Hot or not? 74 GB WD Raptor HD SATA

[masterxfob]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: sirspotticus
shouldn't this be moved to some other forum? it's no longer about a hot deal, just a bunch of angry teenagers arguing over who has a better HD setup.

You're pretty close....it actually started as somebody posting a deal for a $250 74GB Raptor...then I said the deal wasn't hot cuz you could get 4 cheap HD's and RAID0 or RAID10 them for cheaper...suddenly the Raptor Owner's Club of AT started crying bloody murder, and a retarded discussion ensued.

Valsalva

it was actually a deal until the fellow with the complex had to take a crap in here. actually he's still crapping, and it doesn't look like his ass will stop running anytime soon.

 

[Yo2]

Originally posted by: masterxfob

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: sirspotticus
shouldn't this be moved to some other forum? it's no longer about a hot deal, just a bunch of angry teenagers arguing over who has a better HD setup.

You're pretty close....it actually started as somebody posting a deal for a $250 74GB Raptor...then I said the deal wasn't hot cuz you could get 4 cheap HD's and RAID0 or RAID10 them for cheaper...suddenly the Raptor Owner's Club of AT started crying bloody murder, and a retarded discussion ensued.

Valsalva

it was actually a deal until the fellow with the complex had to take a crap in here. actually he's still crapping, and it doesn't look like his ass will stop running anytime soon.

LOL

 

[Yo2]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Yo2

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Yo2

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Yo2Listen pal - it really looks like you still have lot to learn, not only about technology, but also in terms of forum ethics and behavior.

In order to get those drives at your quoted rate one would have to lie their a$$ off when sending in the MIRs for those $20 hdds, risking not only not getting the $60 or so back on one or two drives, but also facing fraud and mail-fraud charges (a serious crime in this country).

OMFG, I can't believe you would even SUGGEST committing mail-fraud!!! Who here said anything about doing that? I'm sincerely appalled that the thought would even cross your mind. Are you some kind of closet-criminal or something? If you actually bothered to give 2 seconds of consideration to this deal, you would have actually SEARCHED AT for deals on WD and Maxtor 80GB-120 drives. You would have EASILY FOUND:

80GB Maxtor $40 AR at OD
80GB WD $50 AR at CC
80GB WD $40 AR at OM
80GB WD $20 AR at OM
80GB WD $50 AR at BB
80GB Maxtor $50 AR at Staples
80G WD $30 AR at CompUSSR

...

Valsalva

How does this average out to $20 per drive?

And - even if you buy the drives at different locations some of the many rabtes are limited to one per user/household/offer and go back to the manufacturer - therefore "mail fraud "

You just don't get it do you. It doesn't matter if it's $20 or $30 or $40/drive...it's STILL cheaper REGARDLESS....just like if your Raptor is $250 or $235. It doesn't fricking matter. It doesn't change the fact that 4 80GB drives in RAID0 or RAID10 (aka RAID1+0) is CHEAPER, FASTER (in STR), has MORE SPACE, and is fault-tolerant in RAID10 compared to a single Raptor which costs a lot more.

You're obviously out of good arguments. First you suggest committing mail fraud, now you're telling me that you can't get 4 different drives even when I post SEVEN distinct deals from various places (and without even looking that hard).

For other people who haven't invested so much money and emotional attachment to a Raptor, I think 4 drives in RAID0 or RAID10 is a far-better bargain than a single Raptor...(unless you're one of the "my case is too small" or "i only have one fan in my case"...or "I can't choose which deal to get even though someone posted 7 DIFFERENT deals without even looking too hard" people)

Valsalva

Hey Mr Saliva,

I just ordered 4 Raptors to be run in raid 10 - will need that to send you e-mail while you are in Jail for "mail-fraud" - or are you in fact in the "Pen" already - you seem to have an aweful lot of time...

Now eat your heart out

BWHAHAHAHAHAH. LOL. You spent ~$1000 on your hard drives??? BWAHAHAHAHAH You're honestly the biggest fool I've met in a while. OH boy. Two more things:
1) you might have thought "mr. saliva" was clever and witty, but in reality, it wasn't. Seriously.
2) YOU were the one who suggested committing mail fraud, if you recall. Furthermore, I already posted 7 different places to get HD's for a bargain, so clearly I'm not the one with criminal intents on my mind.

Enjoy your wasted money.

Valsalva

Actually I spent $1200+tax on them since I bought them at a local store and they had to order them for me

On 1) we all know that Mr. Saliva is not clever nor witty - seriously

On 2) you must be in jail - people can either be stupid or have a big mouth - the combination of both must have landed you there - and I bet you no more teeth left either because you obviously still don't know when to shut up. Let me just remind you that it was YOU who suggested that $20 drives can readily be found but when confronted with the legality had to bail and pull up some lame-ass deals that a) are nowhere near $20/drive and b) will entail use of the same MIR simply through different vendors, which still constitutes mail-fraud

 

[forcemac101]

Heres my take on rebates...they suck.

I avoid any purchases that require rebates to the best of my ability. I absolutely will not jump on a "hot deal" if I have to send in multiple rebates (ones like the dell one that happened WAY back for the 200gb for 20 bucks...the mere presence that I still see the thread up and people compliaining not getting their rebates is enough to make me wary of most ANYrebate deals...legit or not). I will do rebates when I need too...I just don't like too....

This isn't to discourage hot deals and all, but when you have to have threads that evaulate the freakin rebate centers, or such and such rebate center is iffy.....its just not worth the hassel to the "average" consumer. Maybe for AT'ers, sure, but what about IT guys looking to implement this solution on dozens of computers...rebates aren't a justifiable option.

To me rebates have come down to this, you gotta make copies of everything for backup, hound the rebate centers becuase if you don't they conviently "lose" or "misfile" your submission hoping you forget about it so they keep your money. The whole deal is shady, and we all know it, otherwise there wouldn't be threads about your freakin rebate. Some people can afford the time to hassel the centers, others have to GO OUT OF THEIR way just get there freaking money. I mean they don't advertise these "hot deals" AR if they didn't know: a) They can figure not having to pay such and such % of rebates due to non- or incorrect submission. b) the traffic that they generate into the stores hoping you buy other crap. And now that more and more advertisements for products are AR, they find more and more shady deals NOT to accept your rebate, or even deal with you if you claim its lost. I just sent in a Turbo tax one for my rebate, and I read the fine print....now to even contest to them that your rebate wasn't recieved you have "to Substantiate claim on non-payment, you have to photocopy all submissions"...this is a DUH for seasoned folks. I don't send very many rebates in, but I take this as "in order to even TALK to us about your rebate, please prove you were never payed" WTF does that mean? How the hell do you prove non-payment?

Here is how I use"hot deals"...I use it as an Impluse Buy section (stuff I dont really NEED right away or at all), like a trying to take advantage of a price mistake or legit super-low price. If its a mistake, I don't whine when it doesnt go through, but if it does, my gain their mistake. If I see "Smoking....AR" i usually don't read it, even more so if it says YMMV or PM...(but thats to lack of PM in my area)...

I am sure there are many people on AT that share my sentiments, and many that share yours "that you go through whatever it takes to get the deal". So don't just blanket AT by saying everyone will do anything for deal... there are people here from all walks of techno geek... from newbie to super hacker.

Note to self: I don't cuss in posts usually, but just found out you can't say "sH*t"

 

[Bish]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: sirspotticus
shouldn't this be moved to some other forum? it's no longer about a hot deal, just a bunch of angry teenagers arguing over who has a better HD setup.

Agreed. but which one?

Which one ....forum or teenager

 

[Dug]

I still want to see benchmarks.
Especially the raid 10 on the HPT374. Oh wait, can it even do it?

STR is nice if you are doing video in very specific circumstances, but everything else I would like to see how it does, especially with these hot deal drives you keep mentioning. Better hope ALL of your files are is consecutive or your screwed because of higher access times. BTW most multimedia editing requires ripping portions of video out instead of working on the entire project. So again very, very specific circumstances allow for STR to reign above access times.
You are also not taking into account the head switch time or the cylinder switch time. I also don't see any specifications for writes. Just reading a sequential file, which again is very rare.

So in your everyday use of your 4 hd raid 0, or is it raid 10 system, you are not faster, until you get to that one specific application that can benefit from it. Do you know what that application is?
And have fun waiting months for all of your rebates.

I would say that 99% of people here would benefit from faster spindle speed and access times over STR. Especially Windows users.

So your hot deal of 4 hd's in raid 0 being faster will apply to how many people? 1%? Cheaper will apply to those that can muster up 4 rebates and hope that Maxtor, WD, or whoever is issuing the rebates will let all of them all fly. Not to mention all the time you spend driving around to all of these places because they won't take your hot deal online or require a coupon you can only use instore. Otherwise you are waiting months at a time to buy drives at different times so you don't get caught. Sounds like a nice waste of time.

BWHAHAHAHAHAH. LOL. You spent ~$1000 on your hard drives??? BWAHAHAHAHAH You're honestly the biggest fool I've met in a while

Laughing at someone that can afford it? That's like laughing at someone that buys a Porche when he could of have purchased a Yugo with better gas milage.
Just think of how many drives you will have to purchase over the years before you will be able to beat the performance he will get NOW.

 

[Yo2]

Originally posted by: Dug


....

BWHAHAHAHAHAH. LOL. You spent ~$1000 on your hard drives??? BWAHAHAHAHAH You're honestly the biggest fool I've met in a while

Laughing at someone that can afford it? That's like laughing at someone that buys a Porche when he could of have purchased a Yugo with better gas milage.
Just think of how many drives you will have to purchase over the years before you will be able to beat the performance he will get NOW.

You got it and almost everybody else here got it - lets just move on - "nothing to see here anymore..."

Yo

BTW: since they are so fast I ordered another 2 raptors for back-ups

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: masterxfob

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: sirspotticus
shouldn't this be moved to some other forum? it's no longer about a hot deal, just a bunch of angry teenagers arguing over who has a better HD setup.

You're pretty close....it actually started as somebody posting a deal for a $250 74GB Raptor...then I said the deal wasn't hot cuz you could get 4 cheap HD's and RAID0 or RAID10 them for cheaper...suddenly the Raptor Owner's Club of AT started crying bloody murder, and a retarded discussion ensued.

Valsalva

it was actually a deal until the fellow with the complex had to take a crap in here. actually he's still crapping, and it doesn't look like his ass will stop running anytime soon.

You're actually the one crapping here. I have provided numerous reasons why this deal is NOT HOT, and have provided substantial evidence and alternate hot deals to support my claims. YOU, on the other hand, are have contributed absolutely nothing, and your juvenile remarks about me only make you sound more retarded than you probably are (i.e. you sound like an IQ of 30, when you're probably around 65).

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: Dug
I still want to see benchmarks.
Especially the raid 10 on the HPT374. Oh wait, can it even do it?

OH WAIT...why, yes it can!!!

[garbage about STR and how it's rarely that important]

I've already addressed this AD NAUSEUM. You have already demonstrated a complete and utter lack of knowledge about HD's and I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain things to someone who doesn't have the capacity to understand anyway. If you're genuinely serious about learning about the benefits of STR-performance, read up on it and then address the points I've made previously specifically and without generalizing - then we can talk. Furthermore, you seem to be one of only two people here who don't seem to understand the importance of STR...everyone else gets it and are more concerned about getting rebates back and heat and other irrelevant things.

BWHAHAHAHAHAH. LOL. You spent ~$1000 on your hard drives??? BWAHAHAHAHAH You're honestly the biggest fool I've met in a while

Laughing at someone that can afford it? That's like laughing at someone that buys a Porche when he could of have purchased a Yugo with better gas milage.

This is a NON-parallel example. A BETTER analogy would be an XYZ car that has been supercharged and has a) better mileage, b) faster acceleration, and c) better handling than a Porsche, yet costs substantially less...and then having the Porsche owner INSIST that his car is still better because it has larger rims....that's the analogy here.

Just think of how many drives you will have to purchase over the years before you will be able to beat the performance he will get NOW.

When you buy the top-of-the-line model, it's common knowledge that the price will plummet in just a metter of months, and I'll laugh when his $1000+ array can be acquired for $600 by April.

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: forcemac101
Heres my take on rebates...they suck.

I avoid any purchases that require rebates to the best of my ability. I absolutely will not jump on a "hot deal" if I have to send in multiple rebates (ones like the dell one that happened WAY back for the 200gb for 20 bucks...the mere presence that I still see the thread up and people compliaining not getting their rebates is enough to make me wary of most ANYrebate deals...legit or not). I will do rebates when I need too...I just don't like too....

I'm sorry, but do you want a biscuit? At what point did I even HINT that I was even remotely interested in what you liked to do with your rebates???

This isn't to discourage hot deals and all, but when you have to have threads that evaulate the freakin rebate centers, or such and such rebate center is iffy.....its just not worth the hassel to the "average" consumer. Maybe for AT'ers, sure, but what about IT guys looking to implement this solution on dozens of computers...rebates aren't a justifiable option.

Hey, it's not my problem if you're not savvy enough to get your rebates. If you are so anti-rebate, then according to your reasoning, just about every other deal on ATHD is NOT HOT because it involves a rebate. Gimme a fricking break, man.

To me rebates have come down to this, you gotta make copies of everything for backup, hound the rebate centers becuase if you don't they conviently "lose" or "misfile" your submission hoping you forget about it so they keep your money. The whole deal is shady, and we all know it, otherwise there wouldn't be threads about your freakin rebate. Some people can afford the time to hassel the centers, others have to GO OUT OF THEIR way just get there freaking money. I mean they don't advertise these "hot deals" AR if they didn't know: a) They can figure not having to pay such and such % of rebates due to non- or incorrect submission. b) the traffic that they generate into the stores hoping you buy other crap. And now that more and more advertisements for products are AR, they find more and more shady deals NOT to accept your rebate, or even deal with you if you claim its lost. I just sent in a Turbo tax one for my rebate, and I read the fine print....now to even contest to them that your rebate wasn't recieved you have "to Substantiate claim on non-payment, you have to photocopy all submissions"...this is a DUH for seasoned folks. I don't send very many rebates in, but I take this as "in order to even TALK to us about your rebate, please prove you were never payed" WTF does that mean? How the hell do you prove non-payment?

So according to you, we shouldn't even bother with deals that involve rebates because YOU just don't have the capability of getting them filled. Listen, I'm not posting CYBERREBATE deals here..these are rebates from reputable places or large mfr's like OD, OM, BB, CC, Staples, WD, Maxtor, etc.... I've gotten EVERY rebate back from all of these places, and I've only had to call once or twice. Obviously, YOU have a problem.

Here is how I use"hot deals"...I use it as an Impluse Buy section (stuff I dont really NEED right away or at all), like a trying to take advantage of a price mistake or legit super-low price. If its a mistake, I don't whine when it doesnt go through, but if it does, my gain their mistake. If I see "Smoking....AR" i usually don't read it, even more so if it says YMMV or PM...(but thats to lack of PM in my area)...

Why this fricking monologue about what your habits are?? Do I care? (ans: NO). Does anyone else care? (ans: most likely, NO). It sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself that it's okay that you didn't get in on this cheap HD x 4 deal because it involves multiple rebates...that way, it's okay that you forked over XYZ dollars on an overpriced Raptor. That's okay. Cognitive dissonance.

I am sure there are many people on AT that share my sentiments, and many that share yours "that you go through whatever it takes to get the deal". So don't just blanket AT by saying everyone will do anything for deal... there are people here from all walks of techno geek... from newbie to super hacker.

Again. The overwhelming majority of deals here involve rebates...sorry to break it to you. It's the same way over there on chubbywallet. ...you can hope/wish/pray that this isn't true, but it won't change reality. sorry. The status quo on ATHD is that hot deals can and frequently do involve rebates...not the opposite. Sorry.

Valsalva

 

[Dug]

OH WAIT...why, yes it can!!!

[garbage about STR and how it's rarely that important]

I've already addressed this AD NAUSEUM. You have already demonstrated a complete and utter lack of knowledge about HD's and I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain things to someone who doesn't have the capacity to understand anyway

Not going to waste your time tyring to explain. Becuase you can't. You haven't addressed it becuase you have nothing to back it up.
Where's the benchmarks? Your best arguement is basically "because it is and I don't have to prove it because that is the way it is"
No it isn't that way. Back it up buddy.

Your deal is not a better way to go for 99% of the people here. Admit it. You read up on it and address my points specifically without insults and general rambling. I'll bet you can't.
Since you've seemed to skip over them.


Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think of how many drives you will have to purchase over the years before you will be able to beat the performance he will get NOW.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



When you buy the top-of-the-line model, it's common knowledge that the price will plummet in just a metter of months, and I'll laugh when his $1000+ array can be acquired for $600 by April.


Really? Why? Becuase you still won't be able to afford it in April and he will have been using it for that entire time.

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laughing at someone that can afford it? That's like laughing at someone that buys a Porche when he could of have purchased a Yugo with better gas milage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a NON-parallel example. A BETTER analogy would be an XYZ car that has been supercharged and has a) better mileage, b) faster acceleration, and c) better handling than a Porsche, yet costs substantially less...and then having the Porsche owner INSIST that his car is still better because it has larger rims....that's the analogy here.


Umm no. This shows you utter lack of knowledge. If you think your RAID array is better at acceleration and handling than a Raptor, then you really are in the clouds.

 

[thundershaft]

Come on guys... lets move on... =)
I am a Dual Raptor myself... =) (36GB x 2)
When I brought the drives, it was the 5 year warrenty and the data security that I was buyin it for..
I was sick and tired of all the problems of other drives...
Although many would think it is a marketing grimmik..
But I really don't care... =)

4 x maxtor/WD will never beat raptors in seek time..
This is a deal for people to dump money on.. and so be it..
this is a luxary item that people can afford.. and if u can't .. don't trash the thread =)

the raptors are 180 now at buy......com

 

[jodhas]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Yo2
For whatever it is worth - newegg now has a sale on the raptor for $235 - and for those brave enough to order two - you may get $30 back - I might just jump on that - raid 0 SATA raptors - yummy

BTW wouldn't that resolve the lengthy discussion we had here for a while?

What, the fact that the Raptor is $15 cheaper??? YEAH, that makes an astronimical difference. Bottom line:
You can get easily acquire 4 80GB drives for $80 and stick them in RAID10 with a $80 card, and BAM:
you have 160 (instead of 74GB), you have FASTER STR-performance, and you have way-better fault-tolerance. And it's cheaper.

Of course, if you're gonna whine that your case doesn't have 4 drive bays, or your case gets too hot, then go ahead - spend more money, get slower performance, have less storage space, and have NO fault tolerance.

Valsalva

Val, you make it sound as if buying 2 Raptors is a sin. You need 4 (or 3) Maxtor 80 Gig Drives in Raid 0 to make it perform like 1 Raptor. If you want reliability you need 8 (or 6) Maxtor 80 Gig drives. 8 to 6 Hard drive in one case is ridiculous for many of us. That's one too many rounded (or PATA) cables inside anybody's case. One of the reason why I love SATA is because of it's cable.

You made your point that buying 4 80 Gig Hard Drive and setting them up in RAID 0 performs as well as 1 Raptor. Now give it a rest and let others make their points.

You've been way too annoying. You gotta go...

 

[jodhas]

oh and about the "feel"

well... read this article. Search for the world feel

 

[Lurker501]

ValsalvaYourHeartOut, Please for the love of GOD let it go!!!! You have over 45 posts on this subject. This is gonna go on forever. Look, why don't you all agree to disagree and stop these posts that are going nowhere!!!!

Please, for the sake of everyone's health (and eyes) all of you, let it go.

 

[KoolAidKid]

The fact is that ATHD is a forum that is mainly populated by hardware/upgrade enthusiasts. Whether or not buying a raptor is a good idea cost/performance ratio-wise is almost beside the point: the people here want to upgrade, and posting a deal that lets them do it for as little money as possible is a good thing.

 

[FuzzyPalms]

Originally posted by: KoolAidKid
The fact is that ATHD is a forum that is mainly populated with hardware/upgrade enthusiasts. Posting an anti-upgrade message goes against the general feel of the forum. Whether or not buying a raptor is a good idea cost/performance ratio-wise is almost beside the point: the people here want to upgrade, and posting a deal that lets them do it for as little money as possible is a good thing.

Exactly, the price on the item is the point. Not price vs. performance, which is a completely different topic. If I posted a hot deal on a Porsche do you think people would be thread crapping and saying that I should drive a Civic because it does the same thing at lower speeds, but for less? (Well maybe they would, nm).

 

[GetSome681]

ValsalvaYourHeartOut,

There is a BIG difference between RAID0 (RAID01) with 7200 drives and a raptor in terms of access times. Sure the raid will give you much faster transfer speeds, but some of us are more interested in access times, in which case the raptor wins hands down. Seriously, maybe instead of arguing in this thread you should go and read http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200401/20040126WD740GD_1.html

In addition to leaving all other 10k RPM SCSI drives in the dust, the WD740GD approaches the performance of the 15k RPM Fujitsu MAS3735 and Maxtor Atlas 15k in the Office and Gaming DriveMarks. Further, it handily bests the two powerhouses in the High-End and Bootup DriveMarks. Overall, for non-server use, Western Digital's Raptor WD740GD is the fastest single hard disk one can buy regardless of spindle speed, interface, or price. The fact that it is so quiet, runs much cooler, and remains significantly less expensive than its SCSI counterparts is simply icing on the cake. Make no mistake about it- the Raptor WD740GD is the drive for power users, period.

Seriously, if you can't admit this is a great drive, something is wrong with you. Not everyone has the case/psu/space to run a RAID01, not to mention some people value access times over raw transfer speed.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: FuzzyPalms

Originally posted by: KoolAidKid
The fact is that ATHD is a forum that is mainly populated with hardware/upgrade enthusiasts. Posting an anti-upgrade message goes against the general feel of the forum. Whether or not buying a raptor is a good idea cost/performance ratio-wise is almost beside the point: the people here want to upgrade, and posting a deal that lets them do it for as little money as possible is a good thing.

First of all, nobody here posted an anti-upgrade message. Learn how to read. Secondly, it is 100% relevant that there are better ways to upgrade your HD subsystem for LESS. Like you said, this is AT HOT DEALS, populated by hardware/upgrade enthusiasts...people WANT the best possible performance for the CHEAPEST PRICE...hence the "Hot Deals" in the title. If you just wanted the best performance, regardless of cost, then by all means - buy 4 Raptors, stick them in RAID0, and spend $1000+ like that moron (forget his name)...

Exactly, the price on the item is the point. Not price vs. performance, which is a completely different topic. If I posted a hot deal on a Porsche do you think people would be thread crapping and saying that I should drive a Civic because it does the same thing at lower speeds, but for less? (Well maybe they would, nm).

This is a NON-parallel example because the Civic is NOT superior to a porsche in "performance."

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: GetSome681
ValsalvaYourHeartOut,

There is a BIG difference between RAID0 (RAID01) with 7200 drives and a raptor in terms of access times. Sure the raid will give you much faster transfer speeds, but some of us are more interested in access times, in which case the raptor wins hands down. Seriously, maybe instead of arguing in this thread you should go and read http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200401/20040126WD740GD_1.html

In addition to leaving all other 10k RPM SCSI drives in the dust, the WD740GD approaches the performance of the 15k RPM Fujitsu MAS3735 and Maxtor Atlas 15k in the Office and Gaming DriveMarks. Further, it handily bests the two powerhouses in the High-End and Bootup DriveMarks. Overall, for non-server use, Western Digital's Raptor WD740GD is the fastest single hard disk one can buy regardless of spindle speed, interface, or price. The fact that it is so quiet, runs much cooler, and remains significantly less expensive than its SCSI counterparts is simply icing on the cake. Make no mistake about it- the Raptor WD740GD is the drive for power users, period.

Seriously, if you can't admit this is a great drive, something is wrong with you. Not everyone has the case/psu/space to run a RAID01, not to mention some people value access times over raw transfer speed.

HI. thank you for joining this thread late and not realizing that I've addressed your points a billion times to people who "just don't get it." First of all, NS - I've seen that article already. Secondly, please refer to my numerous previous posts when I discuss how access-time is important only for the "typical desktop environment"...in which you can only benefit MARGINALLY in overall system performance by upgrading your HD speed. On the other hand, on HD-intensive systems (like video editing, multimedia stuff) and at boot-time, the HD-system makes a HUGE different in overall system performance. However, in these situations, sustained transfer-rate (STR) is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than access time. So my argument is this:
For the typical desktop environment, you'll barely see any different in your system performance if you upgrade to a Raptor, whereas $200-$250 can usually be spent on a different upgrade that provides a bigger overall performance enhancement. On the other hand, if you're in a situation in which HD-performance makes a HUGE difference (i.e. multimedia editing, manipulating large files, etc.), then a RAID0 system with multiple cheap drives is
a) faster (in STR, which is where it counts)
b) cheaper
c) provides more storage space

Valsalva

 

[Chucko]

Valsalva, Do you value the judgement/reviews at storagereview.com?

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: Dug


Not going to waste your time tyring to explain. Becuase you can't. You haven't addressed it becuase you have nothing to back it up.

I have explained already, and again, I ask that you address the points I made previously specifically and without generalizing. Put up or shut up.

Your deal is not a better way to go for 99% of the people here. Admit it.

I think it's probably a better way to go for 90% of the people who a) don't already own Raptors and are whining cuz they could have gotten a better deals and b) don't have a POS case with 2 slots in it.

When you buy the top-of-the-line model, it's common knowledge that the price will plummet in just a metter of months, and I'll laugh when his $1000+ array can be acquired for $600 by April.


Really? Why? Becuase you still won't be able to afford it in April and he will have been using it for that entire time.

Actually, I would have no problem "affording" these Raptors now or in April. However, I don't WASTE my money on purchases that represent a POOR VALUE. In fact, somebody posted that the drives are now $180 each at buy.com...that would mean your friend just lost $280+ in about a week for buying the drives at FULL PRICE. Unless you have money to burn, there's no point in buying the top-of-the-line stuff when you know the price is going to drop substantially in a matter of weeks.

This is a NON-parallel example. A BETTER analogy would be an XYZ car that has been supercharged and has a) better mileage, b) faster acceleration, and c) better handling than a Porsche, yet costs substantially less...and then having the Porsche owner INSIST that his car is still better because it has larger rims....that's the analogy here.

Umm no. This shows you utter lack of knowledge. If you think your RAID array is better at acceleration and handling than a Raptor, then you really are in the clouds.

You need someone to help you out with "parallel examples." You see why it's so frustrating to talk to you? Because you have the reasoning capability of a 12 year old...am I roughly correct about how old you are? OBVIOUSLY, I'm not saying that RAID is "better at acceleration"...cuz that doesn't even make any sense. I'm using "better mileage, faster acceleration, and better handling" as markers for PERFORMANCE...and the analogy is that if XYZ car has better performance and is cheaper than a Porsche, then XYZ car should be strongly considered if performance is most important. Get it?? If not, ask your parents.

Valsalva

 

[masterxfob]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: masterxfob

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: sirspotticus
shouldn't this be moved to some other forum? it's no longer about a hot deal, just a bunch of angry teenagers arguing over who has a better HD setup.

You're pretty close....it actually started as somebody posting a deal for a $250 74GB Raptor...then I said the deal wasn't hot cuz you could get 4 cheap HD's and RAID0 or RAID10 them for cheaper...suddenly the Raptor Owner's Club of AT started crying bloody murder, and a retarded discussion ensued.

Valsalva

it was actually a deal until the fellow with the complex had to take a crap in here. actually he's still crapping, and it doesn't look like his ass will stop running anytime soon.

You're actually the one crapping here. I have provided numerous reasons why this deal is NOT HOT, and have provided substantial evidence and alternate hot deals to support my claims. YOU, on the other hand, are have contributed absolutely nothing, and your juvenile remarks about me only make you sound more retarded than you probably are (i.e. you sound like an IQ of 30, when you're probably around 65).

Valsalva

it's like a little kid saying "he started it!" as for juvenile remarks? you're the one that's using 'yo momma' jokes........

my bad, all hail the great valsalva! none is better than he! none knows more than he!

 

[GetSome681]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: GetSome681
ValsalvaYourHeartOut,

There is a BIG difference between RAID0 (RAID01) with 7200 drives and a raptor in terms of access times. Sure the raid will give you much faster transfer speeds, but some of us are more interested in access times, in which case the raptor wins hands down. Seriously, maybe instead of arguing in this thread you should go and read http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200401/20040126WD740GD_1.html

In addition to leaving all other 10k RPM SCSI drives in the dust, the WD740GD approaches the performance of the 15k RPM Fujitsu MAS3735 and Maxtor Atlas 15k in the Office and Gaming DriveMarks. Further, it handily bests the two powerhouses in the High-End and Bootup DriveMarks. Overall, for non-server use, Western Digital's Raptor WD740GD is the fastest single hard disk one can buy regardless of spindle speed, interface, or price. The fact that it is so quiet, runs much cooler, and remains significantly less expensive than its SCSI counterparts is simply icing on the cake. Make no mistake about it- the Raptor WD740GD is the drive for power users, period.

Seriously, if you can't admit this is a great drive, something is wrong with you. Not everyone has the case/psu/space to run a RAID01, not to mention some people value access times over raw transfer speed.

HI. thank you for joining this thread late and not realizing that I've addressed your points a billion times to people who "just don't get it." First of all, NS - I've seen that article already. Secondly, please refer to my numerous previous posts when I discuss how access-time is important only for the "typical desktop environment"...in which you can only benefit MARGINALLY in overall system performance by upgrading your HD speed. On the other hand, on HD-intensive systems (like video editing, multimedia stuff) and at boot-time, the HD-system makes a HUGE different in overall system performance. However, in these situations, sustained transfer-rate (STR) is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than access time. So my argument is this:
For the typical desktop environment, you'll barely see any different in your system performance if you upgrade to a Raptor, whereas $200-$250 can usually be spent on a different upgrade that provides a bigger overall performance enhancement. On the other hand, if you're in a situation in which HD-performance makes a HUGE difference (i.e. multimedia editing, manipulating large files, etc.), then a RAID0 system with multiple cheap drives is
a) faster (in STR, which is where it counts)
b) cheaper
c) provides more storage space

Valsalva

You are just flat out wrong. Take for example OS X. OS X has a metric ton of files associated with the OS. On booting (aside from many other operations), access times are more important that transfer speeds considering the size of these files are no where near as large are raw dv files/etc that you mention. When you raid, you do not increase access times, and if anything you raise them. http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20040123/wd740-08.html Have a look for yourself, although the increase in access times in a raid configuration could be considered negligible, it is still present. Sure, if you're transfering large files, raid systems make sense, and hence their large presence in the market, but you are just wrong if you think that a power user can't benefit from extremely low access times. You get 63.3 MB/s w/ the 74 raptor, and 84.9 MB/s with a raid0 seagate 7200 setup. Sure this is a big difference, but in comparison to most single 7200 setup (~40 MB/s), the raptor is still extremely fast, not to mention the raptor access time is 40% faster than the raid0 setup. It's very obvious to see that with the raptor you are gaining both an increase in transfer speeds AND a decrease in access times, whereas with the raid setup you only gain transfer speed.

OH WAIT...
I didn't mention that the above is solely for read speeds...let's take a look at write speeds, shall we?
http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20040123/wd740-09.html
A SINGLE 74 RAPTOR BEATS A 7200 RAID0 SETUP IN WRITE SPEED, 63 MB/s to 53 MB/s.


Bottom line is this: The raptor boasts 40% faster access times, 26% slower read rates than a 7200 raid0, 58% faster read rates than a single 7200, and 19% faster write rates than the raid0.

You saying that the 74 raptor isn't a power user's drive = you lose.

Edit: oh yeah, did i mention support for command queuing once sata controllers support it. can't get that w/ normal 7200 drive.

 

[Creig]

VYHO - Please just let it drop. Just accept the fact that some people call a $220 74GB Western Digital Raptor a Hot Deal because it's $30 cheaper than they can find elsewhere. To them this is, in fact, a Hot Deal.

To myself and others, a $20 80GB Western Digital SE is a Hot Deal because, well, it's only $20. To us, this is a Hot Deal.

It's all a matter of perspective. Let them have their opinion and you yours. You're not going to sway them, they're not going to sway you. This thread has turned into nothing but a waste of bandwidth.

Let it slide.