hot deals on a PSU

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
okay, now most people don't understand the importance of a good power supply unit. I myself just built a new system and need a new PSU. I spent a lot on my other parts and created a true monster. Given that, I originally bought some junk 400w power supply knowing that my old 300w sparkle wasn't going to cut it anymore. After much research I know why my new 400w was a complete failure, it was even worse then my old 300w sparkle. Despite what many have said and stated there really is only a couple things to look for in a pwoer supply and total max peak wattage is NOT IT. Just because something claims to be 600 watts only means that maybe it might hit 600w in a blue moon and immediately fry everything in a 10 ft radius but it's actuall operating wattage is a crappy 100 watts.

What to look for in a PSU... total +3.3v and +5v COMBINED wattage. In the above example my old 300w sparkle had a rating of 180. More then enough for anything less then the new p4's and xp chips and systems but finally falters at the new system requirements. My new 400w (brand name I won't mention) was a measly 160w. The reason this is important is because the motherboard, cpu, agp/pci, and usb devices all run off this part of the power supply. Your HDD's, optical drives, and a few case fans/lights run off the 12v lines which make up the rest of the wattage. These devices don't draw nearly as much wattage usually as compared with everything running off the 3.3v/5v lines. The new XP's and P4 systems really require a minimum of 220 watts total for the +3.3v/+5v lines combined wattage. Many of the newer 450+w PSU's provide just that 220w minimun but cost an arm and a leg. There are however a couple PSU's that won't and I consider VERY hot deals for the quality you get out of them

350W fortron/sparkle fsp350 model for $48 shipped from newegg right now

this has a total wattage of 220w for those rails with a less then 1% variance on any of the given lines. This means that no matter how hard you push the power out of this supply the power coming from it will never dip below it's specified amount and crash your PC. Also, power supply has been shown to actually have a MAX wattage of 454 from testing all the lines combined +/- 3.3/5/12.

The other one I can recommend and it's actually even a bit cheaper but I put it second compared with the above is the

450W true power Allied ATX450BE model for $46 shipped from newegg right now

While allied power supplies in the past have been absolute crap this new product is their very first attempt at trying to turn themselves around and it's looks to finally be a winner. It's total combined wattage for the +3.3V/+5v lines is 230 watts! The variance while under max load is less then 3% (still better then the defacto standard of 5% that other more expensive "good" PSU manufacters adhere by) and has a max output wattage measured over 500W for all the lines combined +/- 3.3/5/12.

So if you are looking to finally fix those blue screens of deaths or checksum errors in your current system, or are looking to upgrade what you have but are worried if your power will handle the supply, or are building a new system from scratch then look no further then these 2 PSU's. Cause you won't find anything better for the price PERIOD. As for those fancy colors, or double fans, or other gimical crap, well those companies can keep them until they come out with a product that beats either one of these for these prices.

Sorry about the long informative post on an actual hot deal but most people are sooooo completely unaware of how to tell a difference between a good psu and a crap one that finding a antec true power 430 for $60 might sound like a hot deal until they realize what they are buying is overprices junk.

For more information for the curious here are some really good discussions about power supplies.

Link 1
Link 2
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Originally posted by: Maelsturm
are you a PSU salesman or something?

LoL!

I just ran a search and Antec didn't come up, so I stopped reading

Chiz
 

DurocShark

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
15,708
5
56
Thanks for the post! I worked in a computer shop for over a year before realizing the importance of a good PSU. Back in the Pentium 200 days, we took whatever came with the case. And we used the cheapest cases around (scars still visible on my hands from raw cut sheet metal).

It wasn't until I loaded up a P200mmx box with striped SCSI drives and a SCSI burner and 256mb of RAM that I discovered the average 230w PSU wasn't up to it. Kept blue screening and we couldn't figger out why. Ordered a 330w PSU (forget the brand) and no more blue screens. Whew. I was worried because my customer was gettin antsy about getting his machine.
 

AtomSmasher

Member
May 19, 2000
129
0
0
LOL !!!. Looks like your PSU costs a little more than $48 so I don't know if it qualifies as a hot deal. However, it doesn't come from Taiwan or China so it's quality is top notch
 

WileCoyote

Senior member
Aug 4, 2000
694
0
0
thanks for all the info Humble Pie
i'll take it into consideration when I purchase my next psu.
 

oLLie

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2001
5,203
1
0
Nice thread. It combines good information with what looks to be 2 pretty good deals.
 

rootaxs

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 2000
2,487
0
71
I'll vouch for the Forton, i do have the 300w version but according to Toms Hardware Fortron's tend to pump more power than it's rated so i'm okay with that

Right now it's powering an XP1700+/512 DDR333/4 7200 HDD's/DVD/CDRW/G3 Ti200 o/c to Ti500 speeds/Firewire/USB's/Sound/etc. I've oc'd the xp to higher speeds and it's still stable though i had to scale back due to poor cooling conditions.

Btw, got mine from Directron for about $27.
 

Replay

Golden Member
Aug 5, 2001
1,362
65
91
250 Watts Combined 3.3v + 5v for $18.99. Discussion Here. High quality new pulls from Compaq servers. Not for P4. Made by LiteOn. Link Here.
 

dude

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
3,192
0
71
I ended up getting an Antec 480 from newegg anyways because I guess I wanted a piece of mind.
 

MrMet

Senior member
Aug 19, 2001
306
0
0
Damn good post. Informative and a few decent deals as well. Nice Job Humble pie.....
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,447
10,117
126
Bump for high-quality Fortron Source PSUs. Was looking for a cheap FSP PSU myself a week ago, where was this thread then?

I recently had to replace a generic "L&C Technology" 300W ATX supply that came in my full-tower case. Burned it out under the load of my new MSI KT4V-L and XP1800+ (running at 166Mhz x 10.0 now, can't OC higher, think the PSU is holding me back actually). Currently running with another 300W generic (slightly better than the original, but not by much) "Premier" brand PSU. Lightweight cheap junk all around. Perusing the PSUs for sale at Microcenter online, I noticed that they were selling the 250W AOpen PSU (same one in a friend's high-quality HX-09 case, powering a fully-loaded 1Ghz Coppermine BX6 system) for $70, and it had an "FSP" model number, so it looks like AOpen uses Fortron Source PSUs with their own label on them. FSP PSUs highly recommended!

 

BubbaJudge

Member
Jul 9, 2002
74
0
0
Great post, power supplies are always overlooked, and your rig can only be as good as the juice going into it.

Ive found the best place for everyday low prices on powers supllies, incredible selection, and one of the few places that sell Fortron by name, is Directron.

They have that 350fsp for $38 +shipping.

Personally, for my OC'ed rigs I go with either Fotron or Antec 550 True powers, and Tripplite Line conditioners(thats another thread in itself)

Oh, linky to Fortrons at Directron, heh

link
 

mndeg

Junior Member
Dec 28, 2002
10
0
0
Originally posted by: AtomSmasher
LOL !!!. Looks like your PSU costs a little more than $48 so I don't know if it qualifies as a hot deal. However, it doesn't come from Taiwan or China so it's quality is top notch

huh? Taiwan makes the best electronics, you do realize that almost ALL motherboard manufactures are from taiwan right?

The per capital of Taiwan is 5x more than China.
AMERICANS
 

vtqanh

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
3,100
0
76
The post contains really good information. However, for your information, P4/XP system does not require 220W.
I'm running P4 2.53 Ghz with Intel motherboard, AGP vid card (geforce2 Pro), 1 Turtle Beach sound card, Linksys network card, 2 usb (one mouse, one printer). All of that suck the power from an Enermax 350W with 185W +3.3 and +5V combined. only 185, yet the system has been extremely stable. Before the P4, i was running XP 2400+ (all the rest remain the same, except for the motherboard, of course!!!).

180W combined is enough, if the power supply can deliver that output all the time. Enermax is expensive, but it's worth it
 

vtqanh

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
3,100
0
76
Originally posted by: crash
HumblePie,

How do you calculate combined wattage?

It should says on the PSU itself! Or you can check the specifications from the manufacturer's website
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
vtqanh says,

The post contains really good information. However, for your information, P4/XP system does not require 220W.
I'm running P4 2.53 Ghz with Intel motherboard, AGP vid card (geforce2 Pro), 1 Turtle Beach sound card, Linksys network card, 2 usb (one mouse, one printer). All of that suck the power from an Enermax 350W with 185W +3.3 and +5V combined. only 185, yet the system has been extremely stable. Before the P4, i was running XP 2400+ (all the rest remain the same, except for the motherboard, of course!!!).

180W combined is enough, if the power supply can deliver that output all the time. Enermax is expensive, but it's worth it

Okay.. there is a threshold limit here. There are a few sites, including AMD's site which shows a nice table with some average wattage draws from things in a typical system. Basically this is the power draw breakdown in order from most to least used:

CPU
Motherboard (all the busses)
AGP video card (and trust me a radeon 9700 pro draws more power then a geforce 2)
Memory (more you have more power you use)
add on cards (sound, modem, ethernet, blah blah, and ohh sound blaster live cards will draw more power as a PCI card then any other because they are never idle since one of the units on the card forces information to always be sent to it, which is why people have had more problems with this card then any other)
Hard drives (uses the 12v)
Optical Drives (uses 12v)
Floppy drive
USB devices
Anything else you might add (lights and other things usually use the 12v lines as well)

These all are powered by the power supply. While in your case everything runs fine right now with your enermax putting out only 185 watts, this may not be enough when you add on another USB device (as was my case). Or if you try thinking to yourself you might over clock you may find you have won't be able to. This is because the CPU draws power off the 5v mofets on the board. Enermax usually has a ripple or variance on the voltage of 5% under normal conditions and up to 7% or more under heavy load. This means your 5v rails will test out on a multimeter under 4.65v or lower. This will prevent you from overclocking at all and may cause stability problems even without overclocking under stressful conditions.

crash asks,

HumblePie,

How do you calculate combined wattage?

well, it all depends on the PSU I'm afraid. Because while one might say it is capable of one thing, doesn't mean it actually is. Normally you determine the wattage on a line based of it's voltage rating and how many ampheres of current move through it. For example, if a +3.3v line is rated for a max load of 28Amp power draw then the max wattage is 92.4 watts. That fortron/sparkle has a 28Amp for the 3.3v line and 32A through the 5v line. So the 3.3v line is 92 and the 5v line is 160. This means it should be 250 max combined wattage. Problem is both the 3.3v and 5v lines run through the SAME circuit in all single processor designed ATX PSUs. This one circuit has a maximum draw rate as well. For the fortron it's 220watts. In fortrons case since the parts are top notch quality you can eek quite a bit more then 220watts through that circuit. This means if you are drawing alot on the 5v side you will not draw as much on the 3.3v and vice versa. In some specialized power supplies designed for multiple processors or racks with many pci devices. These have seperate circuits for both the 3.3v and 5v lines so those lines can reach their max wattage draw.

So the fortron 350watt power supply has a max wattage draw on the +3.3v and +5v lines of 220 watts. It has a max draw of 180 watts on the 12v. While the 12v lines have their own regulating circuit they still share some components with the other lines and thus the max wattage ends up being 350watts for that power supply. Fortunately, some PSU manufacterers use top notch parts that not only meet their specifications but exceed them. Others really don't come close. Fortron for that price is the best of the best. It garauntees no more then 1% noise in the line so the 5v would be is 4.95 to 5.05 range. The allied listed there is 3% so it would range from 4.85 to 5.15 volts. This is still much better then the average which is a 5% standard. Only fortron and PC power&cooling turbo cool psu's have 1% tolerances. Antec claims to have only a 3% variance but some of their psu's are 3% and some are outa specs at 5% variance. Vantecs are 3-4% and everything else is 5% or more period.

That fortron 350 watt PSU is MORE then ample to power any home rig out there. Unless you have a mounted server rack in your house with dozens of drives and pci devices you won't need anything else. If you do have a multiple processor, many drive and device racked system, you probably are going to look for specialized power supplies.

Also, directron does have a great price on the fortron PSU for everyone not in texas Since I live in texas it's cheaper for me to buy from newegg heh.
 

pspada

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2002
2,503
0
0
My systems all run off a 9v battery!

Seriously, I've purchased several of the "cost-effective) tower cases w/350w PS from Compgeeks like this one:

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=500SEL

and never had a problem. Several times they had 400w PS, and always with those lame-ass extra 2 odd connections for some Pentium m/bs.
 

vtqanh

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
3,100
0
76
Originally posted by: HumblePie
vtqanh says,

The post contains really good information. However, for your information, P4/XP system does not require 220W.
I'm running P4 2.53 Ghz with Intel motherboard, AGP vid card (geforce2 Pro), 1 Turtle Beach sound card, Linksys network card, 2 usb (one mouse, one printer). All of that suck the power from an Enermax 350W with 185W +3.3 and +5V combined. only 185, yet the system has been extremely stable. Before the P4, i was running XP 2400+ (all the rest remain the same, except for the motherboard, of course!!!).

180W combined is enough, if the power supply can deliver that output all the time. Enermax is expensive, but it's worth it

Okay.. there is a threshold limit here. There are a few sites, including AMD's site which shows a nice table with some average wattage draws from things in a typical system. Basically this is the power draw breakdown in order from most to least used:

CPU
Motherboard (all the busses)
AGP video card (and trust me a radeon 9700 pro draws more power then a geforce 2)
Memory (more you have more power you use)
add on cards (sound, modem, ethernet, blah blah, and ohh sound blaster live cards will draw more power as a PCI card then any other because they are never idle since one of the units on the card forces information to always be sent to it, which is why people have had more problems with this card then any other)
Hard drives (uses the 12v)
Optical Drives (uses 12v)
Floppy drive
USB devices
Anything else you might add (lights and other things usually use the 12v lines as well)

These all are powered by the power supply. While in your case everything runs fine right now with your enermax putting out only 185 watts, this may not be enough when you add on another USB device (as was my case). Or if you try thinking to yourself you might over clock you may find you have won't be able to. This is because the CPU draws power off the 5v mofets on the board. Enermax usually has a ripple or variance on the voltage of 5% under normal conditions and up to 7% or more under heavy load. This means your 5v rails will test out on a multimeter under 4.65v or lower. This will prevent you from overclocking at all and may cause stability problems even without overclocking under stressful conditions.

To better clarify my point, i did not mention that i am using two hard drives (one IBM deskstar and one Western Digital 80 MB Special Edition with 8 MB cache), one Lite-on DVD-ROM, one Lite-on CD-RW. I went ahead and did some test to prove my point, i hooked up one more printer (i took it from my sister's printer) and another scanner (also from my sister's computer). So right now i'm running my computer with 4 USB slots occupied, 2 IDE slots fully occupied (2 devices per IDE slot). I turned both printer off and on again (to bring it to online status), scan a picture (to warm up the scanner). At the same time, i open Age of Mythology, which would consumer 100% my CPU (since a Geforce2 Pro is not enough for Age of Mythology, it's gonna put a huge load on the CPU). Everything is running fine.

Why is it that an Enermax 350W is more expensive than an allied 450W? That was my point. Ok, i have to put the printer and the scanner back now before my sister gets mad!

 

SharkyTM

Platinum Member
Sep 26, 2002
2,075
0
0
I agree with a lot of folks, and their reviews of Fortran Source PSU's... i bought one over 2 years ago, used it to run unbelievable groups of hardware... like 6 harddrives, 4 cdroms, 2 neons, and 14 fans.

Now, i run an enermax 650... i wont even go there.....
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |