How can I find out what processes are using my memory?

[mariner]

Just after I boot up I check Task Mgr where it usually says that 50-51MB of memory is being used. On the Process tab it only adds up to about 34MB?? What/who is using the other16-17MB?

And, after having several apps open, I can close ?em all and check Task Mgr and it usually says that over 60MB is being used Why doesn?t it say 50-51MB ? the post-boot amount? What process is still using the extra 10MB?

Is there a way I can find out where the memory is allocated to? I there a way to ?reclaim? memory that is ?missing? after closing apps?

I am not old enough to be losing my memory:frown:

 

[TheCorm]

SiSoft Sandra tells you all about the processes running in your system, don't think it will let you disable them though, but it tells let you know what they relate to and how much memory they are using.

http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/sandra/

Corm

 

[mariner]

Thx TheCorm. Does SS provide the same sort of info that Task Mgr does? One of my problems is that the memory usage data available in TM is apparently contradictory. It lists all processes along with their mem usage on the Processes tab, but that total doesn't add up to the total listed on the Performance tab. I think I don't understand exactly what the two tabs are telling me

 

[TheCorm]

It provides a whole heap of information, not sure how it compares to TM though because I am not running Windows 2000 (which I presume you are??)

Corm

 

[mariner]

Yes, I'm running 2k. I got Sandra last night but I haven't had a chance to check it out thoroughly. Seems to have more than TM but I didn't get the $30 pro version and some of the modules seem to be absent in the personal edition.

 

[sun818]

Not sure on the first part of your question about the "mystery" 16MB of memory. It could be the kernel, but I dunno.

With regards to your second question:
1) Its possible that although you closed out of your applications, there are background processes that are still running. Internet Explorer and Outlook tend to keep running even if you close out of them.
2) Applications were not closed in the order opened, created "fragmented" RAM space, and lowered your available RAM.

 

[mariner]

Now were getting somewhere!
Thx for dropping by sun818



<< Not sure on the first part of your question about the &quot;mystery&quot; 16MB of memory. It could be the kernel, but I dunno. >>



How so? Explain please




<< 1) Its possible that although you closed out of your applications, there are background processes that are still running. Internet Explorer and Outlook tend to keep running even if you close out of them. >>



How's that possible? I see no unusual processes in Task Mgr. How can I tell which app is still running? How can I really Kill them?



<< 2) Applications were not closed in the order opened, created &quot;fragmented&quot; RAM space, and lowered your available RAM. >>



How can I reclaim that 'fragmented' ram? Do you have any links?

EDIT:
I was just thinking sun818, do BeOS and Linux suffer from these same problems? This is some interesting stuff! Please point me toward some enlightening pages or just explain it if you have time. And don't leave out any of the gory details:Q

 

[AC]

Disk Cache and File Cache can easily fill in that gap. I customized mine to 32MB and 6MB respectively.

[edit]
oh, and with your other problem, it is probably just memory leaks...free utilites such as &quot;RAM Idle&quot; are availiable for all win platforms to defrag and reclaim RAM; don't be too stingy with the settings else your cpu will constantly be occupied with defragging your RAM

 

[mariner]

<< Disk Cache and File Cache can easily fill in that gap. I customized mine to 32MB and 6MB respectively. >>



AC, please explain what 'Disk Cache' and 'File Cache' are. I am unfamiliar with them Are they utilities w/in win2k or can they be had online? What do they do?

Or are you refering to swap files? I don't see my 196MB of memory maxed out in Task Mgr and don't hear a lot of activity on my HDD

Sorry to be so ignorant, but I try to warn folks with my sig

 

[AC]

the disk cache (not to be confused with the one on the hard drive) is ram that win allocates for caching data from the hard drive to RAM this cache is dynamic and varies in size, but u can set a min and a max (i set my min at 32MB and max at 64MB). it also stores recently accessed files (notice that programs load faster the second time around)

the file cache (aka. system resources, GDI and USER stacks, names cache and directory cache) is another set of caches (is there a plural form of this word?) that win uses for its operations the size of these caches are static and therefore cannot change during operation (u can alter the values, but u need to reboot to see the changes)

swap file refers to the file on the hard drive that windows uses for &quot;virtual memory&quot;

 

[CapNjacK]

AC the plural of 'cache' is 'cache' so there is no plural. (I guess) How much ram do you have mariner? My guess on the mystery ram is the kernal. Its been months since I read the books but I believe the core of the windows OS (kernal) uses system memory but is not displayed as an app or process. You can pick up a copy of one of the win2k books and chech that out if you'd like I could be wrong. In general though Windows is notorius for not releasing memory and swap file space properly. If you go to tweakfiles you can find utilities that will attempt to force windows to release the memory and swap space it is no longer using. Personally I do not use any such utility and don't recommend it. There are just some things I don't want freeware doing but if its really bugging you by all means...

 

[AndyHui]

Win2K does not use the USER and GDI stack heaps as under Win3.1/9x/ME. It uses a completely different form of memory management, and so does not have the concept &quot;free resources&quot; as such.

What the Task Manager in Win2K does not account for is open files. Various things loaded into RAM, such as an MP3 file, or the MIDI wavetables for SBLives, are not shown in individual processes, but are included in the total memory used.

 

[mariner]

AC:


<< the disk cache (not to be confused with the one on the hard drive) is ram that win allocates for caching data from the hard drive to RAM this cache is dynamic and varies in size, but u can set a min and a max (i set my min at 32MB and max at 64MB). >>


How did you set your limits? How can I find out what my limits are set at right now? And how did you determine what limits to set, trial and error?



<< swap file refers to the file on the hard drive that windows uses for &quot;virtual memory&quot; >>


Yes, I understand that. Thus my comment that my HDD doesn't seem to be overly active.



<< the file cache (aka. system resources, GDI and USER stacks, names cache and directory cache) is another set of caches >>


I'm just gonna have to do some reading

CapNjack:


<< How much ram do you have mariner? >>


196MB You also mentioned some win2k books; is there a source of this info online? I don't mind doing the reading but I would rather not spend a lot of $$ on books if I find this stuff online somewhere. MSKB articles?

Thx for all the feedback I would like to keep this discussion going. this is very interesting

 

[jaywallen]

Hi, mariner!

Got the notification of your message on another thread to which I was subscribed. I'm not sure what I can add here, except to say that what you're seeing looks normal to me.

I would expect to see a difference between total memory used and the sum of the memory used by all active processes. That would be at least partly due to the kernel. If you look on the performance tab, the non-paged kernel should be approximately equal to the difference RIGHT AFTER BOOT.

Now the difference between total memory used immediately after boot and total memory used after applications have been used and then shut down is due primarily to caching.

A memory leak is typified by a continuous increase in memory used over a period of time when NOTHING is being done with the machine. The easiest test for determining whether or not you have a memory leak is to set the system to boot up without any scheduled operations running (even including screensavers and stuff like that) and to leave the computer alone, just watching the performance tab for memory use. If it continuously rises over time, then a driver or service or non-service process loaded at boot time is leaking memory. Testing active apps for memory leaks is another issue and has to be handled differently, but I've never seen any evidence that W2K has trouble reclaiming memory .

Windows 2000 has a LOT of dynamic memory utilization routines in it. There's little reason, if any, to bother with micromanaging it. I think it's primarily an exercise in futility to bother. You'll make yourself crazy.



Is there something in the behavior of the system that has lead you to believe that there's actually a problem here?

Regards,
Jim

 

[mariner]

Hey jaywallen, glad you got the message I had no other way to get a mesage to you and hoped you'd still be subscribed to that long thread.

As for memory management driving me craze, TOO LATE



<< I would expect to see a difference between total memory used and the sum of the memory used by all active processes. That would be at least partly due to the kernel. If you look on the performance tab, the non-paged kernel should be approximately equal to the difference RIGHT AFTER BOOT. >>



I don't suppose there is anyway to reclaim the cached portion of memory when an app is closed? Some folks have systems that stay up and running for weeks, maybe months! How do they keep their memory freed up?

I had no particular reason to believe that the memory question was a problem in prticular. However, I still think I am experiencing too many IE crashes and am still searching for anything that will eliminate them. Memory management is something I was very unfamiliar with, so, after looking at the Task Mgr numbers just after booting and after having used and closed several apps, I became concerned that something was going on. From the info I have received in this thread I'm thinking that memory usage may not be a problem on my machine. If win2k is that good at 'taking care of my memory' then I won't bother trying to fine tune anything (not that I could anyway).

I guess I'm trying to tweak memory usage like the overclocking folks try to squeeze every last MHz of speed out of a cpu

 

[lumberg]

Hmmm. I just checked out something. I'm using win2k also. I had 130 megs used, closed all programs, then I had 95 being used. Logged off, then back on, to find when nothing is running there are 78 megs being used (win2k is a pig). It appears than ghosts of programs and files may be remaining in RAM, and logging off clears all user specific things (like files being used). There may also be some background applications/services that get started when certain applications are run, to support the main program. Just thought I'd put in my two cents.

Anyone wanting to run win2k- i recommend no less than 128 megs of ram. With only 4 applications running, almost 100 megs of physical RAM are being used. When I start running photoshop I've seen 235 megs of physical ram in use. I couldn't imagine how slow it would be having to page over 150 of those megs. I can't believe than MS recommends 64 megs...

 

[mariner]

Thx for stopping by lumberg. It does seem like there is some mismanagement of memory here. jaywallen says 2k is good at memory management (and I don't know anything about it) so I'm going with his word. I just wish M$ would list all the processes or files or whatever, that are using memory.

And I agree, 64MB is ridiculous!! I had 64 and it just chugged along. I'm using 196 now and have been able to keep from paging too much - but I'm not into heavy graphics (yet). I can see where 256 would be a minimum for a power user.