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0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
http://www.newsreview.com/issues/chico/2003-01-09/cover.asp
Have you ever wondered why sport-utility-vehicle drivers seem like such jerks? Surely it's no coincidence that Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, tours Washington in one of the biggest SUVs on the market, the Cadillac Escalade, or that Jesse Ventura loves the Lincoln Navigator.

Well, according to New York Times reporter Keith Bradsher's new book, High and Mighty, the connection between the two isn't a coincidence. Unlike any other vehicle before it, the SUV is the car of choice for the nation's most self-centered people; and the bigger the SUV, the more of a jerk its driver is likely to be.

According to market research conducted by the country's leading automakers, Bradsher reports, SUV buyers tend to be "insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities. They are more restless, more sybaritic, and less social than most Americans are. They tend to like fine restaurants a lot more than off-road driving, seldom go to church and have limited interest in doing volunteer work to help others."

He says, too, that SUV drivers generally don't care about anyone else's kids but their own, are very concerned with how other people see them rather than with what's practical, and they tend to want to control or have control over the people around them. David Bostwick, Chrysler's market research director, tells Bradsher, "If you have a sport utility, you can have the smoked windows, put the children in the back and pretend you're still single."

Armed with such research, automakers have, over the past decade, ramped up their SUV designs to appeal even more to the "reptilian" instincts of the many Americans who are attracted to SUVs not because of their perceived safety, but for their obvious aggressiveness. Automakers have intentionally designed the latest models to resemble ferocious animals. The Dodge Durango, for instance, was built to resemble a savage jungle cat, with vertical bars across the grille to represent teeth and big jaw-like fenders. Bradsher quotes a former Ford market researcher who says the SUV craze is "about not letting anything get in your way, and at the extreme about intimidating others to get out of your way."

Not surprisingly, most SUV customers over the past decade hail from a group that is the embodiment of American narcissism: baby boomers. Affluent and often socially liberal, baby boomers have embraced the four-wheel-drive SUV as a symbol of their ability to defy the conventions of old age, of their independence and "outdoorsiness," making the off-road vehicle a force to be reckoned with on the American blacktop.

But as Bradsher declares in his title, this baby boomer fetish is considerably more harmful than the mere annoyance of yet another Rolling Stones tour or the endless commercials for Propecia. In their attempt to appear youthful and hip, SUV owners have filled the American highways with vehicles that exact a distinctly human cost, frequently killing innocent drivers who would have survived a collision with a lesser vehicle. Bradsher quotes auto execs who concede that the self-centered lifestyle of SUV buyers is apparent in "their willingness to endanger other motorists so as to achieve small improvements in their personal safety."

After covering the auto industry for six years, Bradsher is an unabashed critic of sport-utility vehicles and the automakers that continue to churn them out knowing full well the dangers they pose. He doesn't equivocate in his feeling that driving an SUV is a deeply immoral act that places the driver's own ego above the health and safety of those around him, not to mention the health of the environment. Ironically, and though most supposedly safety-conscious owners don't realize it, SUVs even imperil those who drive them.

Photo By Tom Angel

Road Rodeo
Ask a typical SUV driver why he drives such a formidable vehicle, and he'll invariably insist that it's for safety reasons--the kids, you know--not because he's too vain to get behind the wheel of a sissy Ford Windstar. Automakers themselves know otherwise; their own market research tells them so.

But Bradsher makes painfully clear that the belief in SUV safety is a delusion. For decades, automakers seeking to avoid tougher fuel economy standards have invoked the fiction that the bigger the car, the safer the passenger. As a result, most Americans take it on faith that the only way to be safe on the highway is to be driving a tank (or the next best thing, a Hummer). Bradsher shatters this myth and highlights the strange disconnect between the perception and the reality of SUVs.

The occupant death rate in SUVs is 6 percent higher than it is for cars--8 percent higher in the largest SUVs. The main reason is that SUVs carry a high risk of rollover; 62 percent of SUV deaths in 2000 occurred in rollover accidents. SUVs don't handle well, so drivers can't respond quickly when the car hits a stretch of uneven pavement or "trips" by scraping a guardrail. Even a small bump in the road is enough to flip an SUV traveling at high speed. On top of that, SUV roofs are not reinforced to protect the occupants against rollover; nor does the government require them to be.

Because of their vehicles' size and four-wheel drive, SUV drivers tend to overestimate their own security, which prompts many to drive like maniacs, particularly in inclement weather. And SUV drivers--ever image-conscious and overconfident--seem to hate seat belts as much as they love talking on their cell phones while driving. Bradsher reports that four-fifths of those killed in rollovers were not belted in, even though 75 percent of the general driving population now buckles up regularly.

While failing to protect their occupants, SUVs have also made the roads more dangerous for others. The "kill rate," as Bradsher calls it, for SUVs is simply jaw-dropping. For every one life saved by driving an SUV, five others will be taken. Government researchers have found that a behemoth like the four-ton Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for every 1 million models on the road; by comparison, the Honda Accord kills only 21. Injuries in SUV-related accidents are likewise more severe.

Part of the reason for the high kill rate is that cars offer very little protection against an SUV hitting them from the side--not because of the weight, but because of the design. When a car is hit from the side by another car, the victim is 6.6 times as likely to die as the aggressor. But if the aggressor is an SUV, the car driver's relative chance of dying rises to 30 to 1, because the hood of an SUV is so high off the ground. Rather than hitting the reinforced doors of a car with its bumper, an SUV will slam into more vulnerable areas and strike a car driver in the head or chest, where injuries are more life-threatening.

But before you get an SUV just for defensive purposes, think again. Any safety gains that might accrue are cancelled out by the high risk of rollover deaths, which usually don't involve other cars.

Ironically, SUVs are particularly dangerous for children, whose safety is often the rationale for buying them in the first place. Because these beasts are so big and hard to see around (and often equipped with dark-tinted glass that's illegal in cars), SUV drivers have a troubling tendency to run over their own kids. Just recently, in October, a wealthy Long Island doctor made headlines after he ran over and killed his 2-year-old in the driveway with his BMW X5. He told police he thought he'd hit the curb.

Photo By Tom Angel
BRUTE FORCE This Hummer was spotted parked in front of the Chico Chamber of Commerce.

To illustrate the kind of selfishness that marks some SUV drivers, Bradsher finds people who rave about how they've survived accidents with barely a scratch, yet neglected to mention that the people in the other car were all killed. (One such woman confesses rather chillingly to Bradsher that her first response after killing another driver was to go out and get an even bigger SUV.)

The tragedy of SUVs is that highway fatalities were actually in decline before SUVs came into vogue, even though Americans were driving farther. This is true largely for one simple reason: the seatbelt. Seatbelt usage rose from 14 percent in 1984 to 73 percent in 2001. But seatbelts aren't much help if you're sideswiped by an Escalade, a prospect that looms yet more ominously as SUVs enter the used-car market. Not surprisingly, last year, for the first time in a decade, the number of highway deaths actually rose.

No Roads Scholars Here
Bradsher blames government for failing to adequately regulate SUVs but doesn't fully acknowledge the degree to which it has encouraged SUV production by becoming a major consumer of them. Law enforcement and public-safety agencies in particular seem enamored of the menacing vehicles, a fact on proud display when officers finally apprehended the alleged snipers in the Washington, D.C., area and transported them to the federal courthouse in a parade of black Ford Explorers and Expeditions.

Judging from the number of official SUVs on the road today, law enforcement officials--those most likely to know firsthand the grisly effects of a rollover--are enthusiastic customers. Like the rest of America, police departments seem to believe that replacing safe, sturdy cars with SUVs is a good idea, though it's hard to imagine a more dangerous vehicle for an officer conducting a high-speed chase.

Government's taste for SUVs isn't limited to cops and firemen. There's hardly a city in America where the mayor's chauffeured Lincoln Town Car hasn't been replaced by an SUV. In Virginia, where state officials recently discovered that SUVs were wrecking their efforts to meet clean-air regulations, a few noted sheepishly that perhaps local governments should sell their own fleets, which had ballooned to 250 in Fairfax County alone. (A Fairfax County official told The Washington Post that public-safety officials needed four-wheel drive and large cargo spaces to transport extra people and emergency equipment through snow or heavy rain--proof that even law enforcement officials misunderstand SUV safety records.)

As Bradsher details, because of their weight, shoddy brakes and off-road tires, SUVs handle poorly in bad weather and have trouble stopping on slick roads. What's more, they're generally so poorly designed as not to be capable of carrying much cargo, despite the space. A contributing factor in the Ford Explorer-Firestone tire debacle was that drivers weren't told that their Explorers shouldn't carry any more weight than a Ford Taurus. The extra weight routinely piled in these big cars stressed the tires in a way that made them fall apart faster and contributed to the spate of rollover deaths.

I have a hunch that government officials' justification for buying SUVs is mostly a ruse for their real motivation, which is the same as any other SUV owner's: image. Officials can safely load up their fleets with leather-seated SUVs, whereas using taxpayer dollars to buy themselves, say, a fleet of BMW coupes would get them crucified (even though Detroit considers SUVs luxury vehicles and designs them accordingly). Police departments may claim that they need an SUV to accommodate SWAT teams or canine units, but there is no reason that Sparky the drug dog wouldn't be just as comfortable in the back of a nice safe Chevy Astrovan.

The cover of the book that reveals the evils of SUVs.

The same is true for nearly everyone who drives an SUV today. Of course, not every SUV owner is gripped by insecurity and a death wish--plenty of otherwise reasonable people seem to get seduced by power and size.

But if soccer moms and office-park dads really need to ferry a lot of people around, they could simply get a large car or a minivan, which Bradsher hails as a great innovation for its fuel efficiency, safety and lower pollution. (And minivans don't have a disproportionately high kill rate for motorists or pedestrians when they get into accidents.) According to industry market research, minivan drivers also tend to be very nice people. Minivans are favored by senior citizens and others (male and female, equally) who volunteer for their churches and carpool with other people's kids. But that's the problem. SUV owners buy them precisely because they don't want the "soccer mom" stigma associated with minivans.

While Bradsher does a magnificent job of shattering the myths about SUVs, he has a difficult time proposing a solution. Sport utility vehicles have become like guns: Everyone knows they're dangerous, but you can't exactly force millions of Americans to give them up overnight. And because the SUV is single-handedly responsible for revitalizing the once-depressed American auto industry, the economy is now so dependent on their production that it would be nearly impossible to get them off the road.

Bradsher suggests regulating SUVs like cars rather than as light trucks, so that they would be forced to comply with fuel-efficiency standards and safety regulations. He also proposes that the insurance industry stop shifting the high costs of the SUV dangers onto car owners by raising premium prices for SUVs to reflect the amount of damage they cause. But these ideas, commendable though they are, fall short of a perfect answer.

Clearly, the best solution would be for Americans to realize the danger of SUVs and simply stop buying them. Social pressure can be a powerful determinant on car choices, as seen in Japan, the one country where SUVs have not caught on because of cultural checks that emphasize the good of the community over that of the individual. There are signs that perhaps public sentiment is beginning to shift against SUV drivers here, too, as activists have begun to leave nasty flyers on SUV windshields berating drivers for fouling the environment and other offenses.

But, for a true reckoning to take place, image-obsessed Americans will need to fully understand the SUV's true dangers--including to themselves--before they will willingly abandon it to the junkyard. Spreading that message against the nation's biggest advertiser--the auto industry--will be tough work. Drivers can only hope that Bradsher's book will cut through the chatter.

Stephanie Mencimer is a contributing editor of The Washington Monthly.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.newsreview.com/issues/chico/2003-01-09/cover.asp
Have you ever wondered why sport-utility-vehicle drivers seem like such jerks? Surely it's no coincidence that Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, tours Washington in one of the biggest SUVs on the market, the Cadillac Escalade, or that Jesse Ventura loves the Lincoln Navigator.

Well, according to New York Times reporter Keith Bradsher's new book, High and Mighty, the connection between the two isn't a coincidence. Unlike any other vehicle before it, the SUV is the car of choice for the nation's most self-centered people; and the bigger the SUV, the more of a jerk its driver is likely to be.

According to market research conducted by the country's leading automakers, Bradsher reports, SUV buyers tend to be "insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities. They are more restless, more sybaritic, and less social than most Americans are. They tend to like fine restaurants a lot more than off-road driving, seldom go to church and have limited interest in doing volunteer work to help others."

He says, too, that SUV drivers generally don't care about anyone else's kids but their own, are very concerned with how other people see them rather than with what's practical, and they tend to want to control or have control over the people around them. David Bostwick, Chrysler's market research director, tells Bradsher, "If you have a sport utility, you can have the smoked windows, put the children in the back and pretend you're still single."

Armed with such research, automakers have, over the past decade, ramped up their SUV designs to appeal even more to the "reptilian" instincts of the many Americans who are attracted to SUVs not because of their perceived safety, but for their obvious aggressiveness. Automakers have intentionally designed the latest models to resemble ferocious animals. The Dodge Durango, for instance, was built to resemble a savage jungle cat, with vertical bars across the grille to represent teeth and big jaw-like fenders. Bradsher quotes a former Ford market researcher who says the SUV craze is "about not letting anything get in your way, and at the extreme about intimidating others to get out of your way."

Not surprisingly, most SUV customers over the past decade hail from a group that is the embodiment of American narcissism: baby boomers. Affluent and often socially liberal, baby boomers have embraced the four-wheel-drive SUV as a symbol of their ability to defy the conventions of old age, of their independence and "outdoorsiness," making the off-road vehicle a force to be reckoned with on the American blacktop.

But as Bradsher declares in his title, this baby boomer fetish is considerably more harmful than the mere annoyance of yet another Rolling Stones tour or the endless commercials for Propecia. In their attempt to appear youthful and hip, SUV owners have filled the American highways with vehicles that exact a distinctly human cost, frequently killing innocent drivers who would have survived a collision with a lesser vehicle. Bradsher quotes auto execs who concede that the self-centered lifestyle of SUV buyers is apparent in "their willingness to endanger other motorists so as to achieve small improvements in their personal safety."

After covering the auto industry for six years, Bradsher is an unabashed critic of sport-utility vehicles and the automakers that continue to churn them out knowing full well the dangers they pose. He doesn't equivocate in his feeling that driving an SUV is a deeply immoral act that places the driver's own ego above the health and safety of those around him, not to mention the health of the environment. Ironically, and though most supposedly safety-conscious owners don't realize it, SUVs even imperil those who drive them.

Photo By Tom Angel

Road Rodeo
Ask a typical SUV driver why he drives such a formidable vehicle, and he'll invariably insist that it's for safety reasons--the kids, you know--not because he's too vain to get behind the wheel of a sissy Ford Windstar. Automakers themselves know otherwise; their own market research tells them so.

But Bradsher makes painfully clear that the belief in SUV safety is a delusion. For decades, automakers seeking to avoid tougher fuel economy standards have invoked the fiction that the bigger the car, the safer the passenger. As a result, most Americans take it on faith that the only way to be safe on the highway is to be driving a tank (or the next best thing, a Hummer). Bradsher shatters this myth and highlights the strange disconnect between the perception and the reality of SUVs.

The occupant death rate in SUVs is 6 percent higher than it is for cars--8 percent higher in the largest SUVs. The main reason is that SUVs carry a high risk of rollover; 62 percent of SUV deaths in 2000 occurred in rollover accidents. SUVs don't handle well, so drivers can't respond quickly when the car hits a stretch of uneven pavement or "trips" by scraping a guardrail. Even a small bump in the road is enough to flip an SUV traveling at high speed. On top of that, SUV roofs are not reinforced to protect the occupants against rollover; nor does the government require them to be.

Because of their vehicles' size and four-wheel drive, SUV drivers tend to overestimate their own security, which prompts many to drive like maniacs, particularly in inclement weather. And SUV drivers--ever image-conscious and overconfident--seem to hate seat belts as much as they love talking on their cell phones while driving. Bradsher reports that four-fifths of those killed in rollovers were not belted in, even though 75 percent of the general driving population now buckles up regularly.

While failing to protect their occupants, SUVs have also made the roads more dangerous for others. The "kill rate," as Bradsher calls it, for SUVs is simply jaw-dropping. For every one life saved by driving an SUV, five others will be taken. Government researchers have found that a behemoth like the four-ton Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for every 1 million models on the road; by comparison, the Honda Accord kills only 21. Injuries in SUV-related accidents are likewise more severe.

Part of the reason for the high kill rate is that cars offer very little protection against an SUV hitting them from the side--not because of the weight, but because of the design. When a car is hit from the side by another car, the victim is 6.6 times as likely to die as the aggressor. But if the aggressor is an SUV, the car driver's relative chance of dying rises to 30 to 1, because the hood of an SUV is so high off the ground. Rather than hitting the reinforced doors of a car with its bumper, an SUV will slam into more vulnerable areas and strike a car driver in the head or chest, where injuries are more life-threatening.

But before you get an SUV just for defensive purposes, think again. Any safety gains that might accrue are cancelled out by the high risk of rollover deaths, which usually don't involve other cars.

Ironically, SUVs are particularly dangerous for children, whose safety is often the rationale for buying them in the first place. Because these beasts are so big and hard to see around (and often equipped with dark-tinted glass that's illegal in cars), SUV drivers have a troubling tendency to run over their own kids. Just recently, in October, a wealthy Long Island doctor made headlines after he ran over and killed his 2-year-old in the driveway with his BMW X5. He told police he thought he'd hit the curb.

Photo By Tom Angel
BRUTE FORCE This Hummer was spotted parked in front of the Chico Chamber of Commerce.

To illustrate the kind of selfishness that marks some SUV drivers, Bradsher finds people who rave about how they've survived accidents with barely a scratch, yet neglected to mention that the people in the other car were all killed. (One such woman confesses rather chillingly to Bradsher that her first response after killing another driver was to go out and get an even bigger SUV.)

The tragedy of SUVs is that highway fatalities were actually in decline before SUVs came into vogue, even though Americans were driving farther. This is true largely for one simple reason: the seatbelt. Seatbelt usage rose from 14 percent in 1984 to 73 percent in 2001. But seatbelts aren't much help if you're sideswiped by an Escalade, a prospect that looms yet more ominously as SUVs enter the used-car market. Not surprisingly, last year, for the first time in a decade, the number of highway deaths actually rose.

No Roads Scholars Here
Bradsher blames government for failing to adequately regulate SUVs but doesn't fully acknowledge the degree to which it has encouraged SUV production by becoming a major consumer of them. Law enforcement and public-safety agencies in particular seem enamored of the menacing vehicles, a fact on proud display when officers finally apprehended the alleged snipers in the Washington, D.C., area and transported them to the federal courthouse in a parade of black Ford Explorers and Expeditions.

Judging from the number of official SUVs on the road today, law enforcement officials--those most likely to know firsthand the grisly effects of a rollover--are enthusiastic customers. Like the rest of America, police departments seem to believe that replacing safe, sturdy cars with SUVs is a good idea, though it's hard to imagine a more dangerous vehicle for an officer conducting a high-speed chase.

Government's taste for SUVs isn't limited to cops and firemen. There's hardly a city in America where the mayor's chauffeured Lincoln Town Car hasn't been replaced by an SUV. In Virginia, where state officials recently discovered that SUVs were wrecking their efforts to meet clean-air regulations, a few noted sheepishly that perhaps local governments should sell their own fleets, which had ballooned to 250 in Fairfax County alone. (A Fairfax County official told The Washington Post that public-safety officials needed four-wheel drive and large cargo spaces to transport extra people and emergency equipment through snow or heavy rain--proof that even law enforcement officials misunderstand SUV safety records.)

As Bradsher details, because of their weight, shoddy brakes and off-road tires, SUVs handle poorly in bad weather and have trouble stopping on slick roads. What's more, they're generally so poorly designed as not to be capable of carrying much cargo, despite the space. A contributing factor in the Ford Explorer-Firestone tire debacle was that drivers weren't told that their Explorers shouldn't carry any more weight than a Ford Taurus. The extra weight routinely piled in these big cars stressed the tires in a way that made them fall apart faster and contributed to the spate of rollover deaths.

I have a hunch that government officials' justification for buying SUVs is mostly a ruse for their real motivation, which is the same as any other SUV owner's: image. Officials can safely load up their fleets with leather-seated SUVs, whereas using taxpayer dollars to buy themselves, say, a fleet of BMW coupes would get them crucified (even though Detroit considers SUVs luxury vehicles and designs them accordingly). Police departments may claim that they need an SUV to accommodate SWAT teams or canine units, but there is no reason that Sparky the drug dog wouldn't be just as comfortable in the back of a nice safe Chevy Astrovan.

The cover of the book that reveals the evils of SUVs.

The same is true for nearly everyone who drives an SUV today. Of course, not every SUV owner is gripped by insecurity and a death wish--plenty of otherwise reasonable people seem to get seduced by power and size.

But if soccer moms and office-park dads really need to ferry a lot of people around, they could simply get a large car or a minivan, which Bradsher hails as a great innovation for its fuel efficiency, safety and lower pollution. (And minivans don't have a disproportionately high kill rate for motorists or pedestrians when they get into accidents.) According to industry market research, minivan drivers also tend to be very nice people. Minivans are favored by senior citizens and others (male and female, equally) who volunteer for their churches and carpool with other people's kids. But that's the problem. SUV owners buy them precisely because they don't want the "soccer mom" stigma associated with minivans.

While Bradsher does a magnificent job of shattering the myths about SUVs, he has a difficult time proposing a solution. Sport utility vehicles have become like guns: Everyone knows they're dangerous, but you can't exactly force millions of Americans to give them up overnight. And because the SUV is single-handedly responsible for revitalizing the once-depressed American auto industry, the economy is now so dependent on their production that it would be nearly impossible to get them off the road.

Bradsher suggests regulating SUVs like cars rather than as light trucks, so that they would be forced to comply with fuel-efficiency standards and safety regulations. He also proposes that the insurance industry stop shifting the high costs of the SUV dangers onto car owners by raising premium prices for SUVs to reflect the amount of damage they cause. But these ideas, commendable though they are, fall short of a perfect answer.

Clearly, the best solution would be for Americans to realize the danger of SUVs and simply stop buying them. Social pressure can be a powerful determinant on car choices, as seen in Japan, the one country where SUVs have not caught on because of cultural checks that emphasize the good of the community over that of the individual. There are signs that perhaps public sentiment is beginning to shift against SUV drivers here, too, as activists have begun to leave nasty flyers on SUV windshields berating drivers for fouling the environment and other offenses.

But, for a true reckoning to take place, image-obsessed Americans will need to fully understand the SUV's true dangers--including to themselves--before they will willingly abandon it to the junkyard. Spreading that message against the nation's biggest advertiser--the auto industry--will be tough work. Drivers can only hope that Bradsher's book will cut through the chatter.

Stephanie Mencimer is a contributing editor of The Washington Monthly.

Certainly THATS an unbaised and fair study. And I suppose all Honda drivers are young, wear their hats backwards, have baggy pants and say Yo alot then too eh?

 

OffTopic1

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2004
1,764
0
0

Cry me a river. If you translate gas price vs. household income from the 50s...today gas price should be $23.00 per gallon.


Rental Cars and Gas Prices

1950 -- $1.91
1960 -- $1.79
1970 -- $1.59
1980 -- $2.59
1990 -- $1.51
1995 -- $1.28
2001 -- $1.66
2004 -- $1.574~$2.158 = $1.866 average


Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950 -- "Average family income in 1950 was $3,300"

Three-Year-Average Median Household Income by State: 2000-2002 -- $30,072 ~ $55,912 = $42,992 US average
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Originally posted by: rh71
Ok so now the generalization is that most/all SUVs drive slow while most/all sports cars drive faster...

No, it's not a generalizations, it is simple physics. If the SUV is getting the same gas mileage as a sports car, and the SUV is twice as heavy, it's going to be a lot slower.

My point was that in a sports car you gain performance by sacrificing fuel economy, in an SUV you sacrifice fuel economy just to compensate for the size of your vehicle.
And that's why SUVs have an added benefit of practicality when it comes to being more than a people mover. But this still has nothing to do with why you're saying the big rigs drive only 3mph above in that left lane you believe you own.
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
1
0
Originally posted by: OffTopic
Cry me a river. If you translate gas price vs. household income from the 50s...today gas price should be $23.00 per gallon.


Rental Cars and Gas Prices

1950 -- $1.91
1960 -- $1.79
1970 -- $1.59
1980 -- $2.59
1990 -- $1.51
1995 -- $1.28
2001 -- $1.66
2004 -- $1.574~$2.158 = $1.866 average


Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950 -- "Average family income in 1950 was $3,300"

Three-Year-Average Median Household Income by State: 2000-2002 -- $30,072 ~ $55,912 = $42,992 US average

Those prices are already adjusted for inflation.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Certainly THATS an unbaised and fair study. And I suppose all Honda drivers are young, wear their hats backwards, have baggy pants and say Yo alot then too eh?
No no no... Honda drivers can also be the practical type since their car has a higher resale value... it also conserves gas... it's the perfect practi-mobile! I drive a Honda and that's why! It's only 4 cylinders... perfect and efficient enough for moving my person... it's low to the ground so I can let other people see beyond me... it's perfect for everyone! How thoughtful am I ?

It's parked right behind my SUV.

These studies mean as much as the crap that's stuck in my toilet right now.
 

OffTopic1

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2004
1,764
0
0
Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
Originally posted by: OffTopic
Cry me a river. If you translate gas price vs. household income from the 50s...today gas price should be $23.00 per gallon.


Rental Cars and Gas Prices

1950 -- $1.91
1960 -- $1.79
1970 -- $1.59
1980 -- $2.59
1990 -- $1.51
1995 -- $1.28
2001 -- $1.66
2004 -- $1.574~$2.158 = $1.866 average


Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950 -- "Average family income in 1950 was $3,300"

Three-Year-Average Median Household Income by State: 2000-2002 -- $30,072 ~ $55,912 = $42,992 US average

Those prices are already adjusted for inflation.
My bad, today gas price isn't that bad when you factor in correctly with the with inflation adjusted calculation.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950 -- "Average family income in 1950 was $3,300

thats not inflation adjusted.. ..

as for studies, its companies own research that tells them these things. are they lying to themselves? they have no incentive to lie to themselves. they hire top psychologists to understand these things so they can better sell what consumers will buy.
 

toant103

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
10,514
1
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Why these gas guzzlers are so popular is beyond me. They certainly have little practical value for most people.

I guess they are good for running other drivers off the road, Which happened to me last weekend. I couldn't see through its frosted windows, but I'm guessing that the driver was clutching a cell phoen.

wait for the new Lexus Hybrid
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
13,217
1
81
you guys are all whiny jealous bitches. i don't drive an suv, but i think people should be able to drive whatever they can afford. i'll take a drive in an suv anyday over a broken down car from the 70s belching thick black smoke on the highway everyday.
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
Some sports cars do have the same MPGs as SUVs but there are definitely a lot more SUVs out there.

I couldn't care less what they drive or how much a full tank of gas costs for them... I just wish people would drive properly. :disgust:
 

murphy55d

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
11,542
5
81
Welcome to America.


I'll drive whatever the fsck I want. Until YOU start paying for my gas or car payment, STFU about what I, or any other SUV owner, drive. It makes no difference whether it's practical or not. (it just so happens that I live in an area where we are getting 6-10 inches of snow in the middle of march, so I'd say my AWD is relatively practical)

 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Originally posted by: rh71
And that's why SUVs have an added benefit of practicality when it comes to being more than a people mover. But this still has nothing to do with why you're saying the big rigs drive only 3mph above in that left lane you believe you own.

As if even 20% of the people who own SUVs ever use them for anything but carting around groceries and kids. And actually it has a lot to do with them moving too slow in a PASSING lane. I don't care if you are driving 20 mph over the limit, the far left lane is for passing.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
yup, most aren't going through mud and snow. esp in places like california where 50f is err cold. u know they have awd minivans to boot? anyways their primary rational of safety for buying them is false. the minivan is safer for their children and themselves, has more space to boot. the fact that the minivan is far more safe for other drivers whereas the suv is a severe and irresponsible/needless hazard isn't on their little supposed christian minds. just remember that next time u hear someone call this a christian nation.
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,021
0
0
I live in So Cal and on my commute, I see so many one occupant SUVs on the freeway. How's that for going offroading and hauling stuff from Home Depot? Those big humongous trucks are just as bad as SUVs. Why on earth does someone need to drive a full sized truck to work? And SUVs do indeed go slow on the fast lane...not only do they get in my way, I can't see a damn thing when i'm behind them.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
0roo0roo, your links there all became worthless with this...
"found that a behemoth like the four-ton Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for "
Good chance most of that study is compl;ete bullshyte, because that statement is. The Tahoe is in line with an Expedition. 5000 pounds. Thats 2.5 tons. Hell, I dont think a Hummer is 4 tons.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Originally posted by: rh71
And that's why SUVs have an added benefit of practicality when it comes to being more than a people mover. But this still has nothing to do with why you're saying the big rigs drive only 3mph above in that left lane you believe you own.

As if even 20% of the people who own SUVs ever use them for anything but carting around groceries and kids. And actually it has a lot to do with them moving too slow in a PASSING lane. I don't care if you are driving 20 mph over the limit, the far left lane is for passing.
First of all, I'd like to know how you arrived at 20%. If it were 90%, would you not care about SUVs getting in your way ?

If you've been reading this thread at all, nobody denies the fact that it's not practical to drive an SUV every single day. THe point is that we have the luxury to use its benefits... just like you and your sports car can go way above a SPEED LIMIT faster... it's a benefit you don't use at every turn or straightaway you take, is it ? Get your story straight... what are you arguing about ? If you say the left lane is for passing (and I agree), why mention that SUV going only 3mph above ? Because they are the only ones ? They are the majority because they are heavier ? If they got rid of all large vehicles... all of them banned, not a single one left on the road and you got into the same situation... would you say "this Saturn wouldn't move the fvck over" or would you say "this b!tch wouldn't move the fvck over" ? Is it the car or driver ?

Please. Your bias is coming out of your @$$.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Originally posted by: rh71
If you say the left lane is for passing (and I agree), why mention that SUV going only 3mph above ? Because they are the only ones ? They are the majority because they are heavier ?

Please. Your bias is coming out of your @$$.

I mention it because it bothers me. It pisses me off to no end when some idiot in an SUV or minivan is in the far left lane and driving right at the limit or a few mph above, but slower than people in other lanes. They aren't the only ones, but this thread is ABOUT SUVs. I'm not going go out of my way to complain about the idiots in BMW M5s who drive slow in the left lane because this thread isn't about idiots in BMW M5s. Do you get it now?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: Shockwave
0roo0roo, your links there all became worthless with this...
"found that a behemoth like the four-ton Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for "
Good chance most of that study is compl;ete bullshyte, because that statement is. The Tahoe is in line with an Expedition. 5000 pounds. Thats 2.5 tons. Hell, I dont think a Hummer is 4 tons.

did you bother to look up the kill rate while your at it? or are you hung up on a quibble of weight as a convenient escape hatch to make you feel better. the fact is the suv is disproportionatly dangerous to others. it is an irresponsible vehicle.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Originally posted by: rh71

would you say "this Saturn wouldn't move the fvck over" or would you say "this b!tch wouldn't move the fvck over" ? Is it the car or driver ?


Actually, a lot of it is the car. I don't mind driving behind a normal sized car because it doesn't ruin my visibility. I don't mind slow SUVs or minivan's as long as I am able to pass them, but when they sit in the left lane it isn't possible.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Originally posted by: rh71
If you say the left lane is for passing (and I agree), why mention that SUV going only 3mph above ? Because they are the only ones ? They are the majority because they are heavier ?

Please. Your bias is coming out of your @$$.

I mention it because it bothers me. It pisses me off to no end when some idiot in an SUV or minivan is in the far left lane and driving right at the limit or a few mph above, but slower than people in other lanes. They aren't the only ones, but this thread is ABOUT SUVs. I'm not going go out of my way to complain about the idiots in BMW M5s who drive slow in the left lane because this thread isn't about idiots in BMW M5s. Do you get it now?

If SUVs are not the only ones to do that it makes your arguement meaningless. I've seen POS Hondas sit in the left lane too. Who gives a flying rats ass what kind of car is being driven during that time? Why not concentrate on the asshole behind the wheel. It's not the vehicle's fault.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Originally posted by: rh71
If you say the left lane is for passing (and I agree), why mention that SUV going only 3mph above ? Because they are the only ones ? They are the majority because they are heavier ?

Please. Your bias is coming out of your @$$.

I mention it because it bothers me. It pisses me off to no end when some idiot in an SUV or minivan is in the far left lane and driving right at the limit or a few mph above, but slower than people in other lanes. They aren't the only ones, but this thread is ABOUT SUVs. I'm not going go out of my way to complain about the idiots in BMW M5s who drive slow in the left lane because this thread isn't about idiots in BMW M5s. Do you get it now?
Oh I got it after your 2nd reply and I'm still laughing.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Originally posted by: iamwiz82


If SUVs are not the only ones to do that it makes your arguement meaningless.

Oh, so since EVERYONE drives slow in the passing lane it's okay?
 
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