You can't pick a side in the Middle East to back because they keep changing sides and attacking each other even if they were former allies. That region has been trying to kill each other for centuries.
I suggest that is all about strategy.You can't pick a side in the Middle East to back because they keep changing sides and attacking each other even if they were former allies. That region has been trying to kill each other for centuries.
The moment we betrayed the Saudis they turned from us, got more buddy buddy with Russia / China, and decided to play neutral / nice with the Houthis. Problem with being a US ally is we don't let our allies win. We hold them back. We hold them to a different standard than the rest of the world would. Sometimes it is deeply unrealistic and costly to us all.So either you buddy up with a reginal force that will dominate and submit these proto civilizations, supply them with superior weapons and technology. Or you dont move your shit through their neighborhood and remove dependence on said goods.
If we're talking about defeating a people militarily, of course it can be done. But we don't have the stomach for getting our hands dirty. For acting like Russia or the rest of the world. If they had the power they would not hesitate in this situation.^^^ Here's the thing. As with Hamas, a group willing to hurt their own people cannot reasonably be defeated militarily unless you try to eradicate them totally, which simply cannot be done, as we see in Gaza.
Yep. Why we can't see that staying out of that part of the world is just a good idea.You can't pick a side in the Middle East to back because they keep changing sides and attacking each other even if they were former allies. That region has been trying to kill each other for centuries.
Yep. Why we can't see that staying out of that part of the world is just a good idea.
Plenty in South America, or even just brine from desalination plant. No need to kill brown people for it.And when lithium is discovered.. we'll go in all guns blazing.
Plenty in South America, or even just brine from desalination plant. No need to kill brown people for it.
The Sauds aren't American allies or friends, never were. They buy weapons from American companies. That is the extent of a positive relationship with the Sauds, well connected American weapons manufacturers make money. All the rest is negative. The Sauds are the primary sponsors of Islamic extremism and the organizers and funders of most Islamic terrorist groups.The moment we betrayed the Saudis they turned from us, got more buddy buddy with Russia / China, and decided to play neutral / nice with the Houtis. Problem with being a US ally is we don't let our allies win. We hold them back. We hold them to a different standard than the rest of the world would. Sometimes it is deeply unrealistic and costly to us all.
Iran is the arms supply for the Houtis. Either we kill the dealer, or we kill the user.
If we're talking about defeating a people militarily, of course it can be done. But we don't have the stomach for getting our hands dirty. For acting like Russia or the rest of the world. If they had the power they would not hesitate in this situation.
Is it wrong to NOT want to surround them, and bomb their cities into husks? To control the flow of material until there are no more drones and missiles?
Many people here no doubt view staying our hand as the moral decision. To be clear, I respect that. While I would make a different choice, I do respect yours and if that is what prevails in our nation's decision making, then whatever. While the Houtis are hurting a great many people by their actions, it's not like they are invading other nations. Not stopping them is a decision I can live with. The primary contention is I'm not going to pretend it is the only option. If the Houtis block the Red Sea, and the Suez Canal, that is a choice we are making to not get our hands dirty to solve a military problem.
A long term solution necessarily involves local and regional partners who are interested in keeping the peace, and waterways open. I would not mind seeing Yemen cease to exist and Saudis control that land indefinitely. Or Egypt for that matter. If they care about their canal. There are solutions, we just do not appear to want them. So maybe China / Russia / Iran control that water way now. Heck of an economic boon to them. They could blackmail Europe with the Suez under their control.
You are a bit late to the game.Yes but you forget American imperialism. Use from other parts of the world first.. since it's cheap and abundant, and when you run into supply constraints, then your local one can fetch a premium later on.
Just like shale!
They were until they realized its come back to bite them in the ass. One of Islamic terrorists main objectives is the overthrow of the House of Saud and has been since the 90s (after the the gulf war).The Sauds aren't American allies or friends, never were. They buy weapons from American companies. That is the extent of a positive relationship with the Sauds, well connected American weapons manufacturers make money. All the rest is negative. The Sauds are the primary sponsors of Islamic extremism and the organizers and funders of most Islamic terrorist groups.
Cities and such have tried time and time again to rid themselves, to exterminate rats, pigeons, cats, and even dogs. And yet, they are all still with us. You getting the drift here?Seems to me…if you have pack of wild dogs attacking people who are just walking by…you do something to eliminate said pack of wild dogs…the same concept should apply here.
The Sauds have not dialed back their sponsorship of Islamic extremism, still funding nutjobs throughout North Africa and the Sahel.They were until they realized its come back to bite them in the ass. One of Islamic terrorists main objectives is the overthrow of the House of Saud and has been since the 90s (after the the gulf war).
The Sauds funded and supported Islamic (Sunni) extremism in the region mainly as a counterweight to Irans (Shia) extremism after Khomeini came to power in 1979. Iran had become a major adversary to the Sauds due to their alignment with the west and began stirring unrest within Saudis Shia minority in the oil rich Eastern region and in later years their support for Hezbollah, the Houthis and other Shia groups in the region (mainly Iraq). The Houthis posed the biggest threat in recent years after they demonstrated their ability to target Saudi oil facilities (which they attacked with drones).
A big element of Sunni extremism is its virulent opposition to the Shia branch of Islam which they consider heretic. Thus the Sauds attempt to capitalize on that and began funding Sunnis in Afghanistan and Pakistan (Irans immediate neighbors). But eventually Sunni extremism became the monster thats come back to threaten them as much the Shia groups. After Sept 11 they escalated their activities with terrrorist attacks within Saudi in attempts to undermine the Sauds with the hope of overthrowing them. Thats when the Sauds started to dial things back and condemn Sunni extremism and remove its teachings from their schools and mosques and allow for more liberal societal changes. So in essence, they are no longer "the primary sponsors of Islamic extremism".
In 2024? Who precisely in North Africa and Sahel?The Sauds have not dialed back their sponsorship of Islamic extremism, still funding nutjobs throughout North Africa and the Sahel.
Yeah…they half-assed it. Turn the ENTIRE middle east into nuclear glass with NOTHING above ground except American-owned oil wells…Cities and such have tried time and time again to rid themselves, to exterminate rats, pigeons, cats, and even dogs. And yet, they are all still with us. You getting the drift here?
We would just move in and become the new rats. You have to glassify the whole glove to be sure and then pray the cockroaches don't evolve.Yeah…they half-assed it. Turn the ENTIRE middle east into nuclear glass with NOTHING above ground except American-owned oil wells…
In this scenario the Saudis were motivated to clear Yemen of a common enemy.The Sauds aren't American allies or friends, never were. They buy weapons from American companies. That is the extent of a positive relationship with the Sauds, well connected American weapons manufacturers make money. All the rest is negative. The Sauds are the primary sponsors of Islamic extremism and the organizers and funders of most Islamic terrorist groups.
The Sauds were out to replace one enemy of the US with their pet enemy of the US. The Saud backed faction harbored the terrorists who attacked the USS Cole.In this scenario the Sauds were motivated to clear Yemen of a common enemy.
We stopped them, and through this ceasefire, gave power to the Iran backed Houthis.
By our hand, our enemy controls the Red Sea.
They were butchering a lot of innocent Yemenis, making enemies of the regular people just like we did in Afghanistan. Saudi pilots didn't give a damn and weren't about to risk their pampered asses for accuracy.In this scenario the Saudis were motivated to clear Yemen of a common enemy.
We stopped them, and through this ceasefire, gave power to the Iran backed Houthis.
By our hand, our enemy controls the Red Sea.
That's the thing that eludes me with America receding from patrolling and securing international shipping routes.. Cause globalization is another method of having shit done for you dirt cheap without calling it slavery. Well one aspect of it. It stands to reason from a geopolitical perspective that you would seek to extend that advantage with the dollar being the de facto internationally recognized currency ... Is Chinese labor not cheap anymore?And when lithium is discovered.. we'll go in all guns blazing.
If southerners started taking Black people as slaves again, I do believe we would have more than words with them."If we're talking about defeating a people militarily, of course it can be done."
See ISIS. 'Defeated' militarily, but still out there.
Also see the Confederacy. Also defeated militarily, but still out there and causing problems.