How can you be a Catholic and vote Democrat?

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: TranceNation
probably the same way you can be a catholic priest and rape little boys...

This is the second time and this kind of bigotry clearly deserves a ban. This is the first time and hopefully the only I will ask for someone to be banned. Hopefully someone will listen.

Yeah, I found that pretty offensive too. Generalizing isn't cool dude.

And neither is child abuse and the Catholic Chirch sweeping it under the carpet for decades!

The last event was this summer, Australia, i made a post about it, been going on decades and swept under the rug.

Fvcking catholics, well, i guess they do not worry about the young boys having to have abortions, do they?

 

[shadow9d9]

I never made a decision for everyone... I merely showed my opinion in contrast... I never proposed for my president to be an advocate for either way... The person that created this thread was saying that no one should vote for Kerry because he is not anti-abortion... That means that he/she is voting for Bush as a means to have Bush force his and their morals on everyone else...

"As for not paying for illegitimate children... many (especially religious people) do try to help"
Random people helping on occasion is not enough. If the courts illegalized abortion again, it would only make sense to force a tax on the country to help PAY for those unwanted kids... and that would never happen. I guarantee you that the people in this thread would not be willing to pay higher taxes(republicans seem to think that they should keep lowering taxes) associated with helping those unwanted kids... so I put forward this hypocrisy for the people here to think about...

Would I be all for higher taxes to pay for these kids? Sure.. personally I don't care if I am taxed 2% more etc...

"But again... about paying in general. What I want is for people to be responsible for their own actions. That means that if they are going to have sex, then they better make sure they DON'T get pregnant. It means if they DO get pregnant, that they take the responsibility that goes with it. "

You just don't get it... most abortions are by TEENAGERS... they make mistakes... Teenagers are not held responsible to the utmost under the law... so it makes little sense to hold them responsible when they make a mistake and get pregnant... You are being idealistic.. Idealism is not to be mistaken from reality...

On top of that, there are accidents, and there are no 100% effective birth controls...


The main issue of this election should NOT be abortion of all things! Look at all that this administration has done wrong... A war with 8000 wounded and over 1000 dead in Iraq(and he campaigned on WMD that didn't exist.. because he cherry picked his data despite all reports)... where the insurgents have GROWN and we have steadily lost more and more lives each month.. we bear 90% of all casualties in the "coalition"(not counting Iraqis themselves)... Bush says a "higher father" told him to go into Iraq instead of facing up to the facts that the war is not going well.. We went from a nice surplus to a TREMENDOUS deficit... we have gained only 1 million jobs back in a year.. and Bush's solution to those ALREADY out of a job is that he is increasing education in this country... so pretty much if you have a master's degree.. in Bush's plan to get a new job they should go back to high school! Bush has scaled back most environmental protections.. he is stampeding over our 1st amendment rights by using the Secret Service to curtail ALL dissent at his rallies and any dissent NEAR the rallies... On top of all this.. Bush is UNWILLING to amit even ONE mistake in his administration! Halliburton got a huge NO BID contract in Iraq... and people are friggin saying to vote for Bush because they are anti-abortion! Yeah, let's ignore every mistake this administration has made all because of a personal belief of the president...

 

[Netopia]

You just don't get it... most abortions are by TEENAGERS... they make mistakes... Teenagers are not held responsible to the utmost under the law... so it makes little sense to hold them responsible when they make a mistake and get pregnant... You are being idealistic.. Idealism is not to be mistaken from reality...

Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.

I'm sure you think I'm nuts, but think of the things that would shink to tiny levels without premarital sex... teen pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases (AIDS!), abortions... But I'm going to guess that you would say that asking people to restrict sex to marriage is too big a price to pay to get rid of AIDS or the abortion issue. I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

 

[shadow9d9]

"Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.
"

That would work, but you cannot just change a society with the snap of your fingers.. those were the values of the time.. people no longer hold them... We cannot just force older values on people...You want an idealic situation.. but again, it is not reality. At least not 2004 reality : ).

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Netopia
I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

Yeah right, like Conservatives never have sex outside of the Marriage:roll:

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Netopia

You just don't get it... most abortions are by TEENAGERS... they make mistakes... Teenagers are not held responsible to the utmost under the law... so it makes little sense to hold them responsible when they make a mistake and get pregnant... You are being idealistic.. Idealism is not to be mistaken from reality...

Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.

I'm sure you think I'm nuts, but think of the things that would shink to tiny levels without premarital sex... teen pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases (AIDS!), abortions... But I'm going to guess that you would say that asking people to restrict sex to marriage is too big a price to pay to get rid of AIDS or the abortion issue. I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

Heh, you are a real fundamentalist whacko, arn't ya?

Ok, so i am divorced, i don't plan on getting married again, in your mind, i should never have sex again because of that, how old are you? 12?

Life happens and we deal with it, leave me alone and i will leave you along you fundamentalist sicko.

In my mind you are no better than a Muslim extremist and more dangerous to the society we live in today.

 

[Medellon]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
There are two additional problems with anti-abortionists... conservatives as a whole do NOT want to pay for the clothes/food/education/upbringing of this unborn child that they so wish to be brought into this world... so, they want them to live, but won't take care of it! The parent has the choice to abort the baby or not based on financial ability. The conservative wants to override this and then NOT pay for it!q]

You made your bed now sleep in it! Why should we have to support and care for a child because some dumbsh*ts can't control their hormones? That's a parent's job, not the governments...liberals!

 

[fjord]

Originally posted by: Medellon
I live in El Paso, Tx. which is 80% Hispanic and probably 80% Catholic though I am unsure about the second claim(it certainly is much more than 50%). Any of you who have lived a majority of your life in the Hispanic community know how religious they claim to be with the pictures of the Virgin Mary painted on walls or tattooed on backs, etc.; the shrines that they set up in their houses with candles and pictures of saints and the many religious medallions they carry.

Catholic doctrine is very strongly opposed to abortion and it is one of the greatest sins and tragedies of humanity. Of course it is a fact that most democrats are for abortion (you can spin it anyway you like, pro-choice, woman's right to choose, health of the mother, etc. but it all boils down to being pro-abortion) and most republicans against. My question is how can you claim to be so religious and pray everyday yet support and vote for a democratric candidate who supports abortion which goes against Catholic teachings? I ask my many Hispanic friends why they (the Hispanic community) as a whole overwhemingly vote democratic yet claim to be so religious and they have no answer. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

The answer is quite simple, and I don't doubt that the people you have asked--have no idea how to enunciate their reasoning.

Disclaimer: I haven't read any replies to this thread.

"Hispanics" as you call them (of Spanish descent)--probably for the most part are better termed Latin, or Mexican-Americans (of Mexican descent).

One of the defining characteristics of Mexicans--and by extension--Mexican-Americans, as a group is their capacity for tolerance.

That's why they happily exist even though their (conservative) government has oppressed them with horrible corruption for over a century, yet they endure and even thrive.

Etc., etc.

The answer is: a great capacity for tolerance.

 

[shadow9d9]

"You made your bed now sleep in it! Why should we have to support and care for a child because some dumbsh*ts can't control their hormones? That's a parent's job, not the governments...liberals! "

Umm, did you read my whole post? Teenagers are not held very responsible by the law until 18... why should they be forced to be totally responsible with pregnancy? WHat about those that are uneducated?

"Liberals" do not want anything... Conservatives want the government to force their personal moral standards on the entire country... Last I checked, abortion is legal... Liberals do not want anything... YOU do...

 

[Medellon]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
"Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.
"

That would work, but you cannot just change a society with the snap of your fingers.. those were the values of the time.. people no longer hold them... We cannot just force older values on people...You want an idealic situation.. but again, it is not reality. At least not 2004 reality : ).

So what values do you propose now? Why do these values seem old and passe? Because of liberals like yourself who cannot live by them. It's the classic sour grapes story.

 

[Medellon]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
"You made your bed now sleep in it! Why should we have to support and care for a child because some dumbsh*ts can't control their hormones? That's a parent's job, not the governments...liberals! "

Umm, did you read my whole post? Teenagers are not held very responsible by the law until 18... why should they be forced to be totally responsible with pregnancy? WHat about those that are uneducated?

"Liberals" do not want anything... Conservatives want the government to force their personal moral standards on the entire country... Last I checked, abortion is legal... Liberals do not want anything... YOU do...

Let me guess, you're for reparations too right?

 

[Medellon]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Would I be all for higher taxes to pay for these kids? Sure.. personally I don't care if I am taxed 2% more etc...

On top of that, there are accidents, and there are no 100% effective birth controls...

If Kerry wins and implements socialistic medicine you can count on a 20% tax increase

Abstinence is a 100% effective birth and STD control.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Would I be all for higher taxes to pay for these kids? Sure.. personally I don't care if I am taxed 2% more etc...

On top of that, there are accidents, and there are no 100% effective birth controls...

If Kerry wins and implements socialistic medicine you can count on a 20% tax increase

Abstinence is a 100% effective birth and STD control.

That is the stupidest thing i have EVER heard, a free market for the medicine with a cap costs the government LESS in every other country, why would it cost MORE in the US?

You have no idea what you are talking about, that is about ANYTHING you have said so far.

Guess if your wife gets raped she will have to live with it because she didn't "cross her legs" right.

What is it with the invasion of 12 year olds trying to discuss politics lately? A church thing all over the US?

 

[Netopia]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia
I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

Yeah right, like Conservatives never have sex outside of the Marriage:roll:

I did... I wasn't a conservative at the time... at least not like I am now anyway. Did LOTS of stuff once upon a time that I don't do any more. But you know, there's this saying... live and learn...

Joe

 

[Netopia]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Netopia

You just don't get it... most abortions are by TEENAGERS... they make mistakes... Teenagers are not held responsible to the utmost under the law... so it makes little sense to hold them responsible when they make a mistake and get pregnant... You are being idealistic.. Idealism is not to be mistaken from reality...

Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.

I'm sure you think I'm nuts, but think of the things that would shink to tiny levels without premarital sex... teen pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases (AIDS!), abortions... But I'm going to guess that you would say that asking people to restrict sex to marriage is too big a price to pay to get rid of AIDS or the abortion issue. I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

Heh, you are a real fundamentalist whacko, arn't ya?

Ok, so i am divorced, i don't plan on getting married again, in your mind, i should never have sex again because of that, how old are you? 12?

Life happens and we deal with it, leave me alone and i will leave you along you fundamentalist sicko.

In my mind you are no better than a Muslim extremist and more dangerous to the society we live in today.

Du bist ein...

Tell you what... I'm as much a "fundamentalist sicko" as you are a Hitler loving Third Reicher Jew killing world dominating Nazi wannabe. I mean as long as we're going generalize we should do it both ways, stimmpt? I believe the Bible, so I guess I'm a fundamentalist sicko and you're a Deutchlander so you're all those other things. How about you give us all a quick click of your boots and shout sieg heil and show us your best Heil Hitler.

Better yet, why don't you try to be constructive instead of just making trouble? Why not try to use what intellect you may have and enter into adult conversation instead of just flaming people like some adolescent who needs better parental supervision?

In regards to your query... you are not married but you are NOT under the constraints of the Bible or US law. You may engage in any practice you like in your own country. You know, you have enough problems over there to fix... why are you sticking your nose in America's business?

Joe

 

[EDoG2K]

Originally posted by: Netopia

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Netopia

You just don't get it... most abortions are by TEENAGERS... they make mistakes... Teenagers are not held responsible to the utmost under the law... so it makes little sense to hold them responsible when they make a mistake and get pregnant... You are being idealistic.. Idealism is not to be mistaken from reality...

Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.

I'm sure you think I'm nuts, but think of the things that would shink to tiny levels without premarital sex... teen pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases (AIDS!), abortions... But I'm going to guess that you would say that asking people to restrict sex to marriage is too big a price to pay to get rid of AIDS or the abortion issue. I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

Heh, you are a real fundamentalist whacko, arn't ya?

Ok, so i am divorced, i don't plan on getting married again, in your mind, i should never have sex again because of that, how old are you? 12?

Life happens and we deal with it, leave me alone and i will leave you along you fundamentalist sicko.

In my mind you are no better than a Muslim extremist and more dangerous to the society we live in today.

Du bist ein...

Tell you what... I'm as much a "fundamentalist sicko" as you are a Hitler loving Third Reicher Jew killing world dominating Nazi wannabe. I mean as long as we're going generalize we should do it both ways, stimmpt? I believe the Bible, so I guess I'm a fundamentalist sicko and you're a Deutchlander so you're all those other things. How about you give us all a quick click of your boots and shout sieg heil and show us your best Heil Hitler.

Better yet, why don't you try to be constructive instead of just making trouble? Why not try to use what intellect you may have and enter into adult conversation instead of just flaming people like some adolescent who needs better parental supervision?

In regards to your query... you are not married but you are NOT under the constraints of the Bible or US law. You may engage in any practice you like in your own country. You know, you have enough problems over there to fix... why are you sticking your nose in America's business?

Joe

Alright. I'll say it. You are a fundamentalist whack-job and you scare me too. I'm American, so this is my business, and you and your ilk are a frightening development, no doubt about that. How bout a quick age count for ya'll, how old are you, what state ya hail from, specifically Medallon, Cyclo, Neotopia, Alistar, etc..

23, NorCal baby!

PS: Medellon talking about a 20% increase in tax clearly proves you don't really have a grasp on the working of politics and have simply listened to some right wing rhetoric and bought it. You know what Kerry could do? He could mortgage the future of our country by spending lots of money on programs and not pay for any of it, like Bush did! wouldn't that be great? yeesh.

 

[Netopia]

41 Years Old
Father of 4
Army Vetran
Maryland....liberalville.

Joe

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Netopia

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Netopia

You just don't get it... most abortions are by TEENAGERS... they make mistakes... Teenagers are not held responsible to the utmost under the law... so it makes little sense to hold them responsible when they make a mistake and get pregnant... You are being idealistic.. Idealism is not to be mistaken from reality...

Please explain why there were fewer teen pregnancies PER CAPITA in the 40's and 50's than there are today? Because sex out of marriage was heavily frowned upon and there was incredible shame for those who created a child out of wedlock. The solution to this whole problem is to address the ROOT CAUSE, which is sex between two people outside of marriage... for the most part. I don't think that sex is dirty or shouldn't be spoken of, but TONS of problems are lessened if society would simply go back to expecting (and teaching at a family level) that sex outside marriage just won't be accepted.

I'm sure you think I'm nuts, but think of the things that would shink to tiny levels without premarital sex... teen pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases (AIDS!), abortions... But I'm going to guess that you would say that asking people to restrict sex to marriage is too big a price to pay to get rid of AIDS or the abortion issue. I think liberals should at least be honest about this issue though... that they want to be able to do what they want and then want to have escapes from the consequenses whenever possible.

Joe

Heh, you are a real fundamentalist whacko, arn't ya?

Ok, so i am divorced, i don't plan on getting married again, in your mind, i should never have sex again because of that, how old are you? 12?

Life happens and we deal with it, leave me alone and i will leave you along you fundamentalist sicko.

In my mind you are no better than a Muslim extremist and more dangerous to the society we live in today.

Du bist ein...

Tell you what... I'm as much a "fundamentalist sicko" as you are a Hitler loving Third Reicher Jew killing world dominating Nazi wannabe. I mean as long as we're going generalize we should do it both ways, stimmpt? I believe the Bible, so I guess I'm a fundamentalist sicko and you're a Deutchlander so you're all those other things. How about you give us all a quick click of your boots and shout sieg heil and show us your best Heil Hitler.

Better yet, why don't you try to be constructive instead of just making trouble? Why not try to use what intellect you may have and enter into adult conversation instead of just flaming people like some adolescent who needs better parental supervision?

In regards to your query... you are not married but you are NOT under the constraints of the Bible or US law. You may engage in any practice you like in your own country. You know, you have enough problems over there to fix... why are you sticking your nose in America's business?

Joe

That would be funny if i wasn't a Jew you whacked out piece of sh!t.

And considering that you do not KNOW where i AM right now, i suggest you SHUT YOUR FVCKING FACE!

 

[Netopia]

That would be funny if i wasn't a Jew you whacked out piece of sh!t.

And considering that you do not KNOW where i AM right now, i suggest you SHUT YOUR FVCKING FACE!

You made my point. I can no more judge and label you from what little I know about you than you can me. The difference is that I'm open enough to understand that, whereas you are so full of yourself that all you can do is name call.

Shalom,

Joe

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Netopia

That would be funny if i wasn't a Jew you whacked out piece of sh!t.

And considering that you do not KNOW where i AM right now, i suggest you SHUT YOUR FVCKING FACE!

You made my point. I can no more judge and label you from what little I know about you than you can me. The difference is that I'm open enough to understand that, whereas you are so full of yourself that all you can do is name call.

Shalom,

Joe

I made your point? I am Jewish and you ask me to do a nazi gesture, GET OVER YOURSELF YOU FVCKING CHRISTIAN ARROGANT HOLIER THAN THOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The difference is that i label you from what you write, you label me a Nazist who tried to destroy me and those like me for WHAT? Remember that the Nazis were ALL christians, they were ALL baptized and ALL confirmed in the name of Christ.

No, i do not believe you are being truthful, i think you KNEW that i am Jewish, i have said so in SO many threads, in threads where you have replied to me.

I think you wanted to bring up old wounds to hurt me, i think you ARE the Nazi, the one who look down on Jews, i think you ARE the racist, the one who look down on us who are not WASPS.

And most of all, i think you are dispicable, a leftover from the fascist regime that you long for so much.

You do know that you WILL burn in hell, don't you?

I am sorry if i am using derogatery terms but i could not find ONE that was near enough for what you did, you asked a Jew to do Nazi gestures.

 

[Netopia]

Klixxer PM'ed me that he is a Jew.

I'm sorry... not that you are a Jew, for that is an honorable thing, but that your forebearers were treated as they were by those who thought them less than human. I do the opposite and give all possible human life the benefit of human existance. Why then do you still find any fault?

Joe

 

[IEC]

Voting is for the lesser of two evils. Depends on your perspective and your worldview. Move along now, religious beliefs are personal and may involve the greatest good for the greatest number of people...

 

[Necrolezbeast]

I am seriously thinking that these forums are only good for technical answers and not good at all for anything political or religion oriented. This crap of people trying to say Catholisism and morality shouldn't be in the same sentence together is a bunch of crap. Anyone who is actually specifically saying crap about one religion or another should be banned, I don't care who it is, this crap should not be accepted on any forum. You can have your beliefs and I can have mine; I will never put someones beliefs down and tell them because they have certain beliefs are not moral. FYI I am Agnostic, support pro-choice but am very against abortion in any sort of non-rape situation. Abortion is being abused and used as a cotraceptive rather than a means of protecting underage pregnancy or rape, which I believe to be the only reasons to get an abortion.

 

[vskagentsmith]

My question is how can you claim to be so religious and pray everyday yet support and vote for a democratric candidate who supports abortion which goes against Catholic teachings?

Because people stereotype one-another. And it's easy when you talk about religion, which has so many ugly faces and hipocracies imbeded in their proclaimed truths. I've seen religious people do a lot of stupid things, and kudos to TranceNation for chiming that little tidbit in, I agree 110%.

And besides, politics is all about compromises, really really stupid compromises.

 

[vskagentsmith]

Originally posted by: TranceNation
probably the same way you can be a catholic priest and rape little boys...

This is the second time and this kind of bigotry clearly deserves a ban. This is the first time and hopefully the only I will ask for someone to be banned. Hopefully someone will listen.

I think it's funny myself, in a sort of sick ironic kind of way, and a valid point I might add. They did it to themselves, they've earned themselves that reputation, it's almost too good to have been made up.