HOT! Beyond TV Software...$60

[corinthos]

i received an e-mail after i downloaded the trial version of Beyond TV offering me a bundle deal for pvr250 + beyondtv for $179 or so... if you're in need of a hardware tv tuner/capture card AND are set on getting Beyond TV as well, then you might want to consider this bundle... the pvr250 was going for about $107 after taxes and rebate at CompUSA recently... so if you need it along with BeyondTV, this is a decent price assuming there aren't any shipping fees/taxes.
I'm probably going to go with MythTV under linux instead...

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: psxjunky

Originally posted by: superflysocal
best thing i like about snapstream is the ability to broadcast tv to any computer on the network or even over the internet....basically i turned my laptop to a truly portable tv i can take around the house. yes i know you can do that with windows media encoder but with snapstream you can change the channels also, turning it to a true tv. can sagetv do this?

SageTV has a dedicated client application that you can run anywhere on your network. You can not only play back recorded shows thru this client, but also can view channel guide, schedule recordings, view live TV ... basically do pretty much everything that you can do using the SageTV server app.

Theoretically you could do this over the internet provided your firewall is properly setup and you have a fat enough data pipe between the two locations. Also, SageTV records programs directly into MPEG2 files, so you can always access those files directly and play them thru any other app if you wish.

Remote recording scheduling thru the web is one thing that BeyondTV does now that SageTV doesn't do yet ... but version 2.0 of SageTV is supposed to have this feature. Public beta testing of version 2.0 is going on right now and all registered users of SageTV v1.4 are eligible to download the v2.0 beta and use it.

Also, all registered users of v1.4 SageTV will get v2.0 for FREE once it is released.

I still don't see your point.

I wasn't trying to make a point ... I was just answering his questions

THe ONLY things that beyond TV is bested in is, from reviewers, image quality and the music catalog ability.

No, there are a couple others - like stability (which many people commented on), multiple tuner support, support for software filters and dscalers, intelligent recording etc.

Overall, Beyondtv records to meg2. I am actually recording weigtheringheights on TCm on this PC>

As for stabiltiy, Beyond TV has NEVER crashed. I did have one problem where when I tried to access the configuration during my set show squeeze(batch compression) times, It wouldnt let me access the interface, but other than that itwas fine. So far, I have recorded about 20 movies, 30 programs etc and encoded them all into divx. NO problems.

I had only tried BeyondTV for a short time and my experience wasn't pleasant. The UI in BeyondTV is very nice but I didn't like the web based configuration interface. Also, BeyondTV crashed at least 3-4 times in the one week that I tried it. On the other hand, I have been using SageTV for about 5 months now, and it is yet to crash on me.

AS for the webnbased stuff, BEYOND TV IS DOMINIANT.

Agreed. BeyondTV is the leader here. Sage is supposed to support this in released ver 2.0 but without actually seeing it it is kinda hard to compare

Network streaming is nice, and I can stream whatever I want(mpeg2, divx, wmv obviously)

I thought BeyondTV only allowed network streaming when using the WMV format ... not MPEG2 or anything else.

BUT I can do so from ANY computer ANYWHERE. Sage's client must be installed, which is not universally conveniently.

You don't need to have the Sage Client installed. Sage always records in MPEG2 and the resultant files play in any MPEG2 player. So as long as you have access to the recorded files, you can play them from anywhere. The Sage client just gives you the additional features of SageTV, like program scheduling, live TV, favorites management etc. For only playback you don't need the client.

On two seperate ocassions, I have set up future recordings from two of my college campuses. Also, the streaming of TV to anywhere is awesome.

No argument here ! Remote program scheduling over the web is a VERY nice feature and Sage doesn't have it yet !

As for the Hardware encoder, I realize its superiority, but honestly have nothing to complain about. I am using software and ffdshow, and my recordings are spectacular. The divx movies I make are fantastic. I understand that deinterlacing provides crappy performance on my pc, but my output is to a 25'' inch tv so it isn't necessary.

Basically, I will buy Beyondtv unless I ever get a wintvpvr 250 or 350 (not likely)

My experience with two different software encoder cards (ATI AIW 8500DV and WinFast TV2000Deluxe) has been quite bad. The CPU usage has been almost 100% whenever any recording is going on, and the picture quality has been much worse, that too with stutters and skips.

I am glad that software encoding it working for you. It is just that I am not a happy camper there ... and I have heard quite a few other people share my experience.

 

[hamburglar]

so it seems like you need a pretty fast computer to use beyond tv. I have a 1.3 GHz with Winfast TV, but I haven't tried recording in divx. Can anyone else share their experiences?

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I just tried SageTV as I wan't recording anythign right now, and I was REALLY disapointed.

The interface is a lot worse compared to BeyondTV's.

You probably tried version 1.4 of SageTV. Yes, the interface in version 1.4 was really ugly (though it is very functional, once you get past the ugliness )

However, the interface in version 2.0 has been vastly improved and I now like it better than that of BeyondTV. Plus the released version of SageTV will come with SageStudio, a utility that will allows users to create their own SageTV skins.

See a sneak peek of Sage 2.0 interface here -- http://www.sage.tv/beta.html

After reading the AVSforum link, it looks like they were reviewing an older version of each.

They said future BeyondTV versions would use the .NET framework. WEll, the new version DOES. Now.

Beyond TV is the superior prodcut. Perhaps Sage TV has more functionallity(Only SOME areas) such as supporting multiple tuners etc, but Beyond TV's package is VERY user friendly, and VERy customizable.

Yes, the AVSForum thread is from November of last year and they were comparing the older versions of both products.

To each his own, but I have tried both and to me SageTV has proven to be a lot better app than BeyondTV. Both offer trial versions, so I guess anyone interested can try both out and decide which one works better in a particular situation.

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: corinthos
i received an e-mail after i downloaded the trial version of Beyond TV offering me a bundle deal for pvr250 + beyondtv for $179 or so... if you're in need of a hardware tv tuner/capture card AND are set on getting Beyond TV as well, then you might want to consider this bundle... the pvr250 was going for about $107 after taxes and rebate at CompUSA recently... so if you need it along with BeyondTV, this is a decent price assuming there aren't any shipping fees/taxes.
I'm probably going to go with MythTV under linux instead...

Correct. Both SageTV and BeyondTV offer hardware bundles with their applications.

SageTV with WinTV PVR 250 $169.95 and other bundles
BeyondTV with WinTV PVR 250 $179.99 and other bundles

 

[weepul]

do u know if either Sage TV or Beyond TV will work with ATI AIWs? i have a radeon 8500 aiw.

//krunk (^_^x)

 

[corinthos]

if you're using a hardware encoder like the pvr250, you won't really need as powerful a computer as you would if using a software encoder.

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: weepul
do u know if either Sage TV or Beyond TV will work with ATI AIWs? i have a radeon 8500 aiw.

//krunk (^_^x)

BeyondTV should work ... SageTV won't as none of the ATI AIW cards (except for the E-Home Wonder) contain hardware encoder

 

[scarfase99]

for those interested, STAY TUNED!!! Both SageTV & Snapstream(Beyond) are coming out with full media products to compete with Windows Media Center, and look very cool. Snapstream even has their own remote comin out

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: scarfase99
for those interested, STAY TUNED!!! Both SageTV & Snapstream(Beyond) are coming out with full media products to compete with Windows Media Center, and look very cool. Snapstream even has their own remote comin out

:beer:

 

[mrbojangle]

Snapstream is the best windows based PVR out there. Paid $50 about 6 months ago, and worth every penny. Upgrades are frequent and useful, the interface is great, I can skip commercials, set recordings from my cell, and basically do just about everything as far as TV is concerned. Snapstreams developing a full fledged media center as others have mentioned, but since my setup is based around my PC and not around a dedicated HTPC for my TV, I can play my MP3's in winamp if I really need to.

I have a Winfast TV2000XP Card from the popular Newegg deal. Uses BTWINCAP generic BT8xxx Drivers to run TV w/BeyondTV. Runs like a charm, and it was very cheap. Even used Girder to configure the remote.

 

[IBuyUFO]

I have winfast xp deluxe and it works with beyond tv. I didn't have to do any work around. I just installed the drivers from leadtek's web site, installed beyond tv and used the configuration wizard.

 

[corinthos]

did you guys who used tv2000 deluxe cards have a problem with channels not being in tune? i got some static like the channels weren't fine tuned and couldn't find an option to fine tune like you can with the leadtek software...

also in both beyondtv and leadtek's pvr software the audio in the tv recordings sound awful... i have the audio connected to my onboard 6channel ac97 sound via the supplied leadtek external cable. not sure if the leadtek's audio just sucks when recorded or if it's some configuration/setup issue causing it. during normal tv viewing the audio is fine.
maybe i'm not choosing the right audio source in the setup menu for the leadtek pvr where it let's you select that in a pull-down menu.

 

[souja]

Snapstream BTV is great. I just got done with my 21 day trial and decided I could not live without it. Not a single hiccup during the entire trial. I tried SageTV but could not get past the ugly interface. I might give it another shot when the new one comes out - multiple tuner support would be awesome. Although Snapstream is testing it and coming out with that option in an upcoming release.

Shell out for a Hauppauge PVR250, you will have a much better PVR experience on your PC. Hardware cards encode the audio and video on the fly as in comes in from the cable as opposed to the software ones which need to sync to your pc sound and use the majority of your cpu - therefore less syncing problems with the hardware card. Plus it does not tie up your PC as much.

When I am watching live TV with timeshifting (recording a 1-hour buffer so I can rewind, pause, etc.) my cpu usage is only 20-30%, allowing me to easily do anything else with my computer without disrupting the recording. While recording in the background with liveTV off, the cpu usage is as low as 5%.

Circuitcity has them on sale for $99 after rebates from time to time. Also Newegg had them for $104 refurbed a few days ago. There is also a code in the box that will give you 10% off any of the Snapstream packages. I ended up paying $168 for the card/software bundle from Snapstream. I had to take the card I got back from Circuitcity as there was a problem with the audio recording anyways.

Here is a very good article on the differences between software and hardware cards:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pvr/pvr7.shtml

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: souja
Snapstream BTV is great. I just got done with my 21 day trial and decided I could not live without it. Not a single hiccup during the entire trial. I tried SageTV but could not get past the ugly interface. I might give it another shot when the new one comes out - multiple tuner support would be awesome. Although Snapstream is testing it and coming out with that option in an upcoming release.

Shell out for a Hauppauge PVR250, you will have a much better PVR experience on your PC. Hardware cards encode the audio and video on the fly as in comes in from the cable as opposed to the software ones which need to sync to your pc sound and use the majority of your cpu - therefore less syncing problems with the hardware card. Plus it does not tie up your PC as much.

When I am watching live TV with timeshifting (recording a 1-hour buffer so I can rewind, pause, etc.) my cpu usage is only 20-30%, allowing me to easily do anything else with my computer without disrupting the recording. While recording in the background with liveTV off, the cpu usage is as low as 5%.

Circuitcity has them on sale for $99 after rebates from time to time. Also Newegg had them for $104 refurbed a few days ago. There is also a code in the box that will give you 10% off any of the Snapstream packages. I ended up paying $168 for the card/software bundle from Snapstream. I had to take the card I got back from Circuitcity as there was a problem with the audio recording anyways.

Here is a very good article on the differences between software and hardware cards:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pvr/pvr7.shtml

Thanks


This is what I do not seem to understand however.
My CPU usage when encoding to "Best" Mpeg2 quality with audio is only @ 30%. I can play Wolfenstein ENey territory perfectly when recording.

When encoding those files to divx later is another sotry. 100% throughout, but that is nothing new.

 

[psxjunky]

Goose: This is very surprising to me also, since you are the first one I heard who is not seeing high CPU usage during software encoding. Just like DivX encoding, when you are recording a TV show without a hardware encoder card, the CPU is actually encoding the stream to MPEG2. The process is less intensive than MPEG4 encoding as in case of DivX, but is still taxing enough to show a high CPU usage (unless you have a really powerful CPU and a fast FSB).

I am curious what kind of a CPU you have. What's the specification for the rest of your machine ?

 

[BurningDog]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Thanks


This is what I do not seem to understand however.
My CPU usage when encoding to "Best" Mpeg2 quality with audio is only @ 30%. I can play Wolfenstein ENey territory perfectly when recording.

When encoding those files to divx later is another sotry. 100% throughout, but that is nothing new.

thats b/c when you're encoding from live tv, your computer only has to keep up with the video in real time. Whereas when you try to re-encode to divx, its reading video from the harddrive as fast as it can.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: BurningDog

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Thanks


This is what I do not seem to understand however.
My CPU usage when encoding to "Best" Mpeg2 quality with audio is only @ 30%. I can play Wolfenstein ENey territory perfectly when recording.

When encoding those files to divx later is another sotry. 100% throughout, but that is nothing new.

thats b/c when you're encoding from live tv, your computer only has to keep up with the video in real time. Whereas when you try to re-encode to divx, its reading video from the harddrive as fast as it can.

Exactly. My point is that my machine can IN FACT encode mpeg2, or at least it looks like it is, at the 27fps it needs to.


From reading, and my own experince, I think the hardware encoder's main advantage, besides superior quality,is plain and simple reliability. My recordings have had hiccups when recording one showand compressing another simultaneously. I am sure that the hardware encoder would prevent that, but for my budget and my current results, it is not necessary.

P.S>

I just found that half of my movies wer GONE:Q

Damn Beyond TV sets all program folders to expire programs by default. It has been a few days, so it decided o delte my recent compressions:|:|:|


I set it correctly, but sooo many good movies were delteed.


Ben-hur, Lawrence of arabia...and amny other

 

[corinthos]

do hardware encoders really produce higher quality captures? from what i've seen in other threads, the ability of software encoders to do multiple passes results in a higher quality final product. so it seems that the main advantage of a hardware encoder is the ability to offload your CPU, enabling you to do other things at the same time without a performance hit. so if you want to play battlefield 1942 while recording a tv program you can do so with greater ease than if using a software encoder. i think another benefit of a hardware encoder is in systems with 2 tv tuner cards used to do two recordings or viewings simultaneously. having 2 software encoder cards means you need two connections to your soundcard or two soundcards (to my knowledge anyway), but if you have 1 software encoder and 1 hardware encoder like the pvr 250, you don't run into that problem since the pvr 250 records to mpeg2 on-the-fly and the audio is integrated in the final product you actually see. you just need to hook up audio from the software encoder card to your soundcard. another option if you want to use only software encoder cards is to find two wintv 401 cards that have btaudio support built-in (it's hit or miss and there's no way to know if your 401 card has this capability short of testing it) making it unnecessary to connect the tv tuner card's audio to the soundcard. btaudio is supported under mythtv for linux i think.

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: corinthos
do hardware encoders really produce higher quality captures?

Yes ... at least this has been my experience with the Hauppauge 250 cards. I get far superior audio-video quality from this card than I ever got using the ATI AIW 8500 or LeadTek WinFast TV2000XP Dlx.

from what i've seen in other threads, the ability of software encoders to do multiple passes results in a higher quality final product. so it seems that the main advantage of a hardware encoder is the ability to offload your CPU, enabling you to do other things at the same time without a performance hit. so if you want to play battlefield 1942 while recording a tv program you can do so with greater ease than if using a software encoder. i think another benefit of a hardware encoder is in systems with 2 tv tuner cards used to do two recordings or viewings simultaneously. having 2 software encoder cards means you need two connections to your soundcard or two soundcards (to my knowledge anyway), but if you have 1 software encoder and 1 hardware encoder like the pvr 250, you don't run into that problem since the pvr 250 records to mpeg2 on-the-fly and the audio is integrated in the final product you actually see. you just need to hook up audio from the software encoder card to your soundcard. another option if you want to use only software encoder cards is to find two wintv 401 cards that have btaudio support built-in (it's hit or miss and there's no way to know if your 401 card has this capability short of testing it) making it unnecessary to connect the tv tuner card's audio to the soundcard. btaudio is supported under mythtv for linux i think.

The multi tuner is actually a huge advantage that you probably won't realize until you actually start using it (kind of like using PVRs in the first place). I use 4 simultaneous tuners with my SageTV system and don't think I can live without them. It is not that I am always recording 4 shows at the same time ... but I often need to pad the beginning and ends of shows because some of the network clocks are deliberately screwed up (like my local NBC and FOX stations always start shows a minute or two early). Without having multiple tuners, I would either have to give up the padding feature, or would have to cancel entire shows which overlaps probably just by a minute or two. Now I don't have to worry at all and can keep on scheduling programming wihout having to constantly trying to juggle the priorities.

BTW, SageTV handles multiple tuners flawlessly !

 

[souja]

It depends on what you mean by 'higher quality'.

Software encoders do have the capability to encode at a higher *visual* quality than hardware ones. The advantage to software ones is that you can pick the compression algorithm, or, if you can deal with *huge* files, you can even save the stream as a raw, uncompressed file.

Hardware encoders are limited to whatever compression the onboard chip does. *Everything* that passes through the card is automatically compressed and there are very few options to control the quality of the encoding. For example, you cannot save a stream directly to wmv for streaming, you'll have to recomress the file afterwards. You also cannot use a hardware card as an output for game consoles (ps2, xbox) because there is a 1-2 sec lag due to the automatic compression of the video signal.

The 'higher quality' of the hardware card comes in the form of less dropped frames and less audio sync problems - the result, a better overall quality. On a software card, if you are in the middle of recording and you happen to overload and slow down your system, you will probably get a hiccup at that spot. This is expecially true for PVR as you are dealing with live TV streams where you are on the clock - unless you have a software card with a dedicated machine.


Here is the simple gist:

live tv timeshifting, PVR, TiVO-like, usage -> hardware card
post processing, ripping DVDs, playing video games - > software card

 

[ww4397]

Thanks for the thread.

For you guys that have got BeyondTV streaming LiveTV to your laptops (or other home network box), are you able to change channels on the laptop? I can't. As pointed out in their instructions to enable channel changing on the laptop, I have LiveTV running only on the laptop while the main box just has the home server running. The button to Stop LiveTV on the laptop is working but, the channel change buttons are greyed out. The only way for me to change the channel is to go to the main box, start LiveTV there and change the channel. The laptop channel changes accordingly.

I've searched all over snapstream's KB and forums but couldn't find an answer. I hope someone here can help.


BTW, I'm using an AverTV Studio card with BTWIN drivers on an XP Pro machine.

 

[M0NEYSH0T]

http://www.mythtv.org/

 

[richardycc]

anything for hdtv pvr?

 

[sat4fun]

Originally posted by: richardycc
anything for hdtv pvr?

MyHD Card. I do not have one, but it is said to work well.