Hot Pursuit Into Pakistan?

[tvarad]

Lemon Law:

"When the Taliban now has the free run of the country which includes areas far far from the Afghan border with Pakistan, anyone should suspect that blaming Pakistan is more of a smoke screen excuse than a root cause."

You should stop smoking the stuff that the Taliban are sending you to defend their cause.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Lemon Law:

"When the Taliban now has the free run of the country which includes areas far far from the Afghan border with Pakistan, anyone should suspect that blaming Pakistan is more of a smoke screen excuse than a root cause."

You should stop smoking the stuff that the Taliban are sending you to defend their cause.

There are three or four individuals here that are anti-military w/ respect to any US involvment in anything or will always root for those that are able to play the sympathy card the loudest.

The isolationist stance between WWI and WWI is considered the best forigen policy success.
Non intervention and to hell with what the world is doing until it actually knocks on our door.

And when trouble knocks on our door, they wonder why them?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: tvarad
Lemon Law:

"When the Taliban now has the free run of the country which includes areas far far from the Afghan border with Pakistan, anyone should suspect that blaming Pakistan is more of a smoke screen excuse than a root cause."

You should stop smoking the stuff that the Taliban are sending you to defend their cause.

There are three or four individuals here that are anti-military w/ respect to any US involvment in anything or will always root for those that are able to play the sympathy card the loudest.

The isolationist stance between WWI and WWI is considered the best forigen policy success.
Non intervention and to hell with what the world is doing until it actually knocks on our door.

And when trouble knocks on our door, they wonder why them?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To start out, I do not root for the Taliban. I simply note that the US occupation in Afghanistan is failing because we have allocated too few resources to preform the rather ambitious bite off more than we can chew mission. While there may or may not be anything wrong with the mission goals, trying to preform too much with too little will always end up resulting in a Taliban win. Its the people who deny reality and not I that are responsible for the failures. And its simply a matter that you are trying to kill the messenger in the futile attempt to deny the box score message anyone can read.

And if someone is "rooting for Nato", denying reality is the last thing that is desirable.
We have been there, done that, in Vietnam, and rooting for a US military success in Vietnam did us zero good in the end. But at least in Vietnam, we allocated far more resources than we have so far allocated in Afghanistan. And Nixon's widening of the Vietnam war was supposed to be the magic panacea. And we thereafter found it did nothing but spread the instability.

But sometimes when we don't have enough to do what we want, its better to concentrate on what we can do well. And have a smarter strategy.

But one lesson I take away from the game of chess. I may be the only general on my side, but the other side has a general also. And each side has the goal of making the other side's wheels fall off. And a good chess player looks at the other side's position and asks, if I were them, what is the meanest nastiest thing they could do to me. And then the good chess player expects the other side to do their worst, and positions their offensive and defensive pieces to counter those threats. The loser in the chess game is usually the one that underestimates what their opponent can do while trying attacks that the opponent can easily blunt.

Because in the end, only bottom line results matter.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Lemon law

snip

but he just does not have the results to support any degree of even semi competence.

So since you have 0 results, that would make you 0% competent, Right?

Chuck

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bad reasoning chucky2.

Since I do not play the game of golf, you and I have no information to compare me with Tiger Woods.

But as soon as I start playing golf, you get the comparative information. And after nearly seven years we can give Nato a scorecard on the Afghan occupation. And the results underwhelm.

When the Taliban now has the free run of the country which includes areas far far from the Afghan border with Pakistan, anyone should suspect that blaming Pakistan is more of a smoke screen excuse than a root cause.

on this subject, you don't even own a set of clubs...

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Most Pakistanis support dialogue with militants: poll ISLAMABAD, July 17 (AFP): Seventy-one percent of Pakistanis support dialogue with pro-Taliban militants in tribal areas bordering Afghanistan over military intervention, according to a survey published Thursday. The survey was conducted in June by the International Republican Institute, a US group with links to the Republican party. When asked what was the most effective way to deal with terrorism, 61 percent cited economic development and education, nine percent said military force, and 24 percent said both. ?IRI's poll reveals that the Pakistani people are unambiguous, preferring negotiation and development to military options,? the group said. More than 70 percent of Pakistanis opposed the country's cooperation with the United States' ?war on terror,? with just 15 percent in favour, according to the poll of 3,484 people selected at random. However 81 percent people supported new government's policy on terrorism. (Posted @ 17:10 PST)

This is no surprise, it's obvious that the Taliban and the majority of the Paks are the same animal.

Not only have you revealed your low-grade thinking and bigotry in your previous post, but now you're lumping an entire nation based on a tribe of people. Save your xenophobia and racism for Stormfront.

Not racist, I just feel towards them what they feel towards me as an American and an Atheist. They could be pink as your mommia's fanny and I'd still have a problem with them, especially since they support the Taliban.

I'm sure the Nazi feelings towards jews started in the same way. You are scared of us. You think we are all a threat to you. If there was another 9/11 you would condone genocide against us.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Most Pakistanis support dialogue with militants: poll ISLAMABAD, July 17 (AFP): Seventy-one percent of Pakistanis support dialogue with pro-Taliban militants in tribal areas bordering Afghanistan over military intervention, according to a survey published Thursday. The survey was conducted in June by the International Republican Institute, a US group with links to the Republican party. When asked what was the most effective way to deal with terrorism, 61 percent cited economic development and education, nine percent said military force, and 24 percent said both. ?IRI's poll reveals that the Pakistani people are unambiguous, preferring negotiation and development to military options,? the group said. More than 70 percent of Pakistanis opposed the country's cooperation with the United States' ?war on terror,? with just 15 percent in favour, according to the poll of 3,484 people selected at random. However 81 percent people supported new government's policy on terrorism. (Posted @ 17:10 PST)

This is no surprise, it's obvious that the Taliban and the majority of the Paks are the same animal.

Not only have you revealed your low-grade thinking and bigotry in your previous post, but now you're lumping an entire nation based on a tribe of people. Save your xenophobia and racism for Stormfront.

Not racist, I just feel towards them what they feel towards me as an American and an Atheist. They could be pink as your mommia's fanny and I'd still have a problem with them, especially since they support the Taliban.

I'm sure the Nazi feelings towards jews started in the same way. You are scared of us. You think we are all a threat to you. If there was another 9/11 you would condone genocide against us.

Like Americans and people all over the world you love your children and want only what's best for them and will do what's necessary to protect them. If it weren't for religious differences you'd realize that we are all the same. If a group of extremists were to commit mass murder in your country and then fled to America you'd want us to stop them from doing it again and we'd oblige. We're just asking the same of you. If Pakistan would step up and stop the Taliban they'd have no reason to fear us as there's nothing that you have that our twisted leaders desire. I can assure you that the Average American would rather get along with you than not even if that means we have nothing to do with you which would probably be for the best seeing the vast differences in our cultures.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Most Pakistanis support dialogue with militants: poll ISLAMABAD, July 17 (AFP): Seventy-one percent of Pakistanis support dialogue with pro-Taliban militants in tribal areas bordering Afghanistan over military intervention, according to a survey published Thursday. The survey was conducted in June by the International Republican Institute, a US group with links to the Republican party. When asked what was the most effective way to deal with terrorism, 61 percent cited economic development and education, nine percent said military force, and 24 percent said both. ?IRI's poll reveals that the Pakistani people are unambiguous, preferring negotiation and development to military options,? the group said. More than 70 percent of Pakistanis opposed the country's cooperation with the United States' ?war on terror,? with just 15 percent in favour, according to the poll of 3,484 people selected at random. However 81 percent people supported new government's policy on terrorism. (Posted @ 17:10 PST)

This is no surprise, it's obvious that the Taliban and the majority of the Paks are the same animal.

Not only have you revealed your low-grade thinking and bigotry in your previous post, but now you're lumping an entire nation based on a tribe of people. Save your xenophobia and racism for Stormfront.

Not racist, I just feel towards them what they feel towards me as an American and an Atheist. They could be pink as your mommia's fanny and I'd still have a problem with them, especially since they support the Taliban.

I'm sure the Nazi feelings towards jews started in the same way. You are scared of us. You think we are all a threat to you. If there was another 9/11 you would condone genocide against us.

Like Americans and people all over the world you love your children and want only what's best for them and will do what's necessary to protect them. If it weren't for religious differences you'd realize that we are all the same. If a group of extremists were to commit mass murder in your country and then fled to America you'd want us to stop them from doing it again and we'd oblige. We're just asking the same of you. If Pakistan would step up and stop the Taliban they'd have no reason to fear us as there's nothing that you have that our twisted leaders desire. I can assure you that the Average American would rather get along with you than not even if that means we have nothing to do with you which would probably be for the best seeing the vast differences in our cultures.

So American children are somehow more important than Pakistani ones? What about the innocent children that your bombs and guns have killed? Intentional or not; a dead child is a dead child.

And answer my question: If there was a another 9/11; and you thought the only way to protect yourselves from another event like that that killed ~10,000 Americans was to nuke one of our cities and kill millions would you condone that?

P.S - Show me proof the taliban were involved in 9/11. Killing them is just your sick idea of revenge. You have disabled so many innocent Afghans; made so many of them orphans; You really have no idea what if feels like to be one of them. I'd rather die than see my family and friends be turned into what you've turned Afghanistan into. And you may say the taliban were doing the same to them. So since when are you the world police? You have no moral high ground after lying and starting illegal wars. You were the root of Afghanistan's problems. You were the one who paved the way for the taliban to take over. Blame yourselves not Pakistan!

P.S.S - How about you hand over some of the people who we think are criminals? Like Salman Rushdie? Or is it only YOU that gets to make laws about who deserves to be punished and who doesn't. Clearly Afghanistan though OBL should not be handed over; just like you think Salman should be not. Maybe you think Religion is not important - We do not.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Like Americans and people all over the world you love your children and want only what's best for them and will do what's necessary to protect them. If it weren't for religious differences you'd realize that we are all the same. If a group of extremists were to commit mass murder in your country and then fled to America you'd want us to stop them from doing it again and we'd oblige. We're just asking the same of you. If Pakistan would step up and stop the Taliban they'd have no reason to fear us as there's nothing that you have that our twisted leaders desire. I can assure you that the Average American would rather get along with you than not even if that means we have nothing to do with you which would probably be for the best seeing the vast differences in our cultures.

So American children are somehow more important than Pakistani ones?

I don't know where you got that from my post

And answer my question: If there was a another 9/11; and you thought the only way to protect yourselves from another event like that that killed ~10,000 Americans was to nuke one of our cities and kill millions would you condone that?

Yeah if I thought that but I don't. I'm not interested in wiping out millions of innocent people for the actions of a few. Even if your government was behind the attack I still don't believe that nuclear retaliation would be right unless it was in response to a nuclear strike perpetrated by your government and even then I would only support a strike to wipe out your capabilities to do it again. Launching a strike on a population center just for revenge would be as bad as the original act and just as heinous.

P.S - Show me proof the taliban were involved in 9/11. Killing them is just your sick idea of revenge. You have disabled so many innocent Afghans; made so many of them orphans; You really have no idea what if feels like to be one of them. I'd rather die than see my family and friends be turned into what you've turned Afghanistan into. And you may say the taliban were doing the same to them. So since when are you the world police? You have no moral high ground after lying and starting illegal wars. You were the root of Afghanistan's problems. You were the one who paved the way for the taliban to take over. Blame yourselves not Pakistan!

The Taliban protected and gave shelter to those who committed the heinous act, denying them the opportunity to be able to do that again is self preservation IMO.

P.S.S - How about you hand over some of the people who we think are criminals? Like Salman Rushdie? Or is it only YOU that gets to make laws about who deserves to be punished and who doesn't. Clearly Afghanistan though OBL should not be handed over; just like you think Salman should be not. Maybe you think Religion is not important - We do not.

If Rushdie was responsible for the murder of hundreds or thousands of innocent people you bet I would support turning him over to you. I don't support turning him over to you because he has an opinion about your religion that you don't agree with. Hey I feel the same way he does, not only about your religion but about all religions. Do you think I should be punished for my opinion?

 

[Lemon law]

The some what myth here is that present Nato forces could even dent the Taliban if they had the Green light from Pakistan to operate. Thus far Pakistan has lost nearly 1100 of their troops trying to contain Taliban in the tribal regions. Which exceeds Nato losses by a good bit. And if Pakistani troops find no welcome in the tribal regions, its certain that Nato will find even less welcome. The last fairly big US raid brought all kind of non Taliban tribal leaders together with all vowing to defend their side of the border. So basically any Nato troops operating inside of Pakistan would have the entire population against them. Maybe all well and fine for Nato if they face a massed army type engagement where their superior firepower can wipe them out, but bad for Nato if they get sniped at by very small groups every step of the way. Nato air power may be the great equalizer, but then collateral damage will ramp up hatreds, not just in Pakistan, but all over the world. As for the Taliban , they can get their R&R in the many Northern Stans or simply filter back into Afghanistan while Nato is otherwise engaged playing wacko mole.

We have to remember that the Taliban and Al-Quida are beneficiaries of the best CIA insurgent group training Ronald Reagan could offer at the time. And if they were able to chase away a much larger Russian army, the present Nato forces would not even make a pre breakfast snack. Of course the US stinger missiles made up a good part of the Afghan insurgents effectiveness against the Russians, but if Nato uses a lot of air strikes, its likely that funding will become available and the insurgents will start purchasing
surface to air missiles on the arms black markets.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

If Rushdie was responsible for the murder of hundreds or thousands of innocent people you bet I would support turning him over to you. I don't support turning him over to you because he has an opinion about your religion that you don't agree with. Hey I feel the same way he does, not only about your religion but about all religions. Do you think I should be punished for my opinion?

It's not just an opinion. And even if it was the law is the law. The law is above individual rights.

The rest of your post - fair enough. Too bad there is no second superpower to check the US's illegal actions.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

If Rushdie was responsible for the murder of hundreds or thousands of innocent people you bet I would support turning him over to you. I don't support turning him over to you because he has an opinion about your religion that you don't agree with. Hey I feel the same way he does, not only about your religion but about all religions. Do you think I should be punished for my opinion?

It's not just an opinion. And even if it was the law is the law. The law is above individual rights.

The rest of your post - fair enough.

So I should be punished for my opinion regarding your religion (not just yours but all religions)?

 

[tvarad]

Lemon Law,
In Pakistani folklore, one of their soldiers is a match for 5 Indian soldiers. They ate grass to develop nukes to match India. They have tried every trick in the book to pry Kashmir from Indian hands, including foisting 2 official wars and numerous unofficial on the region. They slaughtered millions of their East Pakistani compatriots in 1971 in the space of a few months. And I'm not even going to mention their adventures in Afghanistan.

And you're telling me that they don't have control over a ragtag bunch of misfits and malcontents that they helped nurture? As I said, set aside the stuff that you're smoking that's been sent over from Taliban controlled poppy plantations. It's not good for you.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

If Rushdie was responsible for the murder of hundreds or thousands of innocent people you bet I would support turning him over to you. I don't support turning him over to you because he has an opinion about your religion that you don't agree with. Hey I feel the same way he does, not only about your religion but about all religions. Do you think I should be punished for my opinion?

It's not just an opinion. And even if it was the law is the law. The law is above individual rights.

The rest of your post - fair enough.

So I should be punished for my opinion regarding your religion (not just yours but all religions)?

No; but if you write articles undermining the state religion then yes. You could do whatever the hell you want in your house anywhere in the world and I could care less. But in my country in a public place if you start undermining the state religion then the state has a right to punish you according to the law.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Lemon Law,
In Pakistani folklore, one of their soldiers is a match for 5 Indian soldiers. They ate grass to develop nukes to match India. They have tried every trick in the book to pry Kashmir from Indian hands, including foisting 2 official wars and numerous unofficial on the region. They slaughtered millions of their East Pakistani compatriots in 1971 in the space of a few months. And I'm not even going to mention their adventures in Afghanistan.

And you're telling me that they don't have control over a ragtag bunch of misfits and malcontents that they helped nurture? As I said, set aside the stuff that you're smoking that's been sent over from Taliban controlled poppy plantations. It's not good for you.

Suppose this; if our government supports the taliban then what? What will you do about it? Too bad there's nothing you can do about it the same way you can do nothing about Iran.

 

[Lemon law]

Well Tvarad, at least you put your finger on the real Pakistani driving force, their fear of an India that absolutely makes Pakistan puny by comparison. India has a population of over a billion and Pakistan, while having the sixth largest population in the world, has only has 165 million or so. So its outnumbered by over six to one by a hostile India.

But it sure sound like you are on some sort of drugs that give you an irrational over exuberance, must be some of the left over Vietnamese pot you stockpiled.

I am just telling you what is likely to happen if Nato tries to go into the tribal areas of Pakistan, deny reality at your own peril.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The some what myth here is that present Nato forces could even dent the Taliban if they had the Green light from Pakistan to operate. Thus far Pakistan has lost nearly 1100 of their troops trying to contain Taliban in the tribal regions. Which exceeds Nato losses by a good bit. And if Pakistani troops find no welcome in the tribal regions, its certain that Nato will find even less welcome. The last fairly big US raid brought all kind of non Taliban tribal leaders together with all vowing to defend their side of the border. So basically any Nato troops operating inside of Pakistan would have the entire population against them. Maybe all well and fine for Nato if they face a massed army type engagement where their superior firepower can wipe them out, but bad for Nato if they get sniped at by very small groups every step of the way. Nato air power may be the great equalizer, but then collateral damage will ramp up hatreds, not just in Pakistan, but all over the world. As for the Taliban , they can get their R&R in the many Northern Stans or simply filter back into Afghanistan while Nato is otherwise engaged playing wacko mole.

We have to remember that the Taliban and Al-Quida are beneficiaries of the best CIA insurgent group training Ronald Reagan could offer at the time. And if they were able to chase away a much larger Russian army, the present Nato forces would not even make a pre breakfast snack. Of course the US stinger missiles made up a good part of the Afghan insurgents effectiveness against the Russians, but if Nato uses a lot of air strikes, its likely that funding will become available and the insurgents will start purchasing
surface to air missiles on the arms black markets.

jesus fucking christ... now you have the audacity to discuss tactics and U.S. military capabilities?!?

just as you have no clue about the people, the culture, the geography, or military strategy, your grasp of military tactics and current U.S. capabilities is nil.

what a fucking hoser... seriously.

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
No; but if you write articles undermining the state religion then yes. You could do whatever the hell you want in your house anywhere in the world and I could care less. But in my country in a public place if you start undermining the state religion then the state has a right to punish you according to the law.

If you are attempting to equate Rushdie's words on paper to the deaths of millions of innocent people at the hands of barbaric Islam extremists, then you're as backwards as the fucking Talibans.

By the way, which is it this week? Every week you seem to flipflop on your support for the Taliban. I'm beginning to wonder just how extreme you are... have you ever considered blowing up a schoolbus full of evil white kids?

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I am just telling you what is likely to happen if Nato tries to go into the tribal areas of Pakistan, deny reality at your own peril.

Is that "likelihood" based upon your many years as a soldier or diplomat?

Holiday Inn Express?

Forum Warrior?

Or perhaps you're just that guy at the party who has an obnoxiously loud way of letting everyone know that he knows everything, regardless of any actual exposure to the material being discussed, or "reality"?

yeah, I think you're that guy...

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me palehorse, yes I have the audacity to discuss military tactics with anyone, I am sick and tired of being lied to by military types who have an over inflated idea of their abilities. As an American citizen, its my country too, and the US military has flopped big time in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan while sowing the seeds of future problems all over the world. I simply refuse to let you waste my tax payer dollars and the lives of my fellow citizens on your greatly inflated ideas that are almost sure to backfire big time.

Now if you want to get real with me and discuss tactics and capabilities, please point by point rebut me where I am wrong on what is likely to happen if you do get the required permission to try to occupy the tribal regions of Pakistan. Please let us know where you are going to get the required troop numbers and how you will win the hearts and minds of those you occupy. And while you are at it, explain how the US military really won the Vietnam war.

As for your little side argument with TGB about Rushie, consider how un popular you would make yourself by burning an American flag in a red neck bar. Then realize you are doing the same damn thing on their home turf. And if you try to impose your beliefs on them, you start out way behind the eight ball for no damn good reason. Some local taboos are best respected.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse
I'm beginning to wonder just how extreme you are... have you ever considered blowing up a schoolbus full of evil white kids?

Unlike you; I'm not sick. I don't think violence is the solution to anything. I don't condone dropping bombs on civilian areas unlike you. And I also believe you have a IQ of >70. You can not define evil; someone's race, religion or ideology doesn't make him evil. I just have a hard time deciding who actually commits more "evil" acts - You or the Taliban. Stats tell me you have killed more innocent people than the Taliban can even dream of. Both you and the taliban are on the extremes. I follow the middle route.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Now if you want to get real with me and discuss tactics and capabilities, please point by point rebut me where I am wrong on what is likely to happen if you do get the required permission to try to occupy the tribal regions of Pakistan. Please let us know where you are going to get the required troop numbers and how you will win the hearts and minds of those you occupy. And while you are at it, explain how the US military really won the Vietnam war.

Nobody has ever used the word "occupy" to describe what must be done in NW Pakistan... except you.

Nobody.

There are hundreds of known targets that must be taken out. After that, the Taliban wont have the support structure necessary to continue making problems in Afghanistan.

Our SOF, the SAS, and USAF could handle it in a month, or less... if they arent held back by any bullshit restrictions or politics.

As for your little side argument with TGB about Rushie, consider how un popular you would make yourself by burning an American flag in a red neck bar. Then realize you are doing the same damn thing on their home turf. And if you try to impose your beliefs on them, you start out way behind the eight ball for no damn good reason. Some local taboos are best respected.

huh? wtf does that have to do with TGB's equating of Rushdie's words to the murder and death of 3000+ Americans on 9/11?

I'll respect his tabboos and culture the moment he prioritizes them correctly. And by "correctly," I mean humanely.

I really wish you''d stop blowing the extremists Lemon...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse
I'm beginning to wonder just how extreme you are... have you ever considered blowing up a schoolbus full of evil white kids?

Unlike you; I'm not sick. I don't think violence is the solution to anything. I don't condone dropping bombs on civilian areas unlike you. And I also believe you have a IQ of >70. You can not define evil; someone's race, religion or ideology doesn't make him evil. I just have a hard time deciding who actually commits more "evil" acts - You or the Taliban. Stats tell me you have killed more innocent people than the Taliban can even dream of. Both you and the taliban are on the extremes. I follow the middle route.

I can define "evil" any damn way I wish.

And, the Taliban fits that description. hey must be destroyed. Every last Taliban. No exceptions.

If I were you, I wouldt hang out with them anymore...

But you're right about my IQ... it certainly is greater than 70.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse

But you're right about my IQ... it certainly is greater than 70.

Damnit!!

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Now if you want to get real with me and discuss tactics and capabilities, please point by point rebut me where I am wrong on what is likely to happen if you do get the required permission to try to occupy the tribal regions of Pakistan. Please let us know where you are going to get the required troop numbers and how you will win the hearts and minds of those you occupy. And while you are at it, explain how the US military really won the Vietnam war.

Nobody has ever used the word "occupy" to describe what must be done in NW Pakistan... except you.

Nobody. ( But that is what it would boil down to Palehorse, no matter how deeply in denial you are about it. )

There are hundreds of known targets that must be taken out. After that, the Taliban wont have the support structure necessary to continue making problems in Afghanistan.
( Was in not Rumsfeld who said there are no good target in Afghanistan. You seem to think there are good targets in the tribal areas and they will only hurt the Taliban and not the local tribes )

Our SOF, the SAS, and USAF could handle it in a month, or less... if they arent held back by any bullshit restrictions or politics. ( The Russians used air power too for all the good it did them )

As for your little side argument with TGB about Rushie, consider how un popular you would make yourself by burning an American flag in a red neck bar. Then realize you are doing the same damn thing on their home turf. And if you try to impose your beliefs on them, you start out way behind the eight ball for no damn good reason. Some local taboos are best respected.

huh? wtf does that have to do with TGB's equating of Rushdie's words to the murder and death of 3000+ Americans on 9/11?

I'll respect his tabboos and culture the moment he prioritizes them correctly. And by "correctly," I mean humanely. ( You self proclaim you do, but ask the local people
in polls---90% or so say you are engaged in a war against Islam. An an emotion is as valid as a fact )

I really wish you''d stop blowing the extremists Lemon...

( You still forgot to explain how the US military won the Vietnam war or where you will get the troops. In short, I do not find anything you said as militarily credible. Especially the occupation part. I may believe you are the 800 LB Gorilla who can sleep anywhere you want. But you will find wise 800 LB Gorillas get little rest when they sleep on top of ant hills. And if you can't win hearts and minds, its just a matter of time before you get chased out after accomplishing nothing except getting a bunch of people killed, wasting a pile of money, and making the people you interacts with hate your guts. Get it through your head, it would be an occupation while the Taliban finds refuge where you are not. At the same time you would be fighting the historical forces of nationalism and religion, making it almost a no win situation for any military force. We do not understand the mindset of smaller countries with somewhat of a history of being occupied and reoccupied.
McCain may say he will stay in Iraq for a 100 years if need be, these countries have a long history of resisting any foreign occupation for way over 100 years if need be. And if you read your history books, you will see they almost always win in the end. )

And in all due respect to your military prowess palehorse, your type of thinking is what is needed in a war, but when it comes to an occupation and winning the "peace", you are the last thing this country needs. You may be better than Charles Grander and Lynde England,
but only marginally better in my view. Even GWB has the brains to keep you out of Pakistan.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: tvarad
Lemon Law,
In Pakistani folklore, one of their soldiers is a match for 5 Indian soldiers. They ate grass to develop nukes to match India. They have tried every trick in the book to pry Kashmir from Indian hands, including foisting 2 official wars and numerous unofficial on the region. They slaughtered millions of their East Pakistani compatriots in 1971 in the space of a few months. And I'm not even going to mention their adventures in Afghanistan.

And you're telling me that they don't have control over a ragtag bunch of misfits and malcontents that they helped nurture? As I said, set aside the stuff that you're smoking that's been sent over from Taliban controlled poppy plantations. It's not good for you.

Suppose this; if our government supports the taliban then what? What will you do about it? Too bad there's nothing you can do about it the same way you can do nothing about Iran.

Green Bean, don't compare Pakistan to Iran. The Iranians have the gonads to stand up to the U.S.. It took one phone call from Colin Powell for the Pakistanis to switch their allegiance from the Taliban to the U.S.. Talk about offering their a*se in a platter for the U.S.'s pleasure.

 

[Lemon law]

tvarad, don't try to compare Pakistan with Iran. The US has a 30 year snit with Iran and Pakistan is totally different. After 911, the US needed a land route into Afghanistan and
there were just two choices, Iran or Pakistan.

Its perfectly understandable that the US sticks up for US interests, but if we want Pakistani co operation, we should be asking what things are in Pakistani interests.

And this attitude that other countries just exist to serve US interests are what gets us into so much trouble. And make us less effective. Pakistan has done its part of the deal, past that, its not Pakistan's problem if the US and Nato does not know how to run a military occupation on the cheap in Afghanistan. And in fact its the US and Nato that are acting counter to Pakistani interests.

If we want better Pakistani co operation, we have to start asking them, what in this process also benefits them. And that little statement, contains much of the failures.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Pakistan has done its part of the deal.

So, Pakistan got rid of the Taliban and AQ members who still have hundreds of unmolested bases of operations on Pakistani soil?! From which they continuously funnel weapons and support to their brethren in Afghanistan, plan attacks, train, rape young girls, etc?

wow... I didn't get that memo... :roll: