House votes 407-0 for back pay

[TerryMathews]

Why? Because they're extortionists, of honest Repubs & the rest of the country, too.

They're currently attempting to dictate policy from a minority position, which is completely anti-democracy.

You mean like abortion, affirmative action, and ending slavery?

 

[Jhhnn]

You mean like abortion, affirmative action, and ending slavery?

Oh, please.

Abortion was settled by the SCOTUS, regardless of what representations you might make, not Congress.

Affirmative action was established through due process of Congress & the Executive at the time.

Ending slavery was accomplished by the 13th & 14th amendments through due process of Congress, the Executive, and state ratification at the time. Obviously, passage never would have occurred had southern states participated fully. They were still rightfully under martial law at the time, having initiated the Civil War for the express purpose of keeping slavery.

 

[TerryMathews]

Oh, please.

Abortion was settled by the SCOTUS, regardless of what representations you might make, not Congress.

Affirmative action was established through due process of Congress & the Executive at the time.

Ending slavery was accomplished by the 13th & 14th amendments through due process of Congress, the Executive, and state ratification at the time. Obviously, passage never would have occurred had southern states participated fully. They were still rightfully under martial law at the time, having initiated the Civil War for the express purpose of keeping slavery.

Ending slavery was the minority position, both in the House and in the general population.

Your point, and excuse me if I misinterpreted it, was that the Tea Party was advancing their agenda which the majority of the population does not support ("completely anti-democracy").

So, in turn I gave three (inflammatory) examples which were equally unpopular at the time of their passage. All three of those examples fell under the "minority rights" part of the equation.

Regardless of your opinion of them, each is an example of something that had minority support when it occurred.

 

[gevorg]

http://news.msn.com/us/congress-votes-to-give-shutdown-workers-back-pay

Supported by the President and Senate too.


Extra paid vacation for -800000 fed workers. At least someone is making out. Hey its not their fault.

(And of course 800000 votes )

corruption at its finest

 

[Jhhnn]

Ending slavery was the minority position, both in the House and in the general population.

Your point, and excuse me if I misinterpreted it, was that the Tea Party was advancing their agenda which the majority of the population does not support ("completely anti-democracy").

So, in turn I gave three (inflammatory) examples which were equally unpopular at the time of their passage. All three of those examples fell under the "minority rights" part of the equation.

Regardless of your opinion of them, each is an example of something that had minority support when it occurred.

Your representation of history is entirely dishonest, particularly wrt the 13th amendment. It passed the HOR by a vote of 119 to 56, the required 2/3 majority. A simple majority was never an issue, at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirte...nited_States_Constitution#Passage_by_Congress

 

[TerryMathews]

Your representation of history is entirely dishonest, particularly wrt the 13th amendment. It passed the HOR by a vote of 119 to 56, the required 2/3 majority. A simple majority was never an issue, at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirte...nited_States_Constitution#Passage_by_Congress

Who is being dishonest now? 2/3 majority of the remaining states.

You had the Federal government on one hand asserting that the South had no right to secede and on the other unseated their representatives from the House.

You do recognize that they wouldn't have made 2/3 of the full House, correct?

 

[bignateyk]

LOL. My dad's enjoying his free vacation making GS-15 pay.

 

[BUnit1701]

Why? Because they're extortionists, of honest Repubs & the rest of the country, too.

They're currently attempting to dictate policy from a minority position, which is completely anti-democracy.

Well you may not be aware of this, but we live under a constitutional republic. Such a system is designed to protect the minority from majority rule by empowering them to stand up to the majority. Remember, democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

 

[nixium]

Well you may not be aware of this, but we live under a constitutional republic. Such a system is designed to protect the minority from majority rule by empowering them to stand up to the majority. Remember, democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Except in this case the minority are a bunch of bigots, idiots, racists secretly manipulated by billionaires.

Why should such a minority have any say?

 

[zinfamous]

pro choice is generally the more popular option.

Ending slavery was the minority position, both in the House and in the general population.

Do you know the term: "Tyranny of the Majority?"

Further, it's funny that you call slavery the "minority position." I'm just going to assume that you are ignoring the position of all the slaves--the population of which vastly outnumbered the slave owners in the South.

I would call you cute, but that would be inaccurate.

 

[piasabird]

The senate and the president would have to sign it. Good luck with that! I have no doubt that they will get their back pay. In the 70's when I was in the Military similar things like this occurred. At that time they got their back pay. However, sometimes government workers are furloughed and lose like 2 days a month. They were just out of luck with that.

 

[dbk]

The senate and the president would have to sign it. Good luck with that! I have no doubt that they will get their back pay. In the 70's when I was in the Military similar things like this occurred. At that time they got their back pay. However, sometimes government workers are furloughed and lose like 2 days a month. They were just out of luck with that.

Don't forget the sequestration implemented furloughs that occurred few months ago.. I don't believe anyone's getting backpay from that.

 

[Jhhnn]

Who is being dishonest now? 2/3 majority of the remaining states.

You had the Federal government on one hand asserting that the South had no right to secede and on the other unseated their representatives from the House.

You do recognize that they wouldn't have made 2/3 of the full House, correct?

Yeh, states engaged in armed insurrection to preserve slavery should have had the same say as everybody else, right? Yeh, we should have won the civil war so that the South could preserve slavery, right?

That's exquisitely lame. Only right wing apologists would claim that states have the right to be represented in two national govts simultaneously, or that an unreconstructed South should immediately have had the same rights as Union States. They'd have just kept slavery, as you suggest.

Entirely too much blood had been shed at the insistence of the South, who initiated hostilities in the first place.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well you may not be aware of this, but we live under a constitutional republic. Such a system is designed to protect the minority from majority rule by empowering them to stand up to the majority. Remember, democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Which is why we have the Senate, and the filibuster.

What HOR teahadists give us is just extortion, achieved by extorting the leadership of their own party.

 

[velillen]

Don't forget the sequestration implemented furloughs that occurred few months ago.. I don't believe anyone's getting backpay from that.

That is a completely different scenario to be honest. That one was planned out a lot. We knew exactly what we were getting into. Tons of info on getting help during it. We knew weeks in advance that we would be furloughed and could plan for it. We also were still getting paychecks.

THis one was rather sudden and unplanned. We literally showed up to work monday and all we heard was "we hope they fix and still come in tuesday". Come in Tuesday and it was a wait 4-6 hours to see if you get furloughed or not. You get furloughed and its good bye go home. No extra info nothing. If you got sent home (furloughed) you were told you wouldnt be getting paid for furlough days. o and DFAS is being furloughed so you might not even get this paycheck either....Those that had to stay were "accepted furlough". IE still come to work and youll get paid someday. But same info on the no idea when our next paycheck would be. Only in the days following did we really get questions answered (which were no help to furloughed people).


Just trying to explain how different the sequestration was vs this furlough. One was planned and you still got paid. The other was found out that day and you had no idea (and still dont)of when you will be paid or even how much. Lots of stress for some people

 

[GrGr]

And in your own words "somebody may happen along who will read our posts and see"

Somebody may. I wish you a lot of luck in that.

I see exactly what Moonbeam is talking about. He is pointing out to you that your ego fixation is hypnotizing you to the point you cannot see reality beyond what your ego allows you to see. If you can realize that your ego is nothing but a construct based on your adaptation to your environment through ideas you have accepted as the truth then maybe you can see that this ego construct is infinitely programmable in it's randomness. Your ego fixation is so powerful had the programming taken place in another environment you could just as well have been a Taliban or Stalinist or whatever because the good you had accepted as the good would have been the good of the environment you were brought up in.

It is easy for you to see that the 'good' of the others (like the Taliban) is not the 'good' because the 'good' has other values attached to it. But in this light it is easy to see that your own 'good' is equally troubled, because this 'good' is also a construct of ideas that do not hold up to the scrutiny of reality.

That is why it pays off to go deeper into yourself and look beyond the constructs of 'good' and see where it all starts, the place where there are no constructs and end your self hypnotization. Get to know yourself.