Hostility in the GPU Space?

[redzo]

So you think 40 watts is "a big deal" yet you sit on an old and very inefficient Radeon 5xxx series card?

The purpose of the screenshot was to avoid being called a nvidia shill.
Please check its efficiency at the time of(my) purchase.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_5750_PCS/31.html

My initial argument was that 40w watts out of 150w is a lot. Other than what frozentundra123456 said, there is not much I could add to our discussion:

No one really has the right to claim to know the motivation of someone else. Undoubtedly, there are nVidia fans who use power consumption as an argument to purchase nVidia cards. But that does not mean *everyone* who is concerned with power consumption is doing that. If some posters in this forum dont care about power consumption, that is certainly their right, but a little tolerance to others who feel differently would go a long way...

Other than price, there is zero reason to go with a rx480 instead of a 1060. And since my local market prices suck(in nvidia's favor), perhaps this was my(and only) mistake.

 

[Markfw]

dark zero, not sure the question. A thread in VC&G on the subject is appropriate,

 

[railven]

So can I use the efficiency argument? I owned an HD 5870 during Fermi and I picked a 980 Ti over Fury X

All kidding aside, I just buy what seems to cater to me at the time of purchase. I'd normally just buy ATI/AMD, but it seems they've moved away. I guess I never really experienced the hostility until I put Nvidia in my sig. Certain posters never seemed to address my posts when they were AMD pom-pom waiving.

Probably the only thing keeping this forum relative. AT is lacking reviews, ask me the Tom buyout has something to do with. /shrug.

 

[boozzer]

So can I use the efficiency argument? I owned an HD 5870 during Fermi and I picked a 980 Ti over Fury X

All kidding aside, I just buy what seems to cater to me at the time of purchase. I'd normally just buy ATI/AMD, but it seems they've moved away. I guess I never really experienced the hostility until I put Nvidia in my sig. Certain posters never seemed to address my posts when they were AMD pom-pom waiving.

Probably the only thing keeping this forum relative. AT is lacking reviews, ask me the Tom buyout has something to do with. /shrug.

if your power usage is 80$(no idea how accurate this is as we don't know how mark lived ) for 2 cards in the summer like mark, it is very relevant that is about 100$ give or take for a single card for 2.5 months of summer. but that is a case by case thing. as it is 100% completely irrelevant for me

that means no, you can't use it as a sweeping metric hehe


Calling out and making fun of other members will get you nowhere here.

-Rvenger

 

[lifeblood]

Honestly I think the problem is bigger than just VC&G. I see it in the news all over the world. Radical Islam thinks their way is right and nobody, anywhere, should drink alcohol or allow unveiled women. The pro/anti gun folks hate each other with as much venom as the pro life/choice folks. Sport fans often come to blows over games. A soccer match once triggered a war between two nations. It just seems intolerance is much more visible these days.

I suspect part of the problem is inability to realize people are different. The Windows 8 lack of a nested start menu is the perfect example. Some people like to pin shortcuts all over their desktop and don’t need a start menu. Others prefer a clean desktop with all apps in the Win7 style start menu. So many people (at least the ones who post in forums) think their way is the “right” way (which is true for them) and that’s how everyone should do it (which is where they fail).

Whats important to me may not be whats important to you, and whats important to me in this situation may be different in another situation.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I notice the (Brand) hostility in my personal environment and at work as well.

Some example sentiments i had the pleasure of hearing :
AMD zuckz, Nvidia rulez and Intel is king.
If you have to pay more for it, it has to be good.
Only good stuff is expensive.
:baffled:

If i mention some minor issue i had with Intel or Nvidia (that i did solve or work around), immediately examples are presented that AMD sucks and ATI is horrible.
When i hear those one time examples, it seems to me as user errors.
It is boring.

I just want a system that works and i have to solve it somehow.
Because i have to work with it. And i want it to function properly.
I am brand agnostic, but i do have a bank account that is finite.
I choose what works for me best with my given setup for a given amount of money.
I do notice trends and see if i can have some benefit from those trends...

 

[Markfw]

To be clear on my power usage comments. Specifically for the 2 computers I powered off, below are the calculated rates not including A/C which I am guessing may cost as much as the power. Both computers are using Xeon socket 1366 chips@ 3.0 ghz, not overclocked, and both run using SSD's

=0.4*24*30*0.0757 = 21.80 (not counting the A/C) for my AMD 290 @ 300k ppd (400 watts per kill-a-watt)
=0.34*24*30*0.0757 = 18.50 (not counting the A/C) for one of my GTX 980's @ 400k ppd (340 watts per kill-a-watt)

So for $3.30 a month (about 60 watts more) (again not counting A/C) I get 75% of the performance on the 290

If you calculate that A/C costs $40 a month more for those 2 computers, thats the $80 a month I save.

So yes, power usage can be a consideration. In this case the extra the AMD card uses costs me about $6.50 a month more for one card for 75% of the performance. of the Nvidia card, and they both cost close to the same at purchase time. (The Nvidia was about $50 more, 350 vs 400, 12% more ??)

Is that more clear ? and thats at a cheap 7.5 cents a kWH

Edit: The power bill went from $348 to $261 after they were shut off. There could be a few days less or more, but it was pretty consistent before at $350

 

[Ferzerp]

Honestly I think the problem is bigger than just VC&G. I see it in the news all over the world. Radical Islam thinks their way is right and nobody, anywhere, should drink alcohol or allow unveiled women. The pro/anti gun folks hate each other with as much venom as the pro life/choice folks. Sport fans often come to blows over games. A soccer match once triggered a war between two nations. It just seems intolerance is much more visible these days.

I suspect part of the problem is inability to realize people are different. The Windows 8 lack of a nested start menu is the perfect example. Some people like to pin shortcuts all over their desktop and don’t need a start menu. Others prefer a clean desktop with all apps in the Win7 style start menu. So many people (at least the ones who post in forums) think their way is the “right” way (which is true for them) and that’s how everyone should do it (which is where they fail).

Whats important to me may not be whats important to you, and whats important to me in this situation may be different in another situation.

I'd like to say that it's because the internet allows for the echo chambers needed for zealotry to reach critical mass, but I suspect people have always been this way. That said, internet-age "journalism", and "social" media enable it quite a bit. I know using scare-quotes is cliche and all, but at least for the second one, the social part is the biggest misnomer I've ever seen. In the world where the click is king, humanity suffers. Then again, why is the click king? Because everything under the sun is ad supported.

Maybe it's time to ban advertisements, and let the world pay the cost for entertainment in direct costs

 

[Rifter]

I dont understand it either. It seems people these days get way to into one side or the other and get irrational when confronted with something that doesnt show their side in a good light.

Both sides have upsides and downsides, both sides have lied/done shady deals/things at one time or another, both side are in it to make money, and both sides will do whatever it takes to part you from your money, thats their job.

As consumers its up to us to research a product that suits our needs, and its best to ignore brand preferences to do this and base it on the products performance for your specific needs. But this is far from easy..

This is where the problem lies alot of the time IMO, most reviews use max setting and higher resolutions than alot of people play at, so it can be hard to judge whats best for your specific needs. As what might be the best card at 1440P or 4k may not be the best buy for a consumer wanting to play at 1080P. So people come to forums, and get overwhelmed by the red green showdown thats going on with most forums. It must really suck to be a consumer that knows nothing about GPU's but is in the market for one.

That and most reviews use games geared towards the side they are trying to support, as most review sites are either red or green. This is so clearly apparent especially in some of the GTX 1060/1070/1080 reviews that didnt even use vulkan for doom because the RX480 does so well in it and they dont want people to see a RX480 so close to a 1070, even though the GTX1060/1070/1080 also perform better with vulkan. So they are letting their bias hurt the perceived performance of the brand they are trying to support, the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish..... This is truly bizarre to me when i saw this happening it made me view alot of review sites in a much different light.

Why more review sites cant just be brand neutral is beyond me. just pick the currently most popular 3-5 Nvidia supported games and 3-5 AMD supported games. Make a review. Simple. But instead we get sites cherry picking games to support whatever side is giving them the most kickbacks at the time.

At the end of the day you need to just identify what you want in a GPU and get the one that fits with that in your price range, ill illustrate my current GPU buying thought process below for anyone interested as i just purchased a new one.

I wanted:

1. Card to last and age well for 4-6 years.
2. VR compatable
3. $600 max budget
4. strong 1440P performance, maybe 4k next year with new monitor.

I did some preliminary research and settled on a 1070. Then i did more research and found out the 1070 and all new nvidia cards were weak in DX12/vulkan compared to the RX480/AMD in general. So likely not to age well over next few years as all games switch to DX12, thus failing my first want list item.

I then identified that what i want is not available at this current time so i purchased a RX480 as a stopgap to use for 1-2 years. At that time ill take a look at nvidias new generation, see if they have picked up their DX12 performance, see how big AMD GPU makes out, and at that time purchase the best AMD or Nvidia card that meets my needs listed above.

Only reason i went 480 over 1060 is because when i upgrade in a year or two ill give the 480 to the girlfriend who is currently still rocking a 5870, and im sure the 480 will be a longer lasting better performing card than the 1060 in the long run.

So i think for the most part i got the best GPU currently available that fits into my specific needs.

 

[3DVagabond]

People just take themselves way too seriously. That and there has to be some with extreme self worth issues. After being here a while I can't imagine why people get angry, offended, etc. because of what some faceless, nameless individual on a forum says.

Trust me when I say this, You could take everything that's posted here, put it all together, and you'll still need $5 to get a good cup of coffee. It's of zero value. Certainly nothing to get fired up about. And for those few who it might be important to because it's their job? Shame on you for hiding that fact and not being transparent about your true intentions.

 

[bononos]

Is it just me or does it seem like the GPU space has more hostility than it did in years past?

First of all there is of course green team vs red team, but where before that was a battle of benchmarks today it is a battle of economic "morality" and futility.
.......

It was worse when Rollo was around. You can check the other forum where he is a mod and it also worse there.

 

[Lepton87]

1. Card to last and age well for 4-6 years.
2. VR compatable
3. $600 max budget
4. strong 1440P performance, maybe 4k next year with new monitor.

I did some preliminary research and settled on a 1070. Then i did more research and found out the 1070 and all new nvidia cards were weak in DX12/vulkan compared to the RX480/AMD in general. So likely not to age well over next few years as all games switch to DX12, thus failing my first want list item.

I then identified that what i want is not available at this current time so i purchased a RX480 as a stopgap to use for 1-2 years. At that time ill take a look at nvidias new generation, see if they have picked up their DX12 performance, see how big AMD GPU makes out, and at that time purchase the best AMD or Nvidia card that meets my needs listed above.

Only reason i went 480 over 1060 is because when i upgrade in a year or two ill give the 480 to the girlfriend who is currently still rocking a 5870, and im sure the 480 will be a longer lasting better performing card than the 1060 in the long run.

So i think for the most part i got the best GPU currently available that fits into my specific needs.

Good choice man, if you wanted a card to last at least 4 years you would get burned if you had chosen the 1070. I wasn't so smart and I'm afraid I will get burned because I chose the 980Ti over the FuryX. I'm pretty sure NV won't bother to support my card in the future at all other than basic legacy support just to make it obsolete. Seriously that planned obsolesce is just ridiculously obvious they don't even try to hide it.

 

[Juntsenstriemar]

I blame it on AMD fanboys. They all so desperately want AMD GPU's to be good, so they argue about how power efficiency doesnt matter and how AMD GPU's are "gonna be good" eventually when DX12 finally takes off a year from now. It's irritating.

I think that trend was started from years of defending hot and power hungry Fermi chips from nVidia. Basically anyone that calls the other side "fanboys" is guilty of whatever they are accusing other ppl of. You're also using a psychological device called "minimizing" by saying "eventually when DX12 finally takes off a year from now.". Major AAA games are being released THIS year with DX12/Vulkan support so its a very very relevant topic for GPU buyers to be aware of.

 

[Keysplayr]

See. Its happening even while its being discussed as the topic. There's no getting away from it, save for maturity. Too deeply seeded.

 

[Qwertilot]

Well it isn't so bad so long as it stays with gpu's. The same mindsets invading politics is seriously scary.

People really do like echo chambers though and they're so very easy to construct for yourself nowadays.

 

[grant2]

Is it just me or does it seem like the GPU space has more hostility than it did in years past?

Nope.

Some AT forum members will blow their tops if you dare to complain about Matrox graphics cards or doubt the impending supremacy of Parhelia.

 

[Insomniator]

Yeah GPU scene has always been like this, not sure why people get so divided or give so much of a crap. Depending on what month of history you pick, you pretty much have had cards at all price levels and all performance levels available from one side or the other -- playing the same games looking exactly the same in each segment. One texture is a little blurry in some screenshot though and there is a 40 page thread about IQ cheating. Or one card is 10% too expensive/cheaper and its the worst or best purchase in the history of man-kind... give me a break.

I've been back and forth between AMD and Nvidia since my TNT era... same games regardless of the GPU brand.

 

[Ranulf]

See. Its happening even while its being discussed as the topic. There's no getting away from it, save for maturity. Too deeply seeded.

Ahh, calls for maturity. Years of space heater jokes did nothing to ferment anger. Mark may have a good argument on power usage but he's also got high power bills by choice, as he runs DC rigs.

Well it isn't so bad so long as it stays with gpu's. The same mindsets invading politics is seriously scary.

People really do like echo chambers though and they're so very easy to construct for yourself nowadays.

Don't delude yourself, that mindset was in politics from the begining of time. You're seeing more divisiveness because there are more media sources available. Sources that are contradicting long held views promoted by long trusted outlets. When you've got only a few news stations/websites etc. those media outlets are going to control the narrative. Why are websites closing down comments or going to facebook only comments? This applies to politics or tech news.

Why are a lot of video game news and review sites failing and youtube reviewers gaining audiences?

 

[Markfw]

Ranulf, I may have high power usage, but my point was that if I used less efficient cards, the bill would be even higher, and by quite a lot.

 

[USER8000]

Ranulf, I may have high power usage, but my point was that if I used less efficient cards, the bill would be even higher, and by quite a lot.

Which means nothing if usage patterns are not taken into account though!! I remember somebody on another forum saying to get a more expensive GTX1060 over a cheaper RX480 since it consumes less power,but when you looked at their system spec,they had an overvolted and overclocked CPU,a motherboard known for not being that efficient and on top of this could not be bothered switching off their PC.

At this point,I LOLed.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Trust me when I say this, You could take everything that's posted here, put it all together, and you'll still need $5 to get a good cup of coffee. It's of zero value. Certainly nothing to get fired up about.

Eh. It matters to me and obviously others because we keep coming back.

I like to talk/read about technology and I admire that people have passion for GPUs as that passion is gone from most others parts of technology. The next iPhone will be boring. SSDs are all fast enough. CPU is i5 Intel or bust. I could go on point being this is the last subforum where people are passionate about technology.

I don't see a problem with people debating with passion that keeps me coming back. The problem is the hostility when someone has a different set of priorities than you. I feel there is a lack of respect for other's priorities on here.

Honestly this whole thread is about red vs green which is missing the point. Seems like that isn't the only dividing line. I made the thread because of a post bashing miners I couldn't make sense of, and I see plenty of other divisions: 1080p 60 vs 1440p people or 144hz people, desk gaming vs couch gaming, high end gamers vs low end. So much hostility.

I do appreciate the talking it through though.

 

[Keysplayr]

Which means nothing if usage patterns are not taken into account though!! I remember somebody on another forum saying to get a more expensive GTX1060 over a cheaper RX480 since it consumes less power,but when you looked at their system spec,they had an overvolted and overclocked CPU,a motherboard known for not being that efficient and on top of this could not be bothered switching off their PC.

At this point,I LOLed.

So the system was taxed. Makes sense to use the more power efficient gpu then.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Exactly. Always annoys me when posters use "you use power for x,y,z" to justify inefficient cpus or gpus.

 

[frozentundra123456]

dp

 

[railven]

Eh. It matters to me and obviously others because we keep coming back.

I like to talk/read about technology and I admire that people have passion for GPUs as that passion is gone from most others parts of technology. The next iPhone will be boring. SSDs are all fast enough. CPU is i5 Intel or bust. I could go on point being this is the last subforum where people are passionate about technology.

I don't see a problem with people debating with passion that keeps me coming back. The problem is the hostility when someone has a different set of priorities than you. I feel there is a lack of respect for other's priorities on here.

Honestly this whole thread is about red vs green which is missing the point. Seems like that isn't the only dividing line. I made the thread because of a post bashing miners I couldn't make sense of, and I see plenty of other divisions: 1080p 60 vs 1440p people or 144hz people, desk gaming vs couch gaming, high end gamers vs low end. So much hostility.

I do appreciate the talking it through though.

Not sure if you are a miner, but you have to sort of look at it from the perspective of people who have zero interesting in mining. A product they've been waiting for his finally released and is hit with a shortage supply that is exasperated by miners. I'm not saying miners are bad, but when posters are venting their issues finding a product it isn't helped when miners chime in "I just picked up 8 cards, try harder."

And then even in this thread you said:

Honestly what bugs me much much worse is those whose loyalty is cheap.

As a person who was in that situation and got muscled out of buying an AMD card because of price gouging - you sort of leave some of us out in the wind. I've said it before, and I continue to see it - there are some buyers buying Nvidia not out of desire or wish to switch sides - but because the AMD side is dry bone and miners are rubbing salt in the wounds.

Again, not a dig at miners, but you openly said you created this post because you seem to not understand some of the hostility towards miners. When I wanted to buy a 290X it was >$650 versus the recently price cut GTX 780. Before people start to argue longevity, at the day of purchase the cards were relatively similar. You can't have posters in this thread arguing "the logical choice" yet condemn some NV buyers for not idling sitting by while miners destroyed AMD's price / perf advantage.

When 290X went dirt cheap, I picked up two, but returned them due to power/heat issues. I ended up with one even less than before.