heavier motors and run them at quiet speeds. That way, I can have the best of both worlds.

 

[Hexus0]

Well the fan original runs at 42CFM@~2200RPM, but in Lavasys Everest its reporting that its at 1000RPM, is there a way I can change this?

Edit: I've checked other programs, the fan is spinning at 2200RPM where its suppose to be...

 

[imported_i2k]

Will 'cool and quiet' adjust the fan speed?
Anyone care to explain cool and quiet on a side note?
Thanks

 

[JBDan]

Originally posted by: i2k
Will 'cool and quiet' adjust the fan speed?
Anyone care to explain cool and quiet on a side note?
Thanks

Cool&Quiet does not adjust fan speed directly...just the cpu's speed via the multiplier...which will allow it to run cooler during idle times....therefore allowing your fan to spin slower as long as "fan control" (smart fan/Qfan/etc... whatever your mobo calls it) is enabled in your BIOS. If you are interested in oc'ing and using a cpu throttling software such as C&Q, I recommend RMClock.

 

[Greenman]

Could just be a wonky diode, some are. The only time I've ever seen my cpu go below 41C was when I filled the water cooler with ice water, it went to 39C, and the water block was COLD.

 

[JEDIYoda]

probably not a bad diode......he stated that all was well before installing the XP 90.....

It could be a bad XP 90...but I have never heard of that.....

Also you stated...
The only time I've ever seen my cpu go below 41C was when I filled the water cooler with ice water, it went to 39C, and the water block was COLD.

My computer presently idles at 27c....with the zalman 9500....

 

[MadScientist]

Hexus0,
I have an Athlon64 3200 with a XP-90/AS5 and my idle temp is 38C, full load temp 48-50C. System (case) temp runs 28C - 30C., room temp 25C, cpu fan speed 2800 rpm. With Cool 'n' Quiet enabled the cpu fan drops to 1700 rpm at idle and the idle temp rises to 42C. So your temps are really not that bad. I have also tried reseating the heatsink a number of times following Artic Silver's instructions on how to apply it, AS5 instructions, but did not see any temp differences, nor have I seen any temp drop after the 200 hour AS5 "break-in" period.

I may have missed it but what is your system (case) temp?

I thought about lapping the heatsink and emailed Thermalright about it. Their reply was "Do not lap the heatsink as the base is nickel plated copper", and "make sure the fan on the heatsink is blowing down".

Do you have disruptive air flow? A lot of air moving around but nothing is really being done. You can test your system's cooling effectiveness by allowing smoke to be sucked into the case. Use a stick of incense and a piece of plexiglass to cover the side if you don't have a windowed case. If the smoke is almost immediately evacuated, your case is set up properly. If it stays in the case for a while, or if it lingers in the corners without being evacuated, you need to change your cooling setup. Since every case is different, you will just have to experiment with fan placement, power, and direction to get the best airflow.

There's also the issue of the accuracy of your cpu heat sensor, many report temps much higher than actual.

The bottom line is "Is your system running stable?". If it is then there is nothing to worry about.

 

[Hexus0]

Well my system is running stable, but I don't believe thats enough of a reason to justify my ~$120 purchase. On the stock AMD heatsink I was recieving about 38C idle, everyone recomended the XP-90 to me, because they said they get temps around 30-33C, which is just what I want. I'm trying to RMA my motherboard which is causing some problems as well, at times it doesn't let me boot into BIOS, my onboard sound stop working, and I believe its reporting the temperatures wrong, so I think when I recieve my new motherboard, I'll reseat the heatsink and try some numerous things. I think I'm going to purchase 2(or 3) 80MM fans depending on if I want to do this mod. I'm going to replace the 2 front 80MMs with these Coolermaster fans and I might mod a 80MM fan under the rear 80MM fan I have right now. Do you guys think these are better then the original Lian-Li Fans?

 

[xbassman]

Well, I can't speak as to the Lian-Li fans, but the CM one aren't all that bad. Probably won't make much dif though....

The reason I am posting here is my case is a Super Flower PC-60 rip.
Everything is pretty much the same with the addition of an extra 80mm rear fan and a top 80mm fan.

My case cools extrememly well (after mods) and the most important fans in it are the 2 80mm rear fans. Here's a pic.

The top fan is almost useless. I leave it running @ 5v.

What made the most difference in reducing temps for me was cutting out all the stock fan grills. (They are VERY restrictive) I even cut out the ones in front and removed the filter. pic

 

[Hexus0]

Well I think I'm going to remove the fan grills then, I just noticed on the front theres like 2 fan grills, and then theres the filter, I removed the filter last night, but I think I'm going to remove the fan grill and just keep the one on the front bezel. and I think I'm going to remove the ones on the back as well, and I'm going to add another 80MM under the rear 80MM. Hopefully all this will be getting airflow through my case...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Jedi said: "It could be a bad XP 90...but I have never heard of that..... "

I doubt that you would, because it's pretty hard to screw up the manufacture of a heatpipe cooler.

A NASA white-paper on heatpipes published by the company that developed them back then for the space agency estimated that the MTBF on a heatpipe, barring abuse, was 2 million years . . . . and that's TRUE . . . . but nevertheless:

As for this $30 aluminum case. At first, I thought I'd buy one just to cut it up, but wisdom prevailed, and I decided to make a trip to the local sheet-metal store to see what they have in bigger thicknesses.

Even so, for that price, and for the fact that aluminum cuts like butter compared to SECC steel -- plan carefully, measure twice, cut once, take your time, reinforce the fan mountings with extra metal if needed, and supplement with foam board, rubber grommets or even Akasa or Spire pad, and get a 120mm fan in the front for intake. And get one that is capable of rpms and some serious CFM throughput -- then control the speed for noise and a happy case thermal situation you can live with.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

The heatsink could easily be checked, to feel if it is*bad*. Place the base in very hot water
80C and feel for the heat at the top.

I have two LL mid-towers(one is MT)both had dual 80mm fans rated at .15A. The MT one has
been modded for 2x92mm Chinaflos rated @ .2A. This will provide 96cfm of intake, they will just fit, leaving the front USB ports intact. The stock aluminum piece that holds the air filter
is restrictive. Some folks cut the whole center out, most toss it. You will need a fan buss if
you go for high output 80s.

Story: I just installed a Z-7000 on an AMD last night. Prior to doing this, the bench area
cleaned with a vacuum and the floor swept of all bits of solder and wire clippings.
The HS do not feel right after it was lowered onto the chip. It was lifted and there was the
tinyest ball of solder near chip center. Dang!! It must have fallen off my long sleeve
work shirt.


Galvanized