How come in Christianity....

[azazyel]

Also, on a side note, you should have told the priest that by condeming you and your family to hell he has broken the first commandment. He has put himself higher than god by taken god's laws into his own hands. By breaking the first commandment he has by nature broken them all.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: RishiS

Originally posted by: azazyel
You can follow the teachings of Jesus without ever hearing his name. Be humble unto others and what you find hateful do not do unto another. I don't understand how Christians can get so confused with believing in Jesus and in believing what Jesus taught. Personally I believe you can be a pretty good Christian by believing the latter. It's always harder to practice what you preach. I personally don't by the whole, "Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven" crap.

Hmm interesting. Why then is there a need to convert to Christianity? Your logic seems to imply that someone like Gandhi was a good "Christian" in that he was someone whose heart was pure.

That's my main issue with Christianity. The need to convert. Hinduism, on the other hand, is a way of life, and there isn't a conversion process. To me, needing to do a ceremony to become accepted as a Christian, is why religion gets that stigma of being like a cult.

There isn't a need to convert but there is a need to spread the idea that being good to each other is the way to go. I always think of God the Father...now if I was a dad what would my greatest wish for my children be? Well, mainly that they play nice with each other and help each other to grow to be responsible parents of their own. Whether your Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Hari Christina as long as you put other peoples need above your own you are doing Jesus' work.

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: azazyel
Also, on a side note, you should have told the priest that by condeming you and your family to hell he has broken the first commandment. He has put himself higher than god by taken god's laws into his own hands. By breaking the first commandment he has by nature broken them all.

No man is responsible for the outcome of any other man's life. To believe such a fallacy would be to deny free will.
While I don't agree with what the minister said, he is not responsible for any man's actions but his own.

 

[DougK62]

So if you've never been presented with Christianity before, after you die the Christian god will give you PROOF that he exists and then allow you to go to heaven if you accept him. But, if you denounce Christianity while you are alive, once you die you go straight to hell and don't get proof and a chance to change? That's not fair, eh? How can that be considered "right and just"?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: RishiS

Originally posted by: azazyel
You can follow the teachings of Jesus without ever hearing his name. Be humble unto others and what you find hateful do not do unto another. I don't understand how Christians can get so confused with believing in Jesus and in believing what Jesus taught. Personally I believe you can be a pretty good Christian by believing the latter. It's always harder to practice what you preach. I personally don't by the whole, "Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven" crap.

Hmm interesting. Why then is there a need to convert to Christianity? Your logic seems to imply that someone like Gandhi was a good "Christian" in that he was someone whose heart was pure.

That's my main issue with Christianity. The need to convert. Hinduism, on the other hand, is a way of life, and there isn't a conversion process. To me, needing to do a ceremony to become accepted as a Christian, is why religion gets that stigma of being like a cult.

There isn't a need to convert but there is a need to spread the idea that being good to each other is the way to go. I always think of God the Father...now if I was a dad what would my greatest wish for my children be? Well, mainly that they play nice with each other and help each other to grow to be responsible parents of their own. Whether your Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Hari Christina as long as you put other peoples need above your own you are doing Jesus' work.

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

You do realize that means nothing, right?

It is just words. Words designed to strike fear in the heart of the "nonbeliever".

It's up to the individual whether they live a happy, fulfilling life. Some do it through religion, some do not. Neither is wrong. But the idea that you're wrong if you're not of my faith is wrong.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

Come now, that isn't true. If you can turn off as many people from Christianity as possible by being an asshole there's something to be said about that too, right?

 

[Vic]

Most Christians have faith in God and believe that He has a plan for everyone, regardless of their faith or lack of. Remember that salvation is a gift from God, and is not acheived by faith OR works alone.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: DougK62
So if you've never been presented with Christianity before, after you die the Christian god will give you PROOF that he exists and then allow you to go to heaven if you accept him. But, if you denounce Christianity while you are alive, once you die you go straight to hell and don't get proof and a chance to change? That's not fair, eh? How can that be considered "right and just"?

One has to take free will into consideration when pondering this subject. G-d gave every man the ability to make his own choices, so if man rejects G-d until the day of his death when he is no more, why should G-d give this man salvation? If one has heard the Gospel and rejects it until their death, why should they be given another chance?
G-d gives you the choice to either accept salvation or to deny it. It really is as simple as that.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: DougK62
So if you've never been presented with Christianity before, after you die the Christian god will give you PROOF that he exists and then allow you to go to heaven if you accept him. But, if you denounce Christianity while you are alive, once you die you go straight to hell and don't get proof and a chance to change? That's not fair, eh? How can that be considered "right and just"?

It's not, and it obviously doesen't work like that.

If anything, everybody is given an equal chance once they die. We are supposed to be his children, his pupils.

Why would he condemn an eternal being to Hell because it simply has not learned yet?

God is note spiteful and malicious.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Vic
Most Christians have faith in God and believe that He has a plan for everyone, regardless of their faith or lack of. Remember that salvation is a gift from God, and is not acheived by faith OR works alone.

I like that perspective.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: DougK62
So if you've never been presented with Christianity before, after you die the Christian god will give you PROOF that he exists and then allow you to go to heaven if you accept him. But, if you denounce Christianity while you are alive, once you die you go straight to hell and don't get proof and a chance to change? That's not fair, eh? How can that be considered "right and just"?

One has to take free will into consideration when pondering this subject. G-d gave every man the ability to make his own choices, so if man rejects G-d until the day of his death when he is no more, why should G-d give this man salvation? If one has heard the Gospel and rejects it until their death, why should they be given another chance?
G-d gives you the choice to either accept salvation or to deny it. It really is as simple as that.

No. God grants or denies salvation according to His wisdom and glory, not yours (edit: or any other human's for that matter -- you are falling into the trap of Satan, where you would usurp the power and glory of God for your own purpose).

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: RishiS

Originally posted by: azazyel
You can follow the teachings of Jesus without ever hearing his name. Be humble unto others and what you find hateful do not do unto another. I don't understand how Christians can get so confused with believing in Jesus and in believing what Jesus taught. Personally I believe you can be a pretty good Christian by believing the latter. It's always harder to practice what you preach. I personally don't by the whole, "Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven" crap.

Hmm interesting. Why then is there a need to convert to Christianity? Your logic seems to imply that someone like Gandhi was a good "Christian" in that he was someone whose heart was pure.

That's my main issue with Christianity. The need to convert. Hinduism, on the other hand, is a way of life, and there isn't a conversion process. To me, needing to do a ceremony to become accepted as a Christian, is why religion gets that stigma of being like a cult.

There isn't a need to convert but there is a need to spread the idea that being good to each other is the way to go. I always think of God the Father...now if I was a dad what would my greatest wish for my children be? Well, mainly that they play nice with each other and help each other to grow to be responsible parents of their own. Whether your Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Hari Christina as long as you put other peoples need above your own you are doing Jesus' work.

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

You do realize that means nothing, right?

It is just words. Words designed to strike fear in the heart of the "nonbeliever".

It's up to the individual whether they live a happy, fulfilling life. Some do it through religion, some do not. Neither is wrong. But the idea that you're wrong if you're not of my faith is wrong.

You do realize I was simply stating my opinion, right? I'm speaking from the standpoint of a believer who has accepted the salvation of Yeshua. They're not "just words" any more than your opinion is "just words".

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Eli
God is note spiteful and malicious.

Genesis 7:4

What did the innocent animals ever do?

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

Come now, that isn't true. If you can turn off as many people from Christianity as possible by being an asshole there's something to be said about that too, right?

I don't make your choices for you, Skoorb. If you try to blame your lack of faith on the actions and words of others then you have serious responsibility issues which need to be addressed. "You" being a generic term for anyone who blames the results of the choices they make on anyone other than themselves.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: DougK62
So if you've never been presented with Christianity before, after you die the Christian god will give you PROOF that he exists and then allow you to go to heaven if you accept him. But, if you denounce Christianity while you are alive, once you die you go straight to hell and don't get proof and a chance to change? That's not fair, eh? How can that be considered "right and just"?

One has to take free will into consideration when pondering this subject. G-d gave every man the ability to make his own choices, so if man rejects G-d until the day of his death when he is no more, why should G-d give this man salvation? If one has heard the Gospel and rejects it until their death, why should they be given another chance?
G-d gives you the choice to either accept salvation or to deny it. It really is as simple as that.

No. God grants or denies salvation according to His wisdom and glory, not yours (edit: or any other human's for that matter -- you are falling into the trap of Satan, where you would usurp the power and glory of God for your own purpose).

What the teh?
G-d doesn't FORCE salvation on anyone, as your words imply. Salvation is a gift, which one has to accept to receive. If one did not have to accept said gift, everyone would be saved.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: RishiS

Originally posted by: azazyel
You can follow the teachings of Jesus without ever hearing his name. Be humble unto others and what you find hateful do not do unto another. I don't understand how Christians can get so confused with believing in Jesus and in believing what Jesus taught. Personally I believe you can be a pretty good Christian by believing the latter. It's always harder to practice what you preach. I personally don't by the whole, "Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven" crap.

Hmm interesting. Why then is there a need to convert to Christianity? Your logic seems to imply that someone like Gandhi was a good "Christian" in that he was someone whose heart was pure.

That's my main issue with Christianity. The need to convert. Hinduism, on the other hand, is a way of life, and there isn't a conversion process. To me, needing to do a ceremony to become accepted as a Christian, is why religion gets that stigma of being like a cult.

There isn't a need to convert but there is a need to spread the idea that being good to each other is the way to go. I always think of God the Father...now if I was a dad what would my greatest wish for my children be? Well, mainly that they play nice with each other and help each other to grow to be responsible parents of their own. Whether your Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Hari Christina as long as you put other peoples need above your own you are doing Jesus' work.

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

You do realize that means nothing, right?

It is just words. Words designed to strike fear in the heart of the "nonbeliever".

It's up to the individual whether they live a happy, fulfilling life. Some do it through religion, some do not. Neither is wrong. But the idea that you're wrong if you're not of my faith is wrong.

You do realize I was simply stating my opinion, right? I'm speaking from the standpoint of a believer who has accepted the salvation of Yeshua. They're not "just words" any more than your opinion is "just words".

Yes, of course I understand that.

I'm not trying to "convert" you, I don't have a religion. I'm just trying to make you look at your own religion, because it has blinded far too many men to count.

The mind that stops learning, evolving, accepting and reasoning is dead. Things are not black and white.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: conjur
Because blind faith in one's religion leads to arrogance.

"It's my way or the highway [to hell]"

According to my Holyrolling Step mother I have been on a highway to hell since I moved out back in 1980


sysadmin

 

[Berkut]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
What the teh?
G-d doesn't FORCE salvation on anyone, as your words imply. Salvation is a gift, which one has to accept to receive. If one did not have to accept said gift, everyone would be saved.

If I take a gun and point it your head and demand your money, am I "forcing" you to give me money?

If God takes a lake of burning fire, tells me he will throw me into it and torture me for all eternity if I do not worship him, is he "forcing" me to accept salvation?

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: DougK62
So if you've never been presented with Christianity before, after you die the Christian god will give you PROOF that he exists and then allow you to go to heaven if you accept him. But, if you denounce Christianity while you are alive, once you die you go straight to hell and don't get proof and a chance to change? That's not fair, eh? How can that be considered "right and just"?

It's not, and it obviously doesen't work like that.

If anything, everybody is given an equal chance once they die. We are supposed to be his children, his pupils.

Why would he condemn an eternal being to Hell because it simply has not learned yet?

God is note spiteful and malicious.

That's a nice thought, but Christian views on this topic are all around the fence.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: Eli
God is note spiteful and malicious.

Genesis 7:4

What did the innocent animals ever do?

"For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."

I know you're joking, but what you're implying is a common mistake that people use when attacking religion.

First, the animals are independent of judgement -- exempt from salvation or damnation.

Second, what is death to God? From His perspective, it could be seen as a release from the burden of the toiling existence on earth. We are His creations - He giveth and He taketh away.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: RishiS

Originally posted by: azazyel
You can follow the teachings of Jesus without ever hearing his name. Be humble unto others and what you find hateful do not do unto another. I don't understand how Christians can get so confused with believing in Jesus and in believing what Jesus taught. Personally I believe you can be a pretty good Christian by believing the latter. It's always harder to practice what you preach. I personally don't by the whole, "Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven" crap.

Hmm interesting. Why then is there a need to convert to Christianity? Your logic seems to imply that someone like Gandhi was a good "Christian" in that he was someone whose heart was pure.

That's my main issue with Christianity. The need to convert. Hinduism, on the other hand, is a way of life, and there isn't a conversion process. To me, needing to do a ceremony to become accepted as a Christian, is why religion gets that stigma of being like a cult.

There isn't a need to convert but there is a need to spread the idea that being good to each other is the way to go. I always think of God the Father...now if I was a dad what would my greatest wish for my children be? Well, mainly that they play nice with each other and help each other to grow to be responsible parents of their own. Whether your Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Hari Christina as long as you put other peoples need above your own you are doing Jesus' work.

What happens in this life is unimportant. It matters not whether you are rich or poor, live in a big house or a cardboard box. All that matters is whether or not you accept the salvation G-d offers everyone through Christ.

You do realize that means nothing, right?

It is just words. Words designed to strike fear in the heart of the "nonbeliever".

It's up to the individual whether they live a happy, fulfilling life. Some do it through religion, some do not. Neither is wrong. But the idea that you're wrong if you're not of my faith is wrong.

You do realize I was simply stating my opinion, right? I'm speaking from the standpoint of a believer who has accepted the salvation of Yeshua. They're not "just words" any more than your opinion is "just words".

Yes, of course I understand that.

I'm not trying to "convert" you, I don't have a religion. I'm just trying to make you look at your own religion, because it has blinded far too many men to count.

The mind that stops learning, evolving, accepting and reasoning is dead. Things are not black and white.

It's a two-way street my friend.

 

[Vic]

Flyermax2k3, quit trolling. It's been pretty firmly established by now that you're a false Christian.

 

[LAUST]

Because if you don't worship him for creating you (sounds self centered to me, make things to bow down to you) then you burn forever.. but remember.. he LOVES YOU!!!!

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Berkut

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
What the teh?
G-d doesn't FORCE salvation on anyone, as your words imply. Salvation is a gift, which one has to accept to receive. If one did not have to accept said gift, everyone would be saved.

If I take a gun and point it your head and demand your money, am I "forcing" you to give me money?

If God takes a lake of burning fire, tells me he will throw me into it and torture me for all eternity if I do not worship him, is he "forcing" me to accept salvation?

If you need to view G-d's free gift of salvation in such a manner to justify your faith (or lack thereof) then so be it.

Your point isn't even valid.
G-d created this world without sin, and man turned his back on G-d and began to sin. G-d, out of pure love and forgiveness offered man a chance to redeem himself by giving man the Law.
Again, man was unable to live according to G-d's plan so He had to make a sin sacrifice to wash away all our sins (that being the death of Yeshua, of course).

To view G-d's actions as anything other than just and perfect is to deny G-d.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Vic
Flyermax2k3, quit trolling. It's been pretty firmly established by now that you're a false Christian.

Prove it. Prove that I am not a Christian. Look into my heart and judge me according to what is found there.
Only G-d knows what lies in any man's heart, not you, or I, or any other man on the face of this earth.