How can you be a Catholic and vote Democrat?

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
John Kerry has never supported abortion and he is also a Catholic, you just seem to be confused. Also your staticstics seem off to me, at least back in '93 when I lived in El Paso, probably 80% Crhistains were Catholic but the majority of the people I knew though Austin High were not really involved with religion at all.

So in the debate when he practically said it was the womens choice says he's against it?

I'm for the right to vote, but I am against both Kerry or Bush getting elected. Respecting people's right to chose does not mean necessarily respecting their choices. Unless you can point out an instance where Kerry recommended abortion; saying he is for abortion is a flat out lie.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Todd33
Why are they against abortion? Something about killing maybe?

How can you be Catholic and support war? Didn't the pope come out against the war in Iraq? How can you support capitol punishment?

Ya, pick and choose what parts of the Bible you want to follow based on the political wind. They can justify anything that their religious leader want to sell them. The politicians using faith to control your voting is sad, too bad none of the sheep see it.

Ignorance is bliss. Thanks for demonstrating why you're such a happy man.

This entire thread is one big anti-Catholic circle jerk. Glad to see those who consider opposing gay marriage bigotry have no problem turning around and whipping up their own dose. Or is hating Catholics not bigotry for some undisclosed reason?

Where was gay marriage mentioned? WTF are you crying about? Nice of you to hit reply and avoid any of the discussion.

 

[nageov3t]

the Catholic church is pretty clear on its condemnation of the death penalty.

but religion and politics don't necessarily mix. I see myself as a Christian, but I don't want to elect a politician who is going to try and force my values on others.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Where was gay marriage mentioned? WTF are you crying about? Nice of you to hit reply and avoid any of the discussion.

If you'd take your hands out of the other anti-Catholic members' pants for two seconds maybe you could type something worthy of being dubbed a 'discussion.' You obviously know next to nothing about Catholicism, but that also obviously doesn't prevent you from spouting out bigoted statements against it. This is a new low for P&N.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: Medellon
I live in El Paso, Tx. which is 80% Hispanic and probably 80% Catholic though I am unsure about the second claim(it certainly is much more than 50%). Any of you who have lived a majority of your life in the Hispanic community know how religious they claim to be with the pictures of the Virgin Mary painted on walls or tattooed on backs, etc.; the shrines that they set up in their houses with candles and pictures of saints and the many religious medallions they carry.

Catholic doctrine is very strongly opposed to abortion and it is one of the greatest sins and tragedies of humanity. Of course it is a fact that most democrats are for abortion (you can spin it anyway you like, pro-choice, woman's right to choose, health of the mother, etc. but it all boils down to being pro-abortion) and most republicans against. My question is how can you claim to be so religious and pray everyday yet support and vote for a democratric candidate who supports abortion which goes against Catholic teachings? I ask my many Hispanic friends why they (the Hispanic community) as a whole overwhemingly vote democratic yet claim to be so religious and they have no answer. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

You show a basic lack of knowledge of both Catholicism and Christianity in general. A sis is a sin. In the eyes of god there is no difference between abortion and having impure thoughts. Using your logic Catholics would never be able to support any candidate because they're all sinners and support sin in some way. Luckily most Catholics aren't one issue voters and don't believe in legislating their own morality.

To a answer you question how can a Catholic vote for a pro-choice candidate, easy, we look at the totality of the candidate rather than that one position. And if we feel guilty afterwards we can just go confess.

Are you yourself a Catholic? If so I suggest you brush up on your Catholic teachings.

Not a Catholic myself, I think that what SViscusi wrote above is more of a Jewish philosophy. However it makes a lot of sense: if this is some supreme being that you worship, how can you know that any one word is more important than another? Stealing is just as bad as murder is just as bad as making idols...

 

[EDoG2K]

Medellon: What does the Catholic Church say about war and killing innocent iraqi civilians?

I understand abortion is a hot-button issue for all you religious types, but as I see it, this is more about women's rights (and here there are nearly exclusively MALES discussing the issue) and doctor-patient confidentiality.

Keep the govt. out of the doctor's office!! That should appeal to you republican nuts as well, considering the length you will go through to keep the government from taking away your assault rifles. yeesh.

so, Medellon, until you are a WOMAN and decide to follow the doctrine of Christ to the letter, stfu, b/c you are a sinner, just like everyone else. If what these women are doing is evil, let god judge them, not you!

What would Jesus do?

not to mention the fact that you had 4 years of your boy and he didn't change this (in your opinion, HUGE) issue, why give him 4 more to screw up everything else. Do you even follow any other issue?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Todd33
Where was gay marriage mentioned? WTF are you crying about? Nice of you to hit reply and avoid any of the discussion.

If you'd take your hands out of the other anti-Catholic members' pants for two seconds maybe you could type something worthy of being dubbed a 'discussion.' You obviously know next to nothing about Catholicism, but that also obviously doesn't prevent you from spouting out bigoted statements against it. This is a new low for P&N.

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

 

[jjzelinski]

Don't make the man think, if he questions his "faith" he might go to hell with you.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Todd33
Where was gay marriage mentioned? WTF are you crying about? Nice of you to hit reply and avoid any of the discussion.

If you'd take your hands out of the other anti-Catholic members' pants for two seconds maybe you could type something worthy of being dubbed a 'discussion.' You obviously know next to nothing about Catholicism, but that also obviously doesn't prevent you from spouting out bigoted statements against it. This is a new low for P&N.

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'll be sure to say an extra prayer for you tonight.

 

[GreenGhost]

Much harder for me to grasp is "How can you be dirty poor and vote Republican?"

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: GreenGhost
Much harder for me to grasp is "How can you be dirty poor and vote Republican?"

lol, aggressive and impressionable?

 

[Medellon]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Medellon
Well maybe the reincarnation bit is a tad off but I think the question is valid.

Well, here's my answer:

I'm a 'Christian' and I believe that when we die, we are judged by both our deeds and the nature of our hearts. Those who are worthy, pass into heaven, the others don't.

I agree but you make no mention of believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Todd33

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

If I may, I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy exhibited by you and some others whereby you immediately cry foul and throw around "bigot" and "homophobe" labels when anyone opposed issues such a gay marriage, but have no problems raking religion and those who practise it over the coals with diatribe and name calling.

That's what I got from it, anyway.

 

[dahunan]

We probably shouldn't even allow Democrats to vote.. they are horrible sinners

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Medellon
Well maybe the reincarnation bit is a tad off but I think the question is valid.

Well, here's my answer:

I'm a 'Christian' and I believe that when we die, we are judged by both our deeds and the nature of our hearts. Those who are worthy, pass into heaven, the others don't.

I agree but you make no mention of believing in Jesus Christ.

Dude, he says he is a CHRISTIAN.

what kind of catholic are you anyway? still in CCD?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Medellon
Well maybe the reincarnation bit is a tad off but I think the question is valid.

Well, here's my answer:

I'm a 'Christian' and I believe that when we die, we are judged by both our deeds and the nature of our hearts. Those who are worthy, pass into heaven, the others don't.

I agree but you make no mention of believing in Jesus Christ.

'nature of our hearts' = having Jesus in us, but in a more philosophical sense. I refuse to believe that some poor sap who is fundamentally good and Godly, but has never had the fortune of hearing the gospel, will suffer eternal damnation solely because the name "Jesus" has never reached his ears.

 

[EDoG2K]

Medellon: I take it you believe that if you don't believe in Jesus Christ, you are going to hell?

sooo.. all Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc... + everyone who votes for Kerry is going to hell?

I'll see you when i get there, punk.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Todd33

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

If I may, I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy exhibited by you and some others whereby you immediately cry foul and throw around "bigot" and "homophobe" labels when anyone opposed issues such a gay marriage, but have no problems raking religion and those who practise it over the coals with diatribe and name calling.

That's what I got from it, anyway.

Thanks, I was having a hard time understanding that too.

I don't see it like being bigoted or homophobic, bashing Catholicism is kind of like "tough love"

at least as far as I am concerned, can't speak for others tho...

 

[Medellon]

No, but why are you worried about going to hell since you don't believe in it anyway!?

 

[Medellon]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Medellon
Well maybe the reincarnation bit is a tad off but I think the question is valid.

Well, here's my answer:

I'm a 'Christian' and I believe that when we die, we are judged by both our deeds and the nature of our hearts. Those who are worthy, pass into heaven, the others don't.

I agree but you make no mention of believing in Jesus Christ.

'nature of our hearts' = having Jesus in us, but in a more philosophical sense. I refuse to believe that some poor sap who is fundamentally good and Godly, but has never had the fortune of hearing the gospel, will suffer eternal damnation solely because the name "Jesus" has never reached his ears.

I do struggle with that at times also.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Todd33

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

If I may, I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy exhibited by you and some others whereby you immediately cry foul and throw around "bigot" and "homophobe" labels when anyone opposed issues such a gay marriage, but have no problems raking religion and those who practise it over the coals with diatribe and name calling.

That's what I got from it, anyway.

Finally someone that can express themselves!

I still don't see it, I never called anyone a bigot. I do call evangelical Christians homophobes, but I mean it literally. They are scared of this boggie man they have zero contact with, homosexuals. They hate out of fear and out of constant preaching that demonizes a group based scripture that does more harm than good.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Todd33

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

If I may, I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy exhibited by you and some others whereby you immediately cry foul and throw around "bigot" and "homophobe" labels when anyone opposed issues such a gay marriage, but have no problems raking religion and those who practise it over the coals with diatribe and name calling.

That's what I got from it, anyway.

It's no different than Liberals denouncing Conservatives or Conservatives doing the same to Liberals.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Finally someone that can express themselves!

I still don't see it, I never called anyone a bigot. I do call evangelical Christians homophobes, but I mean it literally. They are scared of this boggie man they have zero contact with, homosexuals. They hate out of fear and out of constant preaching that demonizes a group based scripture that does more harm than good.

*shrug* This isn't my fight.

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: Medellon
I live in El Paso, Tx. which is 80% Hispanic and probably 80% Catholic though I am unsure about the second claim(it certainly is much more than 50%). Any of you who have lived a majority of your life in the Hispanic community know how religious they claim to be with the pictures of the Virgin Mary painted on walls or tattooed on backs, etc.; the shrines that they set up in their houses with candles and pictures of saints and the many religious medallions they carry.

Catholic doctrine is very strongly opposed to abortion and it is one of the greatest sins and tragedies of humanity. Of course it is a fact that most democrats are for abortion (you can spin it anyway you like, pro-choice, woman's right to choose, health of the mother, etc. but it all boils down to being pro-abortion) and most republicans against. My question is how can you claim to be so religious and pray everyday yet support and vote for a democratric candidate who supports abortion which goes against Catholic teachings? I ask my many Hispanic friends why they (the Hispanic community) as a whole overwhemingly vote democratic yet claim to be so religious and they have no answer. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Nice argument. Too bad you are not a Muslin because then you could to Iran and feel right at home living in a theocratic state. Unfortunately in America the constitutions separates the church and state.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Todd33

I still have no clue what you are babbling about. I guess you are touchy and I pointed out your hypocritical world. Religion and reality don't mix, I think the fumes are making you dizzy.

If I may, I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy exhibited by you and some others whereby you immediately cry foul and throw around "bigot" and "homophobe" labels when anyone opposed issues such a gay marriage, but have no problems raking religion and those who practise it over the coals with diatribe and name calling.

That's what I got from it, anyway.

It's no different than Liberals denouncing Conservatives or Conservatives doing the same to Liberals.

Or the young denouncing the old farts. *shakes fist at you*