HOT..."half-price" Cadillac STS

[SLEEPER5555]

I would never personally buy one (but i would love a current S class, heehee) But they are solid cars in every way, the only problem i have seen with alot of them is the paint, which alot of cars for that time line have paint problems because of the enviromentalist wackos make laws that won't let car companies use cancer causing panit and paint hardeners. Now to get a decient paint job on a car it has to be done in a place like South Africa (where they can still use the good stuff)

And yes German cars hold their value better than any other car, while american cars come in last as far as holding value (but both of my cars are american, because i can't afford C32)

 

[gtd2000]

<< On the land rover comment i meant the new little rover (don't know name) It shares alot with fords and other brands owned by ford. Another case of ford killing a formerly good name plate! >>



I don't know what your source for this information is?

Rovers were mainly based on Hondas for a very long time.
This started back in 1981 with the "Triumph" Acclaim which was just a rebadged Honda Civic with slightly different trim.

Rover is also now owned by BMW to my knowledge - unless Ford recently bought them out - Honda severed their lonks with Rover due to this I believe.

The new Mini is almost 100% a German designed car.

 

[Vette73]

The new Rover is 100% FORD!!!!

BMW sold rover as BMW lost a PILE of money on it.

Ford is doing the same thing with rover they did with Jag. They take a new ford or Linc. and just put a Jag or rover badge on it add leather and charge about 10K more.

But the good part about ford owning Jag is now Jag will at least be more reliable. The old ones with Lucas parts SUCK. I know I am a mechanic and have worked on just about everthing out there and the old Jag. like a old Porsche is a money pit, if you have one I hope you have a back-up car.

 

[Bob61]

<< I own both domestic and foreign (jap) cars. There is no comparison between the quality of a Honda and a GM car. A good friend of mine's brother was a manager at one of the plants in Detroit. He is eligeble for the full corporate GM discount. You know what he buys for his family? Top of the line GEO's because they are made in Japan. He said if you saw what goes on in the plants over here, the lack of care in the production, you would never buy a car here. Now I know some Honda's are made here in the states, but I believe they are non union shops.

Another friend is a Pontiac dealer mechanic. He recomends staying clear of most every GM car as well.

I still love both of my GM cars (1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans AM & 87 Buick Grand National) but they are what they are - GM cars. >>



And this one time at band camp....

 

[ksclay]

What ever happened to horses?

 

[Ogewo]

Turboman:

Which of your two cars is faster? The grand national looks like it was designed with the middle aged pedophile in mind but it still ROCKS.

By the way i'd check the car for bullet holes and zitti before buying. that's right i watch the sopranos, i know whats up.

gew

 

[TurboMan]

<< And this one time at band camp.... >>

You must be a die hard "buy American" person. Sorry to hear it.

The TurboTA is faster than the Buick Grand National but the Honda is made better

 

[huesmann]

Rover is not the same as Land Rover or Range Rover.

 

[mesach]

FWIW

Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, Lincoln, Mercury, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin...

any of these with the exception of the Aston, I can through my work purchase from Ford for 4% over MANUFACTURERS cost, i get them for better than the dealers get them for, no hassle, no haggle, i just walk up say i want that car and i wanna talk to the manger, i tell him a pin and show him my company ID, and he tells me the price.

AND I get ANY deals that ford is offering at the time, so $2000 cash back? 0% APR, what ever they are offering CHA CHING!!!!

unfortuately my credit is horrid, so no one will finance a car for me. hehe(but bad), if i can find a Ford Dealer that will do the proverbial "no one is turned down" bit i would get a 2002 or 2003 sport trac

so if you know of any dealers in the LA area that do the "no one is turned down" bit let me know

 

[HKS]

Apparently you know so much, since you don't even know the name of the car that you're trying to bag on! It's the FreeLander... (new landrover) and what Ford does that share parts with?

10,000 to the price is stupid... but you can't say that they're exactly the same car. Even if they were EXACTLY the same car... the cost of marketing a Lexus is much higher than a Toyota, and is built into the cost of the car as well. Plus, the warranty on a Lexus is longer 4/48 I think while the Toyota is 3/36. CL and TL used to be Accords when they shared the same engine, but now the CL/TL use the 3.2L. The CL and TL are pretty much the same car though.

Finally, all car companies are starting to or already do built off the same platform. If I remember correctly, VW has 18 cars built off the same platform!




<< Ok first off i meant to say these edits (sorry i was tired and the brain was shutting down)

Some (edit i menat to say land rovers) are fords just $10,000 more

I feel part sharing is one thing but selling a toyota (edit i meant to say camry sorry) as a lexus es300 and adding $10,000.00 to the price is just wrong as are the idiots who pay it!

On the land rover comment i meant the new little rover (don't know name) It shares alot with fords and other brands owned by ford. Another case of ford killing a formerly good name plate!





<< no caddy is a chevy, but the CL and TL are accords and the RSX is a civic, es300 is a camry, i35 is a maxima, and a lincoln used to be a ford but not anymore.


bentley and the current rolls factory are owned buy VW, but the funny thing is that VW and BMW were really bidding for rolls royce, and neither of them realized that rolls royce is actually a trademark of the jet engine maker, who came forward after VW outbid BMW for the rolls factory. VW then didn't have enough money to outbid BMW for the license to the name rolls royce, so BMW will produce cars under that name. >>



Bzzzz "sorry but you are incorrect" the Caddy Escalade is a tahoe with different headlights and grill! The interior is almost exactly the same. and dont forget the EXT opps i mean avalanche! >>

 

[mesach]

yep i know that the AUDI TT is built off of the beetle chassis, if you look at it it looks like a beetle that got stepped on and then marked up $20k

the A4 is an overgrown passat, and the new SUV thats coming out, PORSCHE has one too... pretty much the same thing, diff power plant tho and few amenities, and im sure a $20k Price hike

every just makes a few minor cosmetic changes, the biggest being the rebadging, then calls it another vehicle and charges more.

 

[crazyman]

RockOn123
you've got the right idea....let someone eat the massive depreciation and then drive it when they are done and save some serious bucks...i've got a friend that every year or 2 sells his car and buys a new(to him) one. He gets some nice luxury car (usually 4-5 years old that someone put some nice miles on it) and shops around till he gets a good deal (he isnt' tooo picky so he is open to a good deal). Once he finds a good deal he puts on 30,000+ more miles and then often sells it for the same amount he paid for it. So he is essentially driving merceded,bmws, caddys for the same price that people drive new ford escorts (per miles). Glad to see that caddys are treating you nice

 

[Liguid]

If you ask me, i would rather get one of these:

Rx-7
97 Supra Twin Turbo
Lexus is300
92-99 Mustang Cobra

Nice Racing cars
Except for the is300 but still fast

On the other hand the Rx-7 and the Supra will be hard to find.

 

[SLEEPER5555]

<< Apparently you know so much, since you don't even know the name of the car that you're trying to bag on! It's the FreeLander... (new landrover) and what Ford does that share parts with?

10,000 to the price is stupid... but you can't say that they're exactly the same car. Even if they were EXACTLY the same car... the cost of marketing a Lexus is much higher than a Toyota, and is built into the cost of the car as well. Plus, the warranty on a Lexus is longer 4/48 I think while the Toyota is 3/36. CL and TL used to be Accords when they shared the same engine, but now the CL/TL use the 3.2L. The CL and TL are pretty much the same car though.

Finally, all car companies are starting to or already do built off the same platform. If I remember correctly, VW has 18 cars built off the same platform! >>



I never have claimed to know all and never will, but yes that is correct the freelander is what i was referring to, It was in a receint Motortrend or Car and driver where they outlined what it shares with other fords, but i do not have this info in front of me (maybe someone who has a subscription here and has the last couple months issue's can school this dude?)

Have you seen the Toyota Camry and the Lexus ES300, the exterior with the exception of headlights and possibly taillights (can't remember now) are exactly the same one has an L on the front the other has a T, the interior is also the same design, while they come with different options and price tag's they are the same car! maybe the warrantee is a year longer I am not sure but for the price difference it should be a few years longer!

And last but not least not all car companiesshare platforms as you state, there are still many companies that use pure platforms and don't try to make their cheapo car a luxo! This thread is way offtopic so we should stop now, but like chester cheatah used to say "It ain't easy being cheasy"

 

[S13SilviaK]

The freelander shares with the escape, although it could hardly be called a rover simply because the car was designed by ford while under their control.

For a previous post BMW owned rover now ford does but ford is going to have to eat the cost of the new range rover engine because the design is BMW's and the design is to far along for them to throw a ford in there.

Also as far as price is concerned the ammenities/luxury/warranty hardly have much to do with the price. It's all dealer markup. I personally have bought an infiniti I30 new cheaper than I could have gotten a new maxima at the time. It's all about how you bargain.

And with the comment that everyone shares platforms? Check out BMW/Benz they under all circumstances have wholly used chassis and parts. They are also some of the worst cars on the road...my family has had more computer/suspension problems with our BMW's than any other car we've owned. My dad continues to buy them though...why because he's stupid (that's what I say,) but whenever you sit in one of those things and feel the car swallow you in, hit the gas and fly you know 50k was reasonible.

I'm buying a new truck, guess what it's a ford ranger. I know it's a POS before I even have the keys in my hand but I have no choice, what else is there to get Toyota? Toy truck with plastic parts, small, uncomfortable and on top of that twice what a fully loaded ranger costs. Dakota? Lousy drivetrains, I don't need my driveline flying out at 80 on the freeway. Chevy? POS 'enuff said.

So that's american cars/trucks for you I would buy american ie GM/Ford if they made a better product but they don't. Even in the truck market where they are essentially uncontested by the japanese and euros they still show little to no effort to improve, hell from 1995-1999 Rangers had a known electrical problem that could cause the truck to light up and ford did nothing.

All this aside, who cares if jap cars are this, american cars are that. This guy has a good deal on a cadillac...why probably because nobody is buying them. So if you want a good deal go get yourself into a caddy and pay for it later...or not who knows you could get lucky. If your in the market for a caddy you know all the drawbacks...so let's get on with the deals.

 

[gtd2000]

<< I'm buying a new truck, guess what it's a ford ranger. I know it's a POS before I even have the keys in my hand but I have no choice, what else is there to get Toyota? >>



Well it's a Mazda BXXXX really isn't it?

When did Ford buy out Rover? (I'm a Brit) I didn't hear about that living over here ya see... and which model is the 100% ford?

The Freelander was out for ages (years) in the UK before it ever came to the States. I remember reading an article in a US magazine where they said the Freelander copied some US model styling that was on the market...even although the Freelander was available years before that model (I assume)

There are also Fords (SUV's & MPV's) in the UK/Europe that are shared platforms with Nissan and Volkswagen and Seat.

They also build Mitsubishis (Carisma?) in Holland that are shared platforms with Volvos.

Not many cars around the world are unique anymore.



<< Check out BMW/Benz they under all circumstances have wholly used chassis and parts. They are also some of the worst cars on the road...my family has had more computer/suspension problems with our BMW's than any other car we've owned. >>


Actually an old GF's father was the same - had endless problems with BM's. He eventually bought the (UK) Ford Escort and was much happier (crappy car if u ask me).

A mechanic that lives next door to my mother described BM 3-series as a "well screwed together Ford Escort"...lol

Me - I buy Jap cars I drive a Nissan 240SX SE with the US truck engine installed unlike the UK/Euro/Jap versions...

 

[gtd2000]

This is confusing me?


<< The freelander shares with the escape, although it could hardly be called a rover simply because the car was designed by ford while under their control. >>



Is the US version a different variant to the UK version? Rover must have been working with Ford years ago then?

Some info

Some Land Rover info...

The Freelander came out in 1998 according to this article - Rover were sold to Ford in 2000.


<< Land Rover Freelander 1998.
bodystyle, 5 seats, 4 doors, driver's airbag
loa: 4382mm (inc' spare), width: 1805mm (2074mm mirrors), height: 1757mm
approach: 30, ramp-over: 156, departure: 34
weight: 1425kg (unladen), GVM: 1960kg (petrol), 2050kg (diesel)
K-series, 1796cc, petrol, 4-cyls, mpfi, 4-valves/cyl, dohc
bore: 80mm, stroke: 89.3mm, c.r.: 10.5:1
L-series, 1994cc, diesel, 4-cyls, direct injection, 4-valves/cyl, sohc
bore: 84mm, stroke: 88.9mm, c.r.: 19.5:1
transmission: 5m, the gearbox drives the front wheels directly and the rear wheels through a viscous coupling, no cntre diff'
suspension: MacPherson-strut/MacPherson-strut, brakes: disc/disc, ABS on XE models
tyres: 195/80R15 on steel 5.5Jx15 std, 195/80R15 on alloy 5.5Jx15 (5 door XE), 215/65R16 on alloy 6Jx16 (3 door XE) or 225/55R17 on alloy 7Jx17 (accesory), fuel tank 59L
also available as 3-door: 4-seats, 1425kg, softback version has removable rear roof
insurance rating: NRMA 16 points
prices: 3-door softback i 27,950, XEi 31,950, hardback XEi 33,450, 5-door wagon i 30,950, XEi 34,950, di 32,950, XEdi 36,950;
options (all models): air-con 2000,
options 5-door i/di: ABS+ETC+HDC+air-con 3,800 (Aus 1998)
rivals: Subaru Forester, Toyota RAV4
>>



Source but that is in Australia - may have been earlier in the UK.

 

[dajeepster]

I'm with the person about the S2000... wish I didn't have to sell mine to buy a house... I think I could have lived in the 2 seater for awhile instead of the house

 

[LittleWolf]

bolido2000


<< ES300 is not a more expensive Camry (go and check the specs for the camry V6 and ES300), but a more expensive Avalon.
Audi is almost the same as VW except for the A8. the TT/Jetta/Bettle are pretty much twins
>>



Wrong, the ES300 is a Camry Clone and not a Avalon Clone. The Avalon is infact the parent platform for the LS4XXX series, the top line LExus. The engines of the ES and Camry are very similar except for a freer exhaust and some minor tweaks. Please check your info and re-read the specs in more detail before commenting.

About the Audi being same as the VW, yeah right, the VW comes with a 2.7T engine, full independent aluminium suspensions, Air-suspensions, 4.2 V8, Aluminium A2 etc , the list goes on... You have no clue my friend.


mesach



<< yep i know that the AUDI TT is built off of the beetle chassis, if you look at it it looks like a beetle that got stepped on and then marked up $20k >>


Er, there is world of difference between the Bug and the TT even though they are built of the same platform. To start of with the handling, performance and not to mention Quattro. I am not even talking of the luxury and various other features. Only the latest Bug model has the same engine (180hp) as the TT. But then the TT had the engine for the past 2 years and is due for an overhaul.




<<
the A4 is an overgrown passat, >>



You have no clue do you? The Passat is actually based on the A4 platform. The Passat is kinda an in between the A4 and A6 models in terms of dimensions. And while the Passat is best in it's class (read topline Camry, Accord, Volvo, Maxima) ofcourse it is no where near as sporty as the A4. Not to mention that Audi offers a much more choice of engines etc..

[q
and the new SUV thats coming out, PORSCHE has one too... pretty much the same thing, diff power plant tho and few amenities, and im sure a $20k Price hike[/i] >>



Incorrect again. VW collaborated with Porsche to help build their new SUV. While the basic frame and certain components will needless be shared, they are geared as totally different vehicles. The Porsche will be the king of the road, easily beating the BMW X5, AMG MB etc.. The VW SUV on the other hand will be geared more towards genuine offroading and will compete with the likes of the base MB, BMW, Lexus, Acura MDX, Trailblazer, Jeep Grand Cherokee etc..



<<
every just makes a few minor cosmetic changes, the biggest being the rebadging, then calls it another vehicle and charges more. >>



There is a difference between just cosmetic changes and rebagding and genuine platform/module sharing. Ford, GM, Toyota, Acura etc tend to do more of just cosmetic stuff, while the others (like VW etc) are more genuine platform sharing. Going ahead VW, Audi are going to be even more distinctive, unlike the Fords, GM, Toyotas which just pretty much slap different bagdes.


-j

 

[S13SilviaK]

Escape

Here's the model I was refferring to.

Could be mistaken but they look identical. Although the Freelander came out in 1998 that doesn't mean ford didn't colaborate on it. All I know is that what the current U.S. Freelander is riding on is Escape parts. But I have ridden in one of the little buggers and I would hardly put it up to par with a Range/Land Rover or even the Defender. On a side note what we get here in the U.S as far as the whole Rover family are fairly weak in all categories.

I've always heard excellent things about Rovers but when I finally got face to face with one it was an ugly site:

Picture this...kid takes his mom's car, decides to see how well here lovely Range Rover off-roads, tries it out on a baseball field and gets caught up on a 2ft mound of dirt. My buddy and I come across him after a run and the kid is desperate for help, we go get my buddy Mike's Suburban and push the thing off the mound as the 'Burbban continues right through the pile.

Now personally I had always given respect to Rover because of their fancy shmancy suspension, I knew overall the U.S. models had engine and reliability problems. When I found this Rover though that respect went doooowwwwnnnn hill, it was an unacceptable obstacle for a rover to get hung up on. Ofcourse this is my perspective form the states, I hear those things are different beasts in the UK with diesel engine and all.

Nonetheless let's get back to the man's caddies.

 

[akshatp]

Caddy's are nice when they are new. After a few years and some miles though, they are just another American car. History speaks for itself, although the Americans are learning from the Japs/Germans and builidng better cars.

I still would never buy an American car over a German/Japanese car. I just recently sold my 1992 Acura with 165,000 miles on it and got close to $6,000 for it. Incredible resale value. And you cannot beat German engineering.

I am looking to purchase a 3/4 year old BMW 740iL. THe thing about buying it 3 yrs old is that the initial drop in value is done, and I get to reap the benefits of buying it at less then 50% of original value, and enjoying a steady decline in resale value as opposed to losing 25% in one year.

For those of you that say a TL/CL is an Accord plus $10,000. Get your head out of your a$$. Acura is a far superior vehicle to the Accord. Aside from a bigger engine, much higher quality parts thant you will find in an Accord, such as premium leather, more sound dampening, smoother shifting parts, higher grade wiring, other amenities. Same with the other names such as Lexus, Infiniti, etc. The cars may last you the same amount of miles, but the Acura's, Lexus's, Infiniti's of the world will run smoother, and less stuff on the inside will "break down."

 

[wakeboarder]

One reason people are in debt so much is because they spend to much on cars. All the extra money does is make people say man he blew a lot of cash on that car. Not much extra performance for the cash. Man, I really need my car to remember 12 seat positions, because doing it manually is to hard and of course I regularly have 12 different people driving my car. How often do you see people driving there huge SUV's in the middle of a city where they have no chance of ever putting it to use. They don't think pratically, of course not thinking pratically is fun at times.

 

[GnatGoSplat]

<< Wrong, the ES300 is a Camry Clone and not a Avalon Clone. The Avalon is infact the parent platform for the LS4XXX series, the top line LExus. The engines of the ES and Camry are very similar except for a freer exhaust and some minor tweaks. Please check your info and re-read the specs in more detail before commenting.
>>



This is not true either. The Avalon is an extended wheelbase Camry. IT IS FWD, engine mounted transversely. Check into the Lexus LS4xx series, they are RWD with a longitudinal drivetrain arrangement.

Now back to the Cadillac, it seems to be a pretty solid car. Good offset crash test rating link. Can't say the same for Ford's competition, the Lincoln Continental.

 

[gtd2000]

<< Could be mistaken but they look identical. Although the Freelander came out in 1998 that doesn't mean ford didn't colaborate on it. >>



I think what we have is a cross purpose discussion here - I would now be led to believe that the V6 Freelander is based on Ford designs. Perhaps a V6 was the minimum required engine size for the US market? Hence the introduction of a "new" Freelander in the USA?

Even although it was in production and being sold elsewhere as a 4 pot.

I never really thought "Landies" were that good in my opinion - the new in the 80's "defender" series were very capable off road though. And I'm talking from experience here after hard driving literally 100's of them.

My personal favorite was the G101 "forward controls" with the V8 engine

Hell I'm even typing American now - sorry - favourite

 

[Mysterie]

<< << [Some range rovers are fords just $10,000 more>>
more like 30,000 more >>


Nope they have the freelander a Escape/Tribute (RAV4, CRV, etc) equivelant that's about $10,000 more than a equivelant Escape.

My family is primarily a Ford family (Ford, Mercury, Volvo, Mazda) with an occasional Toyota/Lexus. Here's my take you take care of the car and the car will take car of you. Have driven an Escort and now a Mustang and they are excellent cars, no major problems. Our Olds (88 Calais) was a piece of junk (replaced the engine twice, among the most expensive repairs), but it had a great outside (metal and paint) it also turned us off GM (my family had five olds, three 88s and one 89 all except for my Grandpa's 'tank' 86 olds died and cost us major repairs). Among the most expensive cars, there was one toyota and the lexus (not the volvo), they cost the most overall don't know why but they always had problems quality wise so I guess we wern't so lucky with them. They never leave the shop with cheap repairs (Once $300+ to replace a door handle!), none of the Ford's ever had repairs over $300 except for one which had a destroyed engine when oil wan't replaced and the engine burned out (fault of the person who repaired the car)

I don't believe a name brand matters but in Southern California it means a great deal to alot of people. I wouldn't buy a ES300 if it's the same as a Camry unless I could afford it, but on one hand it does looks alot nicer than the camry (doesn't matter now the 02 look horrible).

Oh, under Ford's Preimer Group there's Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar, Austin Martin, Volvo, Land Rover (just the SUV division, apparently BMW still owns the car division), and Mazda.

GM and Toyota are somewhat buddies on some endevors. I think Opel and GM are also close (maybe GM own's majority of stock in Opel, like Ford with Mazda) or something, I can't rememebr where I saw something about it.