House Passes Bill to Protect Gun Industry From Lawsuits

[digiram]

Good idea if and only if, other possible factors to crime related incidents are immune from lawsuits as well. Such as, Videogames and Movies.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

For those of you that have never heard of the criminal use of 50 caliber weapons . . . now ya heard!
Let me preface with the lying lobby from the NRA . . .

"The simple fact is that .50-calibers have not been used in crimes,"
NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004

where to buy your armor piercing rounds . . . cheap too

SPECIALIZING IN EXOTIC AMMUNITION, GUN PARTS,
PARAMILITARY DEVICES AND BOOKS

parts for the AK

ALL OF OUR AK PARTS ARE OF FOREIGN MANUFACTURE AND STRICTLY ADHERE TO ALL MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS. ALL PARTS LISTED HEREIN ARE INTENDED SOLELY FOR PROPERLY REGISTERED OWNERS OF FULL-AUTO WEAPONS AND NOT FRO CONVERSION PURPOSES. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO SEMI-AUTO WEAPONS PARTS.

don't forget the armor piercing rounds . . . so much for bans on importation and domestic sale

Freepers love John Kerry so they posted one of his floor speeches

However, there are no restrictions on ammunition that may be manufactured from other materials but can still penetrate body armor. Even more important, there are no restrictions on armor-piercing ammunition used in rifles and assault weapons. Armor-piercing ammunition has no purpose other than penetrating bulletproof vests. It is of no use for hunting or self-defense. Such armor-piercing ammunition has no place in our society--none.
---
My amendment amends the Federal ban on cop-killer bullets to include a performance standard and extends the ban on centerfire rifles, which include the sniper rifles and assault weapons responsible for the deaths of 17 police officers whose body armor was penetrated by this ammunition.

Despite the poor reading comp at P&N I will bother with a repeat . . . Frist and others that claim lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) were a substantial threat (in general) to US gun manufacturers are straight up lying.

 

[Vic]

Yep... it's the guns, not people, that are doing the killing. Why anyone who ever comes near gun is likely to commit murder at some point in their life. Can't you hear the gun infecting your brain? "Kill, kill, kill, kill..." Why, before guns were invented, no one ever killed anybody...

:roll:

 

[Tab]

Heh, you know whats really funny is that fact that I have to wait until I am 21 to buy a handgun but I could go to any gun store and buy any assault rifle.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
For those of you that have never heard of the criminal use of 50 caliber weapons . . . now ya heard!
Let me preface with the lying lobby from the NRA . . .

"The simple fact is that .50-calibers have not been used in crimes,"
NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004

where to buy your armor piercing rounds . . . cheap too

SPECIALIZING IN EXOTIC AMMUNITION, GUN PARTS,
PARAMILITARY DEVICES AND BOOKS

parts for the AK

ALL OF OUR AK PARTS ARE OF FOREIGN MANUFACTURE AND STRICTLY ADHERE TO ALL MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS. ALL PARTS LISTED HEREIN ARE INTENDED SOLELY FOR PROPERLY REGISTERED OWNERS OF FULL-AUTO WEAPONS AND NOT FRO CONVERSION PURPOSES. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO SEMI-AUTO WEAPONS PARTS.

don't forget the armor piercing rounds . . . so much for bans on importation and domestic sale

Freepers love John Kerry so they posted one of his floor speeches

However, there are no restrictions on ammunition that may be manufactured from other materials but can still penetrate body armor. Even more important, there are no restrictions on armor-piercing ammunition used in rifles and assault weapons. Armor-piercing ammunition has no purpose other than penetrating bulletproof vests. It is of no use for hunting or self-defense. Such armor-piercing ammunition has no place in our society--none.
---
My amendment amends the Federal ban on cop-killer bullets to include a performance standard and extends the ban on centerfire rifles, which include the sniper rifles and assault weapons responsible for the deaths of 17 police officers whose body armor was penetrated by this ammunition.

Despite the poor reading comp at P&N I will bother with a repeat . . . Frist and others that claim lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) were a substantial threat (in general) to US gun manufacturers are straight up lying.

So you've got maybe 2-3 actual firings of a weapon chambered in .50 BMG over the last 15 or so years nationwide. This from a source just as biased as the NRA. I have heard of .50 weapons being confiscated on several occasions .

The importation and domestic sale (of ammo imported after the ban) is indeed illegal. Existing stocks of preban steel core 7.62x39 are still around to a limited degree (note the price disparity on that compared with the SS-109). The SS-109 round is the NATO standard 5.56mm round and has a semi-hardened penetrator. The determination was made by the ATF that there rounds do not qualify as AP.

Also, Kevlar vests will not stop any centerfire rifle round without a ballistic plate. A single shot 30-06 hunting rifle will make swiss cheese of any Kevlar only vest.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Vic
Yep... it's the guns, not people, that are doing the killing. Why anyone who ever comes near gun is likely to commit murder at some point in their life. Can't you hear the gun infecting your brain? "Kill, kill, kill, kill..." Why, before guns were invented, no one ever killed anybody...

:roll:

I don't think I'm arguing that it's not the people. But our society generally criminalizes behavior that "facilitates" other ilicit behavior even if the "product" is inherently legal under typical circumstances:
1) distribution/sale of prescription drugs without a legitimate prescription
2) excess prescription of controlled substances (ask Rush)
3) DeCSS . . . granted that one is illegal although the use could have legitimate "fair use" application

POV matters. Obviously, I don't own a gun . . . have no need or interest. But if you feel the need or desire . . . go to it. Buy as many as you like. Unfortunately, I have the displeasure of dealing with the surplus (the fact that guns are easy to acquire and use). You are absolutely correct that law-abiding citizens (and evil corporations) shouldn't be punished solely b/c others are irresponsible . . . or downright bad. But there's nothing wrong with reasonable culpability for those that facilitate (by omission or comission) bad outcomes.

Our legal system is far from perfect but it's generally fair. Cases of merit hopefully win. Cases without merit lose.

K1052, I don't think the list was that long but let me help you. No less than 4 discharged their weapons . . . not counting the drug dealers . . . we know they NEVER shoot at people. Several of the others were unlawful merchants of 50 caliber weapons. Another was killed by the cops then again . . . his other weapon was an armored bulldozer. The North American militia was taken down by the feds before they got around to blowing up federal buildings, assassinating the governor, Democratic senator, and federal judges. The family duo from Wisconsin were apprehended AFTER killing the police captain (weapon not noted) but they were plotting to assault an armored car using their 50-caliber rifles. The TX militia group with a 50-caliber, 500 rounds, and truckload of explosives were planning to set up a training camp in friggin' Canada.

 

[skygod99]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
For those of you that have never heard of the criminal use of 50 caliber weapons . . . now ya heard!
Let me preface with the lying lobby from the NRA . . .

"The simple fact is that .50-calibers have not been used in crimes,"
NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004

where to buy your armor piercing rounds . . . cheap too

SPECIALIZING IN EXOTIC AMMUNITION, GUN PARTS,
PARAMILITARY DEVICES AND BOOKS

parts for the AK

ALL OF OUR AK PARTS ARE OF FOREIGN MANUFACTURE AND STRICTLY ADHERE TO ALL MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS. ALL PARTS LISTED HEREIN ARE INTENDED SOLELY FOR PROPERLY REGISTERED OWNERS OF FULL-AUTO WEAPONS AND NOT FRO CONVERSION PURPOSES. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO SEMI-AUTO WEAPONS PARTS.

don't forget the armor piercing rounds . . . so much for bans on importation and domestic sale

Freepers love John Kerry so they posted one of his floor speeches

However, there are no restrictions on ammunition that may be manufactured from other materials but can still penetrate body armor. Even more important, there are no restrictions on armor-piercing ammunition used in rifles and assault weapons. Armor-piercing ammunition has no purpose other than penetrating bulletproof vests. It is of no use for hunting or self-defense. Such armor-piercing ammunition has no place in our society--none.
---
My amendment amends the Federal ban on cop-killer bullets to include a performance standard and extends the ban on centerfire rifles, which include the sniper rifles and assault weapons responsible for the deaths of 17 police officers whose body armor was penetrated by this ammunition.

Despite the poor reading comp at P&N I will bother with a repeat . . . Frist and others that claim lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) were a substantial threat (in general) to US gun manufacturers are straight up lying.

So you've got maybe 2-3 actual firings of a weapon chambered in .50 BMG over the last 15 or so years nationwide. This from a source just as biased as the NRA. I have heard of .50 weapons being confiscated on several occasions .

The importation and domestic sale (of ammo imported after the ban) is indeed illegal. Existing stocks of preban steel core 7.62x39 are still around to a limited degree (note the price disparity on that compared with the SS-109). The SS-109 round is the NATO standard 5.56mm round and has a semi-hardened penetrator. The determination was made by the ATF that there rounds do not qualify as AP.

Also, Kevlar vests will not stop any centerfire rifle round without a ballistic plate. A single shot 30-06 hunting rifle will make swiss cheese of any Kevlar only vest.

Dammit! You beat me to it again!

Like I said before, whats really funny is how pathetic some guys can be on this. Some have no CLUE what they are talking about with weapons, just what they googled on net. All of a sudden they come out acting like experts.. too funny.

Not to mention some fools dont understand the FFL system and what it allows legally.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Despite the poor reading comp at P&N I will bother with a repeat . . . Frist and others that claim lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) were a substantial threat (in general) to US gun manufacturers are straight up lying.

Speaking of poor reading comprehension:

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Yep, it's nice when the government does something for the people . . . that line their pockets.

Common sense == Common sense. I don't care who gets rich, as long as we all benefit.

I've no doubt that Frist is a liar. I've no doubt the NRA *wanted* this legislation passed. That doesn't change the fact that lawsuits against gun manufacturers for wrongful death cases, not related to product defects, are unwarranted and frivolous.

 

[Helenihi]

Your "armor piercing" rounds for sale are for RIFLE AMMUNITION. ALL rifle ammunition will penetrate the vests worn by police anyway.


And armor piercing bullets have no place in self defense? Tell that to the guy who tried shooting the gunman at the courthouse last year but got killed because the gunman had a kevlar vest on.


What's the point of listing AK parts? Do you have any idea what it takes to get a functioning automatic weapon or the core parts necessary to build one? Probably not.

And you still haven't shown any evidence that these lawsuits aren't a threat.


Your list of .50 cal crimes is pretty deceitful. the implication is that these are all instances where .50 cals were used to kill people, but in fact, in not one of those situations is there any evidence that they were.

In fact, the majority of that list is simple possession offenses.

ex. "In March of 2005, Kyle Harness of Marina del Rey, California, was arrested after being pulled over on a traffic stop and found to be in possession of a stolen Armalite 50 caliber sniper rifle."

And even when there was an actual crime, or possibly deaths, the .50 cal was not what killed anyone, though they do their best to infer that it was.


In the end it doesn't really matter. The fact that a .50 cal has been used a few times does not mean that it should be banned, especially as none of these situations were changed by the existence of a .50cal instead of some other calibre.


I'm going to ignore the story from Waco, as the government has propagated way too many lies about that event to be believed.

 

[skygod99]

:thumbsup:

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

A handgun projectile wholly made of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, or

* A handgun projectile larger than .22 caliber with a jacket weighing more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile.

The statutory definition limiting armor piercing handgun rounds does not make it illegal to manufacture or sell armor piercing rounds b/c you can create a round that will penetrate body armor without meeting the above criteria.

Kerry proposed an amendment based on penetrating power. Craig proposed one last year but didn't try again this year due to the NRA.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

A handgun projectile wholly made of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, or

* A handgun projectile larger than .22 caliber with a jacket weighing more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile.

The statutory definition limiting armor piercing handgun rounds does not make it illegal to manufacture or sell armor piercing rounds b/c you can create a round that will penetrate body armor without meeting the above criteria.

Kerry proposed an amendment based on penetrating power. Craig proposed one last year but didn't try again this year due to the NRA.

Now we are really reaching quite bit.

Even though it is theoretically possible, actual crimes are almost always done with standard ball or hollowpoint ammunition fired from small caliber handguns.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I don't think I'm arguing that it's not the people. But our society generally criminalizes behavior that "facilitates" other ilicit behavior even if the "product" is inherently legal under typical circumstances:
1) distribution/sale of prescription drugs without a legitimate prescription
2) excess prescription of controlled substances (ask Rush)
3) DeCSS . . . granted that one is illegal although the use could have legitimate "fair use" application

POV matters. Obviously, I don't own a gun . . . have no need or interest. But if you feel the need or desire . . . go to it. Buy as many as you like. Unfortunately, I have the displeasure of dealing with the surplus (the fact that guns are easy to acquire and use). You are absolutely correct that law-abiding citizens (and evil corporations) shouldn't be punished solely b/c others are irresponsible . . . or downright bad. But there's nothing wrong with reasonable culpability for those that facilitate (by omission or comission) bad outcomes.

So? I'm opposed to those laws as well. Let people overdose on drugs, it would do less than harm than the harm that is done by trying to stop them. Same thing. You think we have gun violence now, wait until guns are illegal. In that day, I wouldn't dare walk outside except armed-for-combat and with similarly armed backup.

As to your attempt to go back on the true topic, I don't see the point. If someone drives drunk and kills someone, is it reasonable culpability to sue the automaker? Because cars kill some 5 times more people in America than guns do, and injure something on the order of a hundred times more than guns do.
Now, if a properly maintained and handled gun blows up in its user's hand, then I certainly see product liability. But if some psychopath happens to use a gun as the instrument of his murderous agenda, I do not, anymore so than if that same psychopath were to decide to use a car as his instrument (and not uncommon event).

 

[BoberFett]

Most of those 50 caliber crimes are possession, not actual murders. Try again.