HOT! Beyond TV Software...$60

[psxjunky]

btmdragons - I personally don't feel a laptop is an ideal machine to use as a PVR. Having said that, in order to convert either of the above laptops to a PVR, you must get an external TV tuner and given that you only have 40GB diskspace in either configuration, an external hard disk on a high speed connection (UDB2.0 or FireWire) is HIGHLY recommended since decent quality MPEG2 video takes up a lot of space (anywhere between 2GB-3.5GB per hours worth of recorded shows).

For the external TV tuner, Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 is probably your best bet and this is readily supported by SageTV.

Oh, and you also need the SageTV software itself

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: btmdragons
Could someone help me. My question is this, say I want to buy a laptop with AMD XP-M 2500+ processor with 256MB of DDR SDRAM and a 40 GB hard drive, 1) what would I need to make Sage TV work on this laptop (or simply, what would I need to make this laptop a portable Tivo machine)?

Say I bought a new HP zv5000z series notebook with a AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3200+ 2.00 GHz, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 40 GB 4200 RPM HD, and a 64MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(TM) 4 440 Go Graphics Card. 2) What would I need to complete my "moble TiVo" then?

Basically, I want to replace my outdated desktop with a laptop and have the features of a PVR. What kind of set up would I need for a laptop to do this? FYI I don't want to have to buy a new computer for at least 4 years.

Sorry I'm new to this technology. I've read Sage TV's website and know very little about PVR's. Thanks in advance for any info.

You'll need to make sure the laptop has USB2 ports and then pick up an external TV tuner that does hardware encoding, such as Hauppage's model. There aren't many on the market that are external though. Also, you'll probably want to pick up a large external hard drive that's USB2 or firewire, because this TIVO action eats up space like mad. I have 200 gigs dedicated in my SFF for it, encoding at roughly 3 gigs/hour.

 

[AlvinKlein]

Originally posted by: btmdragons
Could someone help me. My question is this, say I want to buy a laptop with AMD XP-M 2500+ processor with 256MB of DDR SDRAM and a 40 GB hard drive, 1) what would I need to make Sage TV work on this laptop (or simply, what would I need to make this laptop a portable Tivo machine)?
Say I bought a new HP zv5000z series notebook with a AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3200+ 2.00 GHz, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 40 GB 4200 RPM HD, and a 64MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(TM) 4 440 Go Graphics Card. 2) What would I need to complete my "moble TiVo" then?

You basically need a laptop that's powerful enough to play mpeg 2 at about DVD-quality smoothly. So either of those AMD that you listed will do. And you should have 802.11g as your wireless setup, 802.11b is possible but at the expense of picture quality (lower recording data rate). And a copy of Sage-Client (~$30).

Other things you need, your old desktop to serve as Server, + a Hauppauge pvr250 pci card (see Sage's website for other supported tuners, but you won't do better than the Hauppauge for this purpose) + a copy of SageTV (~$60).

I'm currently doing just this, I have a dedicated PC with SageTV server + 2 Hauppauge pvr250 cards (so I can record 2 shows at a time), running SageTV 2.0.14 beta. It's very stable so I leave this pc on 7/24.

My laptop is an HP p4-1.7 with mobility Radeon, + a 802.11g wireless + Sage-client. This setup works perfectly for my "mobile tivo". I could pretty much do anything on the client that I could do on the server, and the picture quality is great.

Or are you thinking of being able to do this outside of your home network? If so then you will need a hauppauge usb2 pvr + sagetv. And then you will only be able to get over the air station with an antenna.

 

[Slickone]

Originally posted by: psxjunky
This is what I would recommend --

Case - Athenatech A106 $52 at Newegg (comes with 200W PSU and front LCD panel)
CPU - AthlonXP 2000 or above ($52 and up)
Mobo - any good microATX board ... like Biostar M7VIG PRO D $48 or Biostar M7NCG 400 $60 or ASUS A7N8X-VM400 $90 or Chaintech 7NIF2 $80 etc. (more here

Total: about $150 and upwards for a decent HTPC with LOT more upgradability than you'd get with the tiny SFF case ...

That case is nice, but I just don't really have the room for it. What about this Antec Minuet Slimline?, or this Cooler Master?

Though I'd rather have one of these flat ones for my A/V rack or on top of the TV, I could get one of the Shuttle SFF cases on my TV, if it's a better case.

If you wanted to upgrade video, can you fit any video card in these? Any other needed parts different than normal? Can I fit two TV tuner cards in there?

 

[LC1104]

i have a question. right now i'm using beyondtv trial. i have two problems

1 - why is it always hovering at about 20-30% cpu usage even when not recording? it's not doing anything yet eats up cpu?
2 - i cannot find a way to set my line in volume without having the program overide it to set it to max volume everytime it starts. this is bad becuase at full volume it's distorted.

i know these are questions that should be on the snapstream forum, but i do not want to register and all that. plus everyone on anandtech is techie. heh.

thanks!

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: psxjunky
This is what I would recommend --

Case - Athenatech A106 $52 at Newegg (comes with 200W PSU and front LCD panel)
CPU - AthlonXP 2000 or above ($52 and up)
Mobo - any good microATX board ... like Biostar M7VIG PRO D $48 or Biostar M7NCG 400 $60 or ASUS A7N8X-VM400 $90 or Chaintech 7NIF2 $80 etc. (more here

Total: about $150 and upwards for a decent HTPC with LOT more upgradability than you'd get with the tiny SFF case ...

That case is nice, but I just don't really have the room for it. What about this Antec Minuet Slimline?, or this Cooler Master?

Though I'd rather have one of these flat ones for my A/V rack or on top of the TV, I could get one of the Shuttle SFF cases on my TV, if it's a better case.

If you wanted to upgrade video, can you fit any video card in these? Any other needed parts different than normal? Can I fit two TV tuner cards in there?

The Antec Minuet case is very nice, but it can only accept low-profile cards (which are about half the height of standard PCI cards). BE VERY CAREFUL when selecting a case like this that will only accept low-profile cards ... you will be severly limited in your choice of expansion cards later on. In fact, right now there are only two decent TV cards with hardware encoding that are available in low profile (ATI E-Home WOnder being one of them). Similarly you will be severly restricted in your choice of video card and must find one which is half height.

I don't know about the Coolermaster case, and without looking at the back panel I can't say if it can only accept low profile cards or not.

Did you actually look at the measurement of the Athenatech A106 case ? I have one of these, and even though it accepts full height cards, the case is pretty darn small.

 

[cordite]

Originally posted by: btmdragons
CBasically, I want to replace my outdated desktop with a laptop and have the features of a PVR. What kind of set up would I need for a laptop to do this? FYI I don't want to have to buy a new computer for at least 4 years.

Your expectations are awfully high. Just the four year thing is a tricky one unless your primary use will consist of email, word processing, web browsing and little else.

It's not impossible, but you should really consider a desktop for PVR functionality and something like SageTV's client on your laptop. You can set up a fairly low end desktop as your server provided it has a hardware encoder like the PVR-250. I'm using a PIII 700 based system myself without any problems.

 

[Slickone]

For some reason, Cooler Master's webpage for that case isn't working. But a review is here though. Seeing the dimentions, I don't understand why it's so big. Why is it a SFF case/why does it only use micro ATX mobos? Heck, that's the same size or bigger than my normal size Compaq desktop ATX case at work. The expansion slots are std. height though. And yes, the Athenatech is actually smaller, but I need something that can sit horizontal.

 

[psxjunky]

Sorry I didn't clearly mention this before ... but the Athenatech case is designed to sit BOTH horizontally and vertically. In fact I have mine installed horizontally right now.

From the pictures of the CoolerMaster case, it does look like it will accept full height cards ... so go with it if you find that suitable.

The CoolerMaster is just a regular MicroATX case though ... it is NOT a SFF case. Strictly speaking, the "Shuttle Form Factor" (or "Small Form Factor" as others would like to call it) is a specific form factor like the ATX and MicroATX and only the cube shaped PCs (Shuttle SN41G2, Biostar IDEq etc) meet that description.

 

[psxjunky]

Here is a review of the Athenatech A106 case with LOTs of pictures showing both horizontal and vertical installation

 

[Slickone]

Originally posted by: psxjunky
Sorry I didn't clearly mention this before ... but the Athenatech case is designed to sit BOTH horizontally and vertically. In fact I have mine installed horizontally right now.

From the pictures of the CoolerMaster case, it does look like it will accept full height cards ... so go with it if you find that suitable.

The CoolerMaster is just a regular MicroATX case though ... it is NOT a SFF case. Strictly speaking, the "Shuttle Form Factor" (or "Small Form Factor" as others would like to call it) is a specific form factor like the ATX and MicroATX and only the cube shaped PCs (Shuttle SN41G2, Biostar IDEq etc) meet that description.

I see. No, the Cooler Master is too large. I would rather have a SFF cube than it.

Good review on the Athenatech. Actually that'd probably do nicely. And the drives are actually already horizontal. Too bad the LCD display isn't. And no firewire.

Any others?

 

[huesmann]

Originally posted by: psxjunky
And I am using 4 tuners in my SageTV machine right now without a single hiccup. Works absolutely flawlessly

Damn, dude, you must watch a lot of TV!

 

[PBMax]

Originally posted by: LC1104
i have a question. right now i'm using beyondtv trial. i have two problems

1 - why is it always hovering at about 20-30% cpu usage even when not recording? it's not doing anything yet eats up cpu?
2 - i cannot find a way to set my line in volume without having the program overide it to set it to max volume everytime it starts. this is bad becuase at full volume it's distorted.

i know these are questions that should be on the snapstream forum, but i do not want to register and all that. plus everyone on anandtech is techie. heh.

thanks!

1. If you are watching Live TV then you are recording. You are recording at all time in live TV so you can timeshift
2. If you run the setup wizard again and get to the last page there is a volume slider next the the preview video. This is where you set the recording volume.

 

[jgmcinnis]

Kinda off topic, but can anyone tell me the difference in quality (if any) between software & hardware cards as it relates to watching live (not time-shifted) TV. I'm looking for a card primarily for watching live TV on a flat panel in my kitchen. I may later get into the PVR aspects, but would like to have the best pic quality. Cable TV by the way. THANKS!

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: huesmann

Originally posted by: psxjunky
And I am using 4 tuners in my SageTV machine right now without a single hiccup. Works absolutely flawlessly

Damn, dude, you must watch a lot of TV!

Hehe ... that I do

Sometimes though the multiple tuner is useful not because you are actually recording two shows at the same time, but because you can afford to "pad" the recordings a little bit at the beginning and end and not affect other scheduled recordings. Most major networks in my area uses skewed clocks ... like Fox and NBC always start their shows two minutes early and CBS always ends a couple minutes late

However, with the "padding" feature of SageTV I can add 5 minutes of padding at the beginning and end of each show and make sure I get the whole thing. So if a show is supposed to air from 7:00-7:30, this will actually record from 6:55-7:35. In a single tuner scenario this would conflict if there was a show scheduled from 6:30-7:00 or from 7:30-8:00 ... but with an abundance of tuners I never have to worry about that stuff anymore !

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: jgmcinnis
Kinda off topic, but can anyone tell me the difference in quality (if any) between software & hardware cards as it relates to watching live (not time-shifted) TV. I'm looking for a card primarily for watching live TV on a flat panel in my kitchen. I may later get into the PVR aspects, but would like to have the best pic quality. Cable TV by the way. THANKS!

For normal viewing in a "kitchen" any card will do as long as the software supports it(sage TV only supports HARDWARE encoders...no software. )


But for the best image quality, you will want to deinterlace the image, which uses a LOT if processing power. I recommend a hardware encoder if you are bent on absolute quality and the machine is slow.

 

[Probedude]

Originally posted by: psxjunky
And I am using 4 tuners in my SageTV machine right now without a single hiccup. Works absolutely flawlessly

How do you sample audio and compress it on 4 different tuner cards at the same time? Or does the Hauppage PVR250/350 also hw compress the audio all by itself? (I thought that most sw compressed the audio from the audio card).

Dave

 

[sxr7171]

There are laptops with built in TV tuners these days, and I think Toshiba makes a Windows Media Center Laptop which means it has hardware mpeg encoding also. With an internal 80 gb and external 200 GB you can probably have a decent mobile TIVO. The problem is that these laptops are the huge desktop replacement kind that are usually quite a bit bigger and heavier than an actual TIVO.

 

[psxjunky]

Originally posted by: Probedude

Originally posted by: psxjunky
And I am using 4 tuners in my SageTV machine right now without a single hiccup. Works absolutely flawlessly

How do you sample audio and compress it on 4 different tuner cards at the same time? Or does the Hauppage PVR250/350 also hw compress the audio all by itself? (I thought that most sw compressed the audio from the audio card).

Dave

Dave - I am using the coax input on all four Hauppauge 250 cards, so the video and audio are all multiplexed into the same line. The 250 also has a separate audio input that you are supposed to use along with the S-Video or Composite video inputs ... so I will have to guess that it is compressing the audio also.

Which would also explain why I get perfect audio video sync with the 250 which I have always had problems with on the software based cards (like the WinFast TV2000).

 

[zinkpig]

psxjunky,
so you have 4 cable boxes ? and 4 ir emitters ? how are you managing this

 

[psxjunky]

No, I have analog cable that does NOT need a set top box ... so I have a coax cable coming out of the wall that goes thru a powered splitter before getting into the 4 cards.

But you are on the right track. *IF* I needed a cable box (or satellite receiver, for that matter), I would need 4 of those boxes and 4 IR blasters to control them.

 

[Probedude]

Which would also explain why I get perfect audio video sync with the 250 which I have always had problems with on the software based cards (like the WinFast TV2000).

I'm looking forward to this! Before I was using VirtualDub to manually setup and capture a TV show, and the audio was always way off.

Now I'm going to either put a BTV or SS system together with my $69 PVR250MCE I just got. I just need to decide and buy an IR blaster.

Dave

 

[psxjunky]

For IR Blasters, Actisys IR200L $40 and USB UIRT $50 are two popular choices.

 

[zinkpig]

psxjunky,
I am just building a HTPC with one 350 and a 250. I plan to use analog cable with one (350) and settopbox with the other (250) . Is there any way to build a serial cable for controlling the set top box ..I have the comcast ( motorola dct 2244) cable box. Which card do you recommend for tv out . I will be using the same PC . I dont plan on using a monitor at all this will sit below my tv (thinking of trashing the vcr )

 

[psxjunky]

zink: First, a word of caution. If you are mixing a 250 with a 350, make sure they are both using the same conexant chip, i.e. CX23415. If your 250 is newer, it will most likely use the newer CX23416 chip ... which is not yet compatible with the older CX23415 chipset based cards and you will have a lot of hassle getting them to work together (it is not impossible, but you need a lot of work and a bit of luck). The older cards (CX23415) uses a black heat sink on the chip. The newer chips run cooler and hence don't need a heat sink ... so you can just read the chip number off of it.

Yes, if your settopbox allows serial control, you can easily build a null modem cable to control it. The SnapStream online store also sells cable packs which may work for you.

For TV out, ATI cards seem to give the best picture quality on TV. For an HTPC only usage you don't need a very powerful card ... so try to get a fan-less 9600 non-pro. However, if you plan to use this for gaming also, then a 9600PRO or 9800PRO may be a better choice.

I too use the TV only as monitor.

Good luck !