How come I don't always get true HD when watching Sports?

[BrokenVisage]

I hate this! And it happens a lot too, is it a matter of distance from the source or something?

 

[mwmorph]

fox boradcasts in 480p(EDTV) and abc or cbs, one or the other broadcast in 720p and 1080i(i ythink cbs is 1080i and abc is 720p). ESPN is edtv only i think unless you got espnHD.

 

[JAG87]

what do you mean true HD?

explain, do you loose resolution or something??

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
fox boradcasts in 480p(EDTV) and abc or cbs, one or the other broadcast in 720p and 1080i(i ythink cbs is 1080i and abc is 720p). ESPN is edtv only i think unless you got espnHD.

Not exactly...Fox does 720p HD, as does ABC, and NBC/CBS are 1080i. Of course, they actually have to be broadcasting the specific in HD too...sometimes they do games in HD, for some games they just broadcast their analog feed and upconvert it and place it in a 16:9 frame...you'll have to look at the listings to determine which specific games are in HD and which aren't.

 

[HomeyFoos]

Ya, in order to get an HD signal to your TV, the event has to be filmed in HD. So, even if you have HDTV and an HD receiver, and you are watching 'HD Programming', not everything will show up in HD. You will sometimes get those black bars on the side. In the upcoming years, we all hope they will standardize and there will certainly be more content available.




HomeyFoos

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
fox boradcasts in 480p(EDTV) and abc or cbs, one or the other broadcast in 720p and 1080i(i ythink cbs is 1080i and abc is 720p). ESPN is edtv only i think unless you got espnHD.

FOX comes in 720p, as does ABC. CBS and pretty much everyone elese use 1080i for HDTV. No one brodcasts at 480p, other than HDTV all that is brodcast is standard SDTV 480i.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: HomeyFoos
Ya, in order to get an HD signal to your TV, the event has to be filmed in HD. So, even if you have HDTV and an HD receiver, and you are watching 'HD Programming', not everything will show up in HD. You will sometimes get those black bars on the side. In the upcoming years, we all hope they will standardize and there will certainly be more content available.




HomeyFoos

Yes this is what I'm talking about. So it's a standardization issue then? So how come a channel like INHD can have all their content in true HD? I mean lots of stuff being filmed in HD in another teams market still gives me black bars where I am. What is the criteria for getting the HD signal in this case? Do you need to have a certain cable provider or something?

 

[HomeyFoos]

Well, when I said standardize, I meant, they will all start filming HD content with HD cameras. That is really the issue. If it's a programming retailer (i.e. someone who is strictly providing HD content to subscribers but is not a major network or cable network) then they have made sure that all content hitting your box will be in 720p or 1080i. Those are the 2 HD standards currently.

However, the filming of live events (such as sporting events, concerts, political events, etc) is just not done in HD for all content as of yet. So, if it's a movie or a show, and it says HD, USUALLY, you won't see those bars. But if it's a live deal, there is a chance they will be there because the originating signal is not native HD.



HomeyFoos

 

[L00PY]

The problem is that there aren't that many HD trucks out there. For that reason, when networks don't have enough trucks to do all the games that weekend, they only produce HD for nationally broadcast, high profile games. HD cameras, gear, and post production costs are more expensive than SD too. That's why there are only a handful of local news are in HD. And why there are stations that have resisted upgrading to HD broadcasts for network programming.

Oh yeah, black bars doesn't mean that it's not in HD. There is 4:3 HD content out there. Lack of black bards doesn't mean that it's in HD. There is 16:9 SD content out there too.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: L00PY
The problem is that there aren't that many HD trucks out there. For that reason, when networks don't have enough trucks to do all the games that weekend, they only produce HD for nationally broadcast, high profile games. HD cameras, gear, and post production costs are more expensive than SD too. That's why there are only a handful of local news are in HD. And why there are stations that have resisted upgrading to HD broadcasts for network programming.

Oh yeah, black bars doesn't mean that it's not in HD. There is 4:3 HD content out there. Lack of black bards doesn't mean that it's in HD. There is 16:9 SD content out there too.

Well... Black bars are technically not HD since HD techinically is 1280X720 or 1980X1080 (progressive for the first, interlaced or progressive for the latter). So while you might get a 4:3 broadcast at HD resolutions, it's technically not true "HD" since it's not widescreen.

 

[Sonikku]

Maybe they came up short on banwidth for the month.

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Well... Black bars are technically not HD since HD techinically is 1280X720 or 1980X1080 (progressive for the first, interlaced or progressive for the latter). So while you might get a 4:3 broadcast at HD resolutions, it's technically not true "HD" since it's not widescreen.

You're confusing three things -- display aspect ratio, original aspect ratio and broadcast specifications. HD broadcasts can be in different combination of the last two. If the aspect ratio and broadcast specification match, there will be no black bars if your display matches (this is the case for both SD and HD). If they don't, you'll get black bars.

Of course, if you stretch or crop the image, you can eliminate black bars, but we'll stick to the original aspect ratio. So a 2.35 film will always show black bars in OAR, regardless of whether iit's SD or HD. Likewise, content filmed with a 4:3 AR with a HD transfer will always display black pillarboxing when shown in OAR on a widescreen display.

IIRC, The Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Bambi, Pinocchio, Frosty the Snowman, and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer have all been broadcast in HD with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: L00PY

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Well... Black bars are technically not HD since HD techinically is 1280X720 or 1980X1080 (progressive for the first, interlaced or progressive for the latter). So while you might get a 4:3 broadcast at HD resolutions, it's technically not true "HD" since it's not widescreen.

You're confusing three things -- display aspect ratio, original aspect ratio and broadcast resolution. HD broadcasts can be in different combination of the last two. If the original aspect ratio and broadcast resolution match, there will be no black bars if your display matches (this is the case for both SD and HD). If they don't you'll get black bars.

Of course, if you stretch or crop the image, you can eliminate black bars, but we'll stick to the original aspect ratio. So a 2.35 film will always show black bars in OAR, regardless of whether iit's SD or HD. Likewise, content filmed with a 4:3 AR with a HD transfer will always display black pillarboxing when show in OAR on a widescreen display.

IIRC, The Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Bambi, Frosty the Snowman, and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer have all been broadcast in HD with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

Not true. HDTV, as defined by ATSC, must have a widescreen resolution.

high definition television (HDTV) ? High definition television has a resolution of
approximately twice that of conventional television in both the horizontal (H) and vertical
(V) dimensions and a picture aspect ratio (H × V) of 16:9. ITU-R Recommendation 1125
further defines ?HDTV quality? as the delivery of a television picture which is subjectively
identical with the interlaced HDTV studio standard.

www.atsc.com

If it isn't widescreen, it isn't true HD.

 

[L00PY]

That's for a television set, not television programming. True HD programming is in resolution of the transfer from source to broadcast. Do you mean to say there will never be an HD broadcast of The Wizard of Oz because when they took the original 35mm and telecined to HD format, they used the original 4:3 OAR? That you'd have to crop or stretch the Wizard of Oz to get a HD version of it?

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: L00PY
That's for a television set, not television programming. True HD programming is in resolution of the transfer from source to broadcast. Do you mean to say there will never be an HD broadcast of The Wizard of Oz because when they took the original 35mm and telecined to HD format, they used the original 4:3 OAR? That you'd have to crop or stretch the Wizard of Oz to get a HD version of it?

The HDTV standard is a general set of rules that apply both to the signal and the display device. For a signal to be HD, it must be digital, and the content must be in a 16:9 widescreen resolution. For a monitor to be HD ready, it must be able to accept and display this signal.

There will never be true HD versions of content that has already been filmed in SD. Sure, you can crop/stretch and interpolate upwards, but really that's just a way of faking it. Actually, this is often done even when a broadcast is supposedly in HD. When they're filming a football game for example, sometimes all the network's cameras aren't capable of recording HD video. In this case, they must do what you said, crop/stretch and interpolate.

 

[L00PY]

Again, the Wizard of Oz was filmed on 35mm. 35mm has the potential for 10 times the resolution of HD. Even 16mm can be considered adequate for a HD transfer. The Wizard of OZ HD transfer is most definately HD, obvious to anyone not blinded by aspect ratios. Insisting on a widescreen aspect ratio for HD is like claiming Pan and Scan DVDs are superior for 4:3 TVs.

 

[daniel1113]

HD must be broadcast as a widescreen (16x9) feed, but that doesn't mean you can't have a 4x3 source centered on the screen with random crap (or plain ol' black bars) in the wings.

 

[SynthDude2001]

I agree with L00PY here...just because a particular source material (old films, usually) wasn't shot in 16:9 all those years ago...doesn't mean that you have to crop it to get a 16:9 aspect ratio for it to be "true HD". Same goes for movies that are wider than 16:9. I watched Minority Report on ABC in 720p last year in its original aspect ratio (forget what exactly what it was, but it was a lot wider than 16:9 so there were black bars on the top and bottom)....was that not true HD? Same goes for a source narrower than 16:9...as long as it has enough resolution and isn't just an upconversion from a 480i signal, that is (which a film transfer would).

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
HD must be broadcast as a widescreen (16x9) feed, but that doesn't mean you can't have a 4x3 source centered on the screen with random crap (or plain ol' black bars) in the wings.

:thumbsup:

 

[kylebisme]

16:9 aspect ratio is required for HD, that is just the way the standards are. When they show , The Wizard of Oz like they did recently on TNT-HD, they add black bars pillerboxing the image to the film's native 4:3 aspect ratio but the signal is still quite certianly at 16:9 as is required of all HD signals.

 

[SergeC]

To go back to the original question: much programming comes through local affiliates of major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS). If the local affiliate has no provision for broadcasting in HD, it doesn't matter what the original content is filmed in.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: SergeC
To go back to the original question: much programming comes through local affiliates of major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS). If the local affiliate has no provision for broadcasting in HD, it doesn't matter what the original content is filmed in.

Yeah but it's very random what games I get in HD sometimes. Like recently the Flyer's game wasn't on Comcast Sportsnet, it was an ABC nationally televised game. However even though it was played in Philly I still didn't get true HD!! I always get true HD during regular home games on CSN, but not even ABC would give the home town true HD? This is ridiculous, arn't we a few years into getting HD standardized by now?

 

[L00PY]

Like I said before side tracking into "black bars". there just aren't enough HD trucks out there yet. Sort of how like everyone and their sister has a local news chopper, but I can count on my fingers the number of them that are HD choppers. HD is more expensive, equipment is rarer, and newer. There are always people that resist change, both for financial reasons and because they're old fogeys.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: L00PY
Like I said before side tracking into "black bars". there just aren't enough HD trucks out there yet. Sort of how like everyone and their sister has a local news chopper, but I can count on my fingers the number of them that are HD choppers. HD is more expensive, equipment is rarer, and newer. There are always people that resist change, both for financial reasons and because they're old fogeys.

Yeah I hear you, I'm just greedy now and hate it when I got those black bars on my program when other people are getting ture HD goodness.