Hot! Seagate 7200 120Gb SATA $59

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pipeliner1

Member
Oct 21, 2002
86
0
0
Originally posted by: FuzzyPalms
Originally posted by: VaG
Originally posted by: FuzzyPalms
I love you people with nothing to do except be beligerent a-holes. Get a life why don't you? SATA does NOT offer any performance increase over PATA technology currently. Again you are talking about a hard drive 10K RPM HD that happens to come in a SATA interface. We are talking interface, NOT actual HD performance. Understand little man? Go ahead and continue on with your ignorant posting and useless bashing.
Have a Merry Christmas.
Until you decide to reword or back pedal out of your initial post, you are fair game for useless bashing. I am well aware that today's SATA products are really PATA products with an extra SATA-to-PATA bridge chip but since you said "There is no performance increase for going with SATA in current hard drive technology" in comparison it to a "standard IDE ATA" I will refute it until you show me a "standard IDE ATA" in any RPM that out performs the SATA Raptor. UNTIL YOU DO THAT I CONSIDER SATA A CURRENT PERFORMANCE INCREASE. Understand big man?

And then there are idiots that spend $300 on hard drives......

I spent 300 dollars on my hard drives of course it was U320 73 giggers when they were released

 

Neyd3400

Member
Jul 28, 2003
195
0
0
So are they saying that drive make no noise. Woudn't that be nice. One of my 30gigs started to whine over the fall.
 

pennylane

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2002
6,077
1
0
So did everybody's order get cancelled? I didn't get a call and I was wondering at first, then I realized I didn't leave a phone number. I didn't get an email either. Is it canceled for sure?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,541
10,167
126
Originally posted by: Redviffer
By going from the IDE to SATA you take information off the PCI bus, which is limited to 133MB/sec, the performance increase isn't really the drive, but in how you are accessing/transferring the information.

Doesn't really make much of a differance with only 1 drive, but if you raid then you will see the benefit.

Uhm, aside from the few very recent chipsets, with integrated SATA, most instead have their PATA controllers not on the PCI bus (since PATA has been "integrated" into chipsets for a long time), but the SATA is implemented using an add-on chipset, which is bridged to the PCI bus.

So for any of those motherboards, you would see an overall performance DECREASE, if you moved your drives from PATA to SATA.

Also, VaG's argument that somehow, because the highest-performing SATA HD, outperforms the highest-performing PATA HD, that the natural conclusion must be therefore that SATA outperforms PATA, is false.

Couldn't I use the same erronous logic, to state that by moving from an ATA (parallel OR serial), to Ultra320 SCSI, that I could shave nearly 3-4 ms off of the access time? Certainly, the performance increase MUST be due to the interface chage, and not due to the mechanics of the HDs themselves, of which the 15K RPM drives are currently only available in U320 SCSI interfaces, and not IDE.

For all of the benchmarks that I've read so far, between otherwise identical models of SATA and PATA HDs, their performance is basically identical, and sometimes the SATA version is actually slightly slower, due to two factors, one being that the mobo SATA controller chip is likely to be bridged to the PCI bus, instead of on some faster proprietary inter-chipset bus, and another due to early SATA model HDs themselves, using a PATA-to-SATA converter chip on the HD, basically.

It is true, that unless PATA evolves another speed revision to the interface (UDMA mode greater than 6), then the theoretical maximum for the SATA-I interface (150MB/s), is slightly faster than the PATA interface (UDMA mode 6 == ATA133 == 133MB/s). However, "native command-queueing", is only an optional feature in SATA-I, and will be manditory in SATA-II, as I understand it. That one singular feature, is what could potentially differentiate HD performance in a multi-drive array. I've some experience with TCQ on PATA HDs, IBM GXPs since the 14GXP support it, as do most of the Promise controller cards/drivers. Let me tell you, the performance difference on a loaded desktop system was very noticable. I wish that all ATA HDs, parallel OR serial, would support this feature. It allows IDE to approach the performance efficiency of SCSI, which still IMHO can't be touched by other alternative high-bandwidth storage interfaces for local storage.

I don't plan on moving to SATA for another 2 years, at least. I DO plan on taking advantage of as many deals as I can, on cheap PATA storage, due to the erroneous perception that PATA is somehow "slow", or "obsolete".

(And for all of the performance advantages of a single WD Raptor HD, I can easily match those same performance levels, with a (cheaper) PATA RAID array, and have far MORE storage space to boot. This is in terms of a home-user scenario, not a low-cost enterprise-level storage server/subsystem, in which the hot-pluggability advantage of SATA does come into play.)

Edit: And yes, I AM a nerd.
 

BobOki

Member
Dec 11, 2001
46
0
0
Holy christ guys!
#1. Its CHRISTMAS, STFU
#2. STFU
#3. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR A TECHNICAL DEBAT IN A HOT DEALS THREAD, STFU
#4. See 1-3 Please

STFU KTHNX

p.s. My order was canceled too, I was offered a drive for $179.99..
 

GotIssues

Golden Member
Jan 31, 2003
1,631
0
76
Anyone else's credit card STILL CHARGED? I better get those damned HDs if they are holding my money this long. Thats total BS. I would have been fine if they just cancelled the order and refunded my money, except they haven't technically told me they cancelled my order and they still have my money. :|
 

Dysfnctnl85

Junior Member
Nov 27, 2003
2
0
0
My card has not been charged, but I have received a confirmation of the order. The website still says "item(s) have not yet shipped."

So I don't know WTF they are doing.
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
Deal is dead guys. Call up and get your money back if you've been charged.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,176
2,215
136
Originally posted by: Dysfnctnl85
My card has not been charged, but I have received a confirmation of the order. The website still says "item(s) have not yet shipped."

So I don't know WTF they are doing.
You may be the lucky 1 to receive the 1 returned/open box/refurb HD they had.
 

Redviffer

Senior member
Oct 30, 2002
830
0
0
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Redviffer
By going from the IDE to SATA you take information off the PCI bus, which is limited to 133MB/sec, the performance increase isn't really the drive, but in how you are accessing/transferring the information.

Doesn't really make much of a differance with only 1 drive, but if you raid then you will see the benefit.

Uhm, aside from the few very recent chipsets, with integrated SATA, most instead have their PATA controllers not on the PCI bus (since PATA has been "integrated" into chipsets for a long time), but the SATA is implemented using an add-on chipset, which is bridged to the PCI bus.

So for any of those motherboards, you would see an overall performance DECREASE, if you moved your drives from PATA to SATA.

Also, VaG's argument that somehow, because the highest-performing SATA HD, outperforms the highest-performing PATA HD, that the natural conclusion must be therefore that SATA outperforms PATA, is false.

Couldn't I use the same erronous logic, to state that by moving from an ATA (parallel OR serial), to Ultra320 SCSI, that I could shave nearly 3-4 ms off of the access time? Certainly, the performance increase MUST be due to the interface chage, and not due to the mechanics of the HDs themselves, of which the 15K RPM drives are currently only available in U320 SCSI interfaces, and not IDE.

For all of the benchmarks that I've read so far, between otherwise identical models of SATA and PATA HDs, their performance is basically identical, and sometimes the SATA version is actually slightly slower, due to two factors, one being that the mobo SATA controller chip is likely to be bridged to the PCI bus, instead of on some faster proprietary inter-chipset bus, and another due to early SATA model HDs themselves, using a PATA-to-SATA converter chip on the HD, basically.

It is true, that unless PATA evolves another speed revision to the interface (UDMA mode greater than 6), then the theoretical maximum for the SATA-I interface (150MB/s), is slightly faster than the PATA interface (UDMA mode 6 == ATA133 == 133MB/s). However, "native command-queueing", is only an optional feature in SATA-I, and will be manditory in SATA-II, as I understand it. That one singular feature, is what could potentially differentiate HD performance in a multi-drive array. I've some experience with TCQ on PATA HDs, IBM GXPs since the 14GXP support it, as do most of the Promise controller cards/drivers. Let me tell you, the performance difference on a loaded desktop system was very noticable. I wish that all ATA HDs, parallel OR serial, would support this feature. It allows IDE to approach the performance efficiency of SCSI, which still IMHO can't be touched by other alternative high-bandwidth storage interfaces for local storage.

I don't plan on moving to SATA for another 2 years, at least. I DO plan on taking advantage of as many deals as I can, on cheap PATA storage, due to the erroneous perception that PATA is somehow "slow", or "obsolete".

(And for all of the performance advantages of a single WD Raptor HD, I can easily match those same performance levels, with a (cheaper) PATA RAID array, and have far MORE storage space to boot. This is in terms of a home-user scenario, not a low-cost enterprise-level storage server/subsystem, in which the hot-pluggability advantage of SATA does come into play.)

Edit: And yes, I AM a nerd.


Yup, your right, the newer chipsets have SATA support natively, which is off the PCI bus, vice the older ones that used add-in SATA support, but was still tied into the PCI bus. Therefore, no real benefit.
 

Redviffer

Senior member
Oct 30, 2002
830
0
0
Originally posted by: BobOki
Holy christ guys!
#1. Its CHRISTMAS, STFU
#2. STFU
#3. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR A TECHNICAL DEBAT IN A HOT DEALS THREAD, STFU
#4. See 1-3 Please

STFU KTHNX

p.s. My order was canceled too, I was offered a drive for $179.99..

Shhh, we're actually learning something here.

 

teklord

Member
Nov 17, 2002
52
0
0
My card was charged and not yet credited.. this is what i got back:


I emailed my Customer service dept to release the hold on your funds.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:18 AM
To: jasmsmi@cdw.com
Subject: RE: CDW-D Order ******


I'm very disappointed that my order was cancelled.

However you did charge my card. Unless you plan on shipping me this product for the price quoted below I suggest you credit my card immediately.
 

Boardmonger

Senior member
Feb 21, 2003
262
0
0
I think legaly if they charge your card and send you a confirmation don't they have to sell you the drives at that price? I would think they would, but they could have some pricing error statement some place. Has anyone who was charged tried to call up and say that technically they sold you the drives if they charged you?
 

spliffstar69

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2000
1,825
0
76
Originally posted by: teklord
My card was charged and not yet credited.. this is what i got back:


I emailed my Customer service dept to release the hold on your funds.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:18 AM
To: jasmsmi@cdw.com
Subject: RE: CDW-D Order ******


I'm very disappointed that my order was cancelled.

However you did charge my card. Unless you plan on shipping me this product for the price quoted below I suggest you credit my card immediately.


its a mistake on there part, but being tactfull and a bit nicer will help with your request.



 

cmv

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
3,490
0
76
Originally posted by: BobOki
Holy christ guys!
#1. Its CHRISTMAS, STFU
#2. STFU
#3. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR A TECHNICAL DEBAT IN A HOT DEALS THREAD, STFU
#4. See 1-3 Please

STFU KTHNX

p.s. My order was canceled too, I was offered a drive for $179.99..
Actually, I'm sort of enjoying it. Carry on.
 

CQuinn

Golden Member
May 31, 2000
1,656
0
0
#3. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR A TECHNICAL DEBAT IN A HOT DEALS THREAD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shhh, we're actually learning something here.
---

Exactly, having a better grasp on the technical differences between PATA and SATA, and
the real world performance differences of these drives will be a great help in the future
when (not if, but when) another deal like this comes along.

Too many people jump in on HOT deals without even knowing why they are hot, or what
problems might show up when the deal turns cold.

So what have we learned today?

The SATA interface may be superior to Parallel ATA, but in the real world YMMV with
the drives you connect to it.

When CDW posts a "HOT" deal, Be sure to read the fine print! It may only be a
hot deal for a few people.

Some people like to answer a question directly, while other people like to take a broader
viewpoint in providing solutions - both methods are valid in thier own way.



 

smokedturkey

Member
Nov 19, 2002
91
0
0
Correct, and the industry will not see any real speed increases with any mechanical drive. We will however in the future enjoy the true speed benefits of a fully flash memory based drive. I want two!
 
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