Hostility in the GPU Space?

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sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
I mean the scene is pretty bad. There is a defacto monopoly and fans of the brand that can't keep up can get pretty frustrated. Also because of said monopoly the prices are ridiculous. No doubt that also creates tension with some members scooping up insanely priced cards and others can't get a decent price on anything.

The only bright side is that 1080p cards are at a reasonable price from both camps.
 

nismotigerwvu

Golden Member
May 13, 2004
1,568
33
91
I think a lot of it has been the general trend in American culture (and Western society in general) towards increased polarization. Just a quick glance at our current political landscape is enough to see we've lost appreciation of "shades of gray".
 

SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,330
17
76
3 years ago AMD was competitive and released GPUs when NV released. Now however AMD is out of high end and all I see is green AMD fans beating down on anything NV and hating on the pricing.
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
I mean the scene is pretty bad. There is a defacto monopoly and fans of the brand that can't keep up can get pretty frustrated. Also because of said monopoly the prices are ridiculous. No doubt that also creates tension with some members scooping up insanely priced cards and others can't get a decent price on anything.

The only bright side is that 1080p cards are at a reasonable price from both camps.
The scene is very much a niche of few narrow-minded individuals present on online forums and occasionally on some LAN parties. In worldwide context, their amount is completely negligable.
 

HiroThreading

Member
Apr 25, 2016
173
29
91
I hate to say it, but a lot of it falls on AMD fans, imo.

The same thing happens in CPU discussions. AMD fans will scour every corner of the internet in order to find some mundane benchmark or performance metric in order to defend AMD's CPU designs. The fact that many fans still believe that Bulldozer was a good uarch but was poorly timed is laughable. The same goes for the last 6 generations of APUs. Even the most diehard Intel fans openly admitted that NetBurst (Prescott in particular) was a rubbish uarch.

This notion that AMD is holier than thou because they're the underdog is extremely irritating to deal with when trying to analyse or discuss CPU/GPU uarchs. We should be able to call a spade a spade. For example, I was a huge fan of ATI back in the day, but even I called the R600 for what it was -- a red hot mess.

Granted, you get a lot of bad Nvidia fans too. But they tend to just be ignorant and unaware of benchmarks. Most will acknowledge facts and reality once you show them some benchmarks and data.
 
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sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
The scene is very much a niche of few narrow-minded individuals present on online forums and occasionally on some LAN parties. In worldwide context, their amount is completely negligable.

All true, but it explains the hostility in video card forums.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,159
7,654
136
It's because competition was once healthy at all ends of the spectrum and there were options with great perf/$ all over the spectrum to fit every budget. Now we're entering an era where AMD is finished in the high end and might be on their last hurrah in the low end depending on how Zen turns out. The high end has been surrendered to Nvidia and as with any for profit business they have used and abused it. Price hikes from previous tiers, "founders" edition hijinx etc. Console ports are fewer and when there is a port they are poorly optimized requiring ever greater hardware for less performance. It just isn't the hobby it once was.

I think this (and a few other posts in this vein) really hit on the issue.

Years of being in the red + poor management have finally started to take a toll on AMD and NV is finally starting to pull away in engineering and execution. When you can't argue tech, you argue everything else and AMD GPU fans and fans of the underdog are becoming more and more zealous in their defense. We'll be lucky to get AMD's 1080 competitor by October, let alone a competitor to the newly released Titan P.

NV isn't even wasting it's time marketing the Titan P, they already know they're going to sell every one they make, reviews could only hurt them.
 
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sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
I think this (and a few other posts in this vein) really hit on the issue.

Years of being in the red + poor management have finally started to take a toll on AMD and NV is finally starting to pull away in engineering and execution. When you can't argue tech, you argue everything else and AMD GPU fans and fans of the underdog are becoming more and more zealous in their defense. We'll be lucky to get AMD's 1080 competitor by October, let alone a competitor to the newly released Titan P.

NV isn't even wasting it's time marketing the Titan P, they already know they're going to sell every one they make, reviews could only hurt them.

Yeah this speculation that this and that will happen because of Vega I can't buy anymore. NVidia is marching to their own drum at this point.

Also i agree about the sheer number of armchair CEOs and armchair chip design and manufacturing specialists out there. Nothing that has happened was predicted by anyone accurately.
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
All true, but it explains the hostility in video card forums.
Video card forums is their evening club
I hate to say it, but a lot of it falls on AMD fans, imo.

The same thing happens in CPU discussions. AMD fans will scour every corner of the internet in order to find some mundane benchmark or performance metric in order to defend AMD's CPU designs. The fact that many fans still believe that Bulldozer was a good uarch but was poorly timed is laughable. The same goes for the last 6 generations of APUs. Even the most diehard Intel fans openly admitted that NetBurst (Prescott in particular) was a rubbish uarch.

This notion that AMD is holier than thou because they're the underdog is extremely irritating to deal with when trying to analyse or discuss CPU/GPU uarchs. We should be able to call a spade a spade. For example, I was a huge fan of ATI back in the day, but even I called the R600 for what it was -- a red hot mess.

Granted, you get a lot of bad Nvidia fans too. But they tend to just be ignorant and unaware of benchmarks. Most will acknowledge facts and reality once you show them some benchmarks and data.
That's why I let those guys just get what they want, similarly to some people who like to drive cars that have low mileage, high maintenance cost, poor performance and poor design, they will however go great lengths in rationalizing such use and that the brand is always worth it. Exactly that had happened with AMD fandom some time after bulldozers were released.
 

ultima_trev

Member
Nov 4, 2015
148
66
66
I remember the good ole days of 3Dfx Voodoo, nVidia Riva 128, S3 Virge, ATI Rage 3D, Matrox Mystique, Intel i740, NEC Power VR...

Back then you didn't have the rabid fanboyism towards GPUs like you do now. Granted, 3Dfx was so far ahead of anyone at the time there was nothing that could compete until the nVidia Riva TNT2 came on the scene. Back then, all the heat was pretty much "Console versus PC Gaming" or "PC versus Mac" and the like.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,059
413
126
I remember the good ole days of 3Dfx Voodoo, nVidia Riva 128, S3 Virge, ATI Rage 3D, Matrox Mystique, Intel i740, NEC Power VR...

Back then you didn't have the rabid fanboyism towards GPUs like you do now. Granted, 3Dfx was so far ahead of anyone at the time there was nothing that could compete until the nVidia Riva TNT2 came on the scene. Back then, all the heat was pretty much "Console versus PC Gaming" or "PC versus Mac" and the like.

I was not part of any online discussion group back then (before 2002), but I seriously doubt that there were no fanboys and hostility... AMD vs Intel,
3dfx vs everyone else, OpenGL vs D3D, GLide vs whatever...

Nvidia vs ATI, Intel vs AMD around 2002 I can remember quite well;
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Is it just me or does it seem like the GPU space has more hostility than it did in years past?

First of all there is of course green team vs red team, but where before that was a battle of benchmarks today it is a battle of economic "morality" and futility.

But even outside of that we have more battles: miner vs gamer, Directx 12 vs Directx 11 vs Vulkan fans, VR vs 4K, and each battle has its share of hostility either in your face or under the surface.

Was this GPU space always this hostile and I just missed it? If not how did we get here? Aren't games and technology supposed to be fun?

Thank you for your consideration of the situation.

I sometimes think we're all part of some social experiment.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,524
1,595
136
I hate to say it, but a lot of it falls on AMD fans, imo.

The same thing happens in CPU discussions. AMD fans will scour every corner of the internet in order to find some mundane benchmark or performance metric in order to defend AMD's CPU designs. The fact that many fans still believe that Bulldozer was a good uarch but was poorly timed is laughable. The same goes for the last 6 generations of APUs. Even the most diehard Intel fans openly admitted that NetBurst (Prescott in particular) was a rubbish uarch.

This notion that AMD is holier than thou because they're the underdog is extremely irritating to deal with when trying to analyse or discuss CPU/GPU uarchs. We should be able to call a spade a spade. For example, I was a huge fan of ATI back in the day, but even I called the R600 for what it was -- a red hot mess.

Granted, you get a lot of bad Nvidia fans too. But they tend to just be ignorant and unaware of benchmarks. Most will acknowledge facts and reality once you show them some benchmarks and data.

Heh, I see things the complete opposite of you. I blame it on the nvidia fans and to some extent intel fans more than the rabid amd defenders. I don't see many outright defending AMD CPUs these days, nor many defending P4s.

I'd love to call a spade a spade, but with Nvidia these days, that seems impossible due to people who completely ignore the numbers. Fury gets rightly called out for its problems but... people defend the 970, the 960 2gb, 3gb 1060, overpriced vs perf 980, etc.. Price increases across the product stack and more. Gameworks is fine but GameEvolved isn't (neither are good in long term but it did get me to buy cards from each brand).

Of course, in the end I think we can all agree, the windows 8/10 white knight defenders are the true cause of all our problems.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
The only think that makes me mad is that it is august and you basically still cant actually buy any of these new products for anything even close to MSRP (not counting FE and other price jacking shenanigans). We are essentially still stuck on 28nm, even though we are well into 2H 2016. To make matters worse, they are pairing these new chips with way too much memory, further jacking up the prices needlessly. Nvidia is adding gaudy textures to their shroud which does nothing but further jack up the cost.

How mad would you be if every car on the dealer lot had heated rear seats, heated mirrors, backup cameras, and some ridiculous $2000 addon infotainment hub? I just want a car with that awesome new engine that is 20% more efficient than the previous one! That is how the gpu market seems in 2016.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Is it just me or does it seem like the GPU space has more hostility than it did in years past?

First of all there is of course green team vs red team, but where before that was a battle of benchmarks today it is a battle of economic "morality" and futility.

But even outside of that we have more battles: miner vs gamer, Directx 12 vs Directx 11 vs Vulkan fans, VR vs 4K, and each battle has its share of hostility either in your face or under the surface.

Was this GPU space always this hostile and I just missed it? If not how did we get here? Aren't games and technology supposed to be fun?

Thank you for your consideration of the situation.

Should had seen the late 90s with 3DFX vs Nvidia vs ATI vs Matrox.
 

master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,425
291
121
I blame it on AMD fanboys. They all so desperately want AMD GPU's to be good, so they argue about how power efficiency doesnt matter and how AMD GPU's are "gonna be good" eventually when DX12 finally takes off a year from now. It's irritating.

the power consumption argument has gotten a little hyperbolic these days...

it's not the fault of fanboys on either side it's the fault of some companies who believe that a difference of 47 watts is a huge cost over a year.

it's not.

it equates to 25 dollars at the end of the year and that's gaming 8 hours a day.

and that's at 18 cents per Kwh, which afaik is only in Ontario.

at the low end of 8 cents per Kwh it's 11 dollars a year.
 
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Bryf50

Golden Member
Nov 11, 2006
1,429
51
91
I like how this thread is slowly turning into exactly what the OP pointed out.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,502
2,452
136
the power consumption argument has gotten a little hyperbolic these days...

it's not the fault of fanboys on either side it's the fault of some companies who believe that a difference of 47 watts is a huge cost over a year.

it's not.

it equates to 25 dollars at the end of the year and that's gaming 8 hours a day.

and that's at 18 cents per Kwh, which afaik is only in Ontario.

at the low end of 8 cents per Kwh it's 11 dollars a year.

You're looking at efficiency/power consumption through a very narrow perspective. The TDP of a card affects how big the heatsink has to be, how fast (and therefore loud) the fans have to be to cool it under load. It affects the quantity of power delivery electronics required to feed the GPU. It affects how big and powerful your PSU needs to be. It affects how important case airflow is.

The more efficient a card is, the more frames you'll get without changing any of these factors to cater to a new, higher power card.

Power consumption is not only about the cost of electricity.

But it's fine, this is how forum arguments are started. Narrow perspective.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
It's always been like this, it's just way more boring now. There used to be a lot more options and the discussion was about which was the better card becuase ATI/AMD and nVidia really would trade blows on who had the better card, it was very competitive. It's not longer an argument about performance now but of value.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
1,567
126
I strongly prefer Nvidia GPUs due to the great Linux support and have been using them since 2000. Now that said, if AMD starts putting out decent FOSS drivers then I may switch next time I upgrade my video card.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
This board is what happens when a few very loud individuals are allowed to dominate discussions by turning every thread in to an argument. I don't post here anymore really, but I occasionally will read a discussion, and it's always the same.
 
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