How come LCD's are still so expensive?

[jinu117]

Originally posted by: deathkoba
Yea but who the hell wants a big azz CRT on their desk when they can have a nice and thin elegant looking screen that takes up little desktop space? I personally think the $450 is nothing compared to the benefits of having more desktop realestate. Also I don't want my room looking like some ancient 80's computer room.

Err... wanna give it a shot with my 22" mitsubishi playing UT2004? Quite honestly, decent 20" LCD is north of $800 and can't be really good gaming one for me yet. (I do get annoyed a lot on fast action game and find things to blame... which I can't now )
When it hits $600 mark with unnoticeble ghosting... than I will. Till than, I am happy with my hefty 22" until it dies.

PS) Even the 12ms or 16ms ones out there still have ghosting I see. You may not but some of us are more sensitive in this area. (besides, this ms specs are only rise time... doesn't take account of it going from black->white->black... which they should list!)
PPS) I arrange my room/buy my furniture based on my computer... Size is usually not issue. I don't really lan or take my 2nd rig if I do. My primary rig probably weights total of 100+ lbs as is now to even carry around... (22" CRT, Prommy, etc)

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Matthias99
And FPS has nothing to do with the monitor you're using.

You didn't understand my post then. Suppose you play a first person game where text is quite important (Neverwinter Nights is the first example that comes to mind). Suppose the native resolution of your LCD is 1280 x 1024. Suppose your game is intensive or that you have a cheaper video card that cannot play the game well at 1280 x 1024. You then have a few choices:
[*]Turn the resolution down making the game horrible since the text is crap.
[*]Play with a horrible FPS since your video card cannot handle it.
[*]Turn off features that make the game look great so that you can barely scrape by at 1280 x 1024.

If you don't like my resolution numbers, change them, my point doesn't change. You give up quality or FPS. It is your choice. Thus the monitor can have a big impact on FPS.

I understand your point, but this is the same as saying "LCD monitors don't scale from their native resolution well." Certainly it's something to be aware of if you play games, especially with 1600x1200 native LCDs -- few systems will run newer games at that resolution with all the details turned up. I've also heard that the scaling on newer LCDs is much better than it used to be (but I have no personal experience with them yet).

I'm not questioning that for certain applications, CRTs have some big advantages over LCDs (hence why I have not replaced mine). But for a LOT of people (and almost all of the general computer-buying populace), LCDs are preferable to CRTs, even with the current price premiums. The drawbacks they have (limited resolutions, low refresh rates, less accurate color) just aren't that bad for most users, and their advantages often more than make up for them.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: deathkoba
I'm also talking about appearance and presentation when people come over. I don't want old ass looking CRTs on my desks. LCD's look cool and IN.

:roll:

I didn't know people got PC's for home decor. Regardless, mine's in a spare bedroom.

Yes, most geek don't know this. But yes, there is a thing called "style" and it does transfer over to PCs.

style for geeks . . .

only a fellow geek would notice your LCD.

If you want real style that everyone will notice when you invitem them over - get a plasma TV
(not some 19" LCD on a desk in a corner)
:roll:

edit

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

You can't be serious. "Only a geek would notice your LCD?" You're smoking crack, or you're just in complete denial. Yes, they may not notice it, if you never show them your PC. Style is not limited to just one place in the home you know. After they're done watching TV on the plasma TV, we can go back and play games on my "cool looking" PC. You can entertain your guests on your ghetto machine if you'd like.

I did get a good laugh at this though:

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

In my own mind he said, hahahaha.... That was great.

You're a geek, right?



:roll:

let me try a different approach: "Only another geek would appreciate your LCD."

Your "coolness" is so LOST on anyone else.

and i don't entertain my "guests" playin' with my PC

:roll:

 

[freeject]

you mean how i fit my keyboard just fine on my desk in front of my CRT and have 0 complaints while you need a LCD to get around?

They dont let us use our own furniture in our dorms.

Geeks appreciate CRTs. Obiously you people talking about color quality and response time prefer crts, while the yuppies are talking about how cool LCDs look when they truthfully arent as practical.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: jinu117

Originally posted by: deathkoba
Yea but who the hell wants a big azz CRT on their desk when they can have a nice and thin elegant looking screen that takes up little desktop space? I personally think the $450 is nothing compared to the benefits of having more desktop realestate. Also I don't want my room looking like some ancient 80's computer room.

Err... wanna give it a shot with my 22" mitsubishi playing UT2004? Quite honestly, decent 20" LCD is north of $800 and can't be really good gaming one for me yet. (I do get annoyed a lot on fast action game and find things to blame... which I can't now )
When it hits $600 mark with unnoticeble ghosting... than I will. Till than, I am happy with my hefty 22" until it dies.

PS) Even the 12ms or 16ms ones out there still have ghosting I see. You may not but some of us are more sensitive in this area. (besides, this ms specs are only rise time... doesn't take account of it going from black->white->black... which they should list!)
PPS) I arrange my room/buy my furniture based on my computer... Size is usually not issue. I don't really lan or take my 2nd rig if I do. My primary rig probably weights total of 100+ lbs as is now to even carry around... (22" CRT, Prommy, etc)

Sorry to rain on your parade man, but 12ms on the Sony is rise AND fall. And no, I didn't see the least amount of ghosting. I played UT2004 on a test machine at Fry's using the Sony LCD I mentioned above and it was AWESOME. Absolutely flawless.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: freeject

you mean how i fit my keyboard just fine on my desk in front of my CRT and have 0 complaints while you need a LCD to get around?

They dont let us use our own furniture in our dorms. .

FYI i ran DUAL 19in CRTs for 3 of my 4 years in college on their desks just fine, and had room to put a notebook on the desk and a text book to do work just fine

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: deathkoba
I'm also talking about appearance and presentation when people come over. I don't want old ass looking CRTs on my desks. LCD's look cool and IN.

:roll:

I didn't know people got PC's for home decor. Regardless, mine's in a spare bedroom.

Yes, most geek don't know this. But yes, there is a thing called "style" and it does transfer over to PCs.

style for geeks . . .

only a fellow geek would notice your LCD.

If you want real style that everyone will notice when you invitem them over - get a plasma TV
(not some 19" LCD on a desk in a corner)
:roll:

edit

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

You can't be serious. "Only a geek would notice your LCD?" You're smoking crack, or you're just in complete denial. Yes, they may not notice it, if you never show them your PC. Style is not limited to just one place in the home you know. After they're done watching TV on the plasma TV, we can go back and play games on my "cool looking" PC. You can entertain your guests on your ghetto machine if you'd like.

I did get a good laugh at this though:

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

In my own mind he said, hahahaha.... That was great.

You're a geek, right?



:roll:

let me try a different approach: "Only another geek would appreciate your LCD."

Your "coolness" is so LOST on anyone else.

and i don't entertain my "guests" playin' with my PC

:roll:

I'm glad you convinced yourself to keep your CRT. Have fun.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: deathkoba
I'm also talking about appearance and presentation when people come over. I don't want old ass looking CRTs on my desks. LCD's look cool and IN.

:roll:

I didn't know people got PC's for home decor. Regardless, mine's in a spare bedroom.

Yes, most geek don't know this. But yes, there is a thing called "style" and it does transfer over to PCs.

style for geeks . . .

only a fellow geek would notice your LCD.

If you want real style that everyone will notice when you invitem them over - get a plasma TV
(not some 19" LCD on a desk in a corner)
:roll:

edit

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

You can't be serious. "Only a geek would notice your LCD?" You're smoking crack, or you're just in complete denial. Yes, they may not notice it, if you never show them your PC. Style is not limited to just one place in the home you know. After they're done watching TV on the plasma TV, we can go back and play games on my "cool looking" PC. You can entertain your guests on your ghetto machine if you'd like.

I did get a good laugh at this though:

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

In my own mind he said, hahahaha.... That was great.

You're a geek, right?



:roll:

let me try a different approach: "Only another geek would appreciate your LCD."

Your "coolness" is so LOST on anyone else.

and i don't entertain my "guests" playin' with my PC

:roll:

I'm glad you convinced yourself to keep your CRT. Have fun.

i have already been convinced until lcd technology catchs up wirth crt . . . i really like my 19" crt for gaming - perfect for me with NO ghosting, real BLACK and variable resolutions . . .

"have fun" . . . i do and will . . . thanx . . . BIG party tonight! . . . and tomorrow night!
(the games we will play are not "virtual" or depend on pixels)

i am also glad you justified your over-expensive purchase of an LCD . . . enjoy your xtra geek lcd "coolness".

:roll:

 

[Namael]

When I upgraded my 19 inch CRT to a 17 inch LCD, I found that my eyes didn't hurt as much and the color was bright and vibrant on my lcd. Most people who see the lcd at my house want to get rid of their CRT because it looks so much better. Even for games I rarely notice ghosting and I play most FPS. The only problem with LCD in my opinion is the native resolution. It kind of sucks to get blotchiness cause you play at 1024x768 on a 1280x1024 native screen. At the same time though, if you can afford a good lcd, you can afford a good computer that can run games at high resolution. Try owning a LCD for 4 months and you will not be able to go back to CRT imo. When most people compare their nice CRT to a crappy LCD, they of course notice the CRT is better, but actually try comparing your good CRT to a good LCD, it will be like night and day. Most retail shops like Best Buy or Staples are usually showing models of LCDs which are considered low end. If you want a good lcd, you will most likely have to get it ordered just for you. To me, the only reason not to buy an LCD is because good ones are pricy.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: deathkoba
I'm also talking about appearance and presentation when people come over. I don't want old ass looking CRTs on my desks. LCD's look cool and IN.

:roll:

I didn't know people got PC's for home decor. Regardless, mine's in a spare bedroom.

Yes, most geek don't know this. But yes, there is a thing called "style" and it does transfer over to PCs.

style for geeks . . .

only a fellow geek would notice your LCD.

If you want real style that everyone will notice when you invitem them over - get a plasma TV
(not some 19" LCD on a desk in a corner)
:roll:

edit

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

You can't be serious. "Only a geek would notice your LCD?" You're smoking crack, or you're just in complete denial. Yes, they may not notice it, if you never show them your PC. Style is not limited to just one place in the home you know. After they're done watching TV on the plasma TV, we can go back and play games on my "cool looking" PC. You can entertain your guests on your ghetto machine if you'd like.

I did get a good laugh at this though:

face it - there is NO (universally accepted) cool factor in an LCD over a CRT except in your own mind

In my own mind he said, hahahaha.... That was great.

You're a geek, right?



:roll:

let me try a different approach: "Only another geek would appreciate your LCD."

Your "coolness" is so LOST on anyone else.

and i don't entertain my "guests" playin' with my PC

:roll:

I'm glad you convinced yourself to keep your CRT. Have fun.

i have already been convinced until lcd technology catchs up wirth crt . . . i really like my 19" crt for gaming - perfect for me with NO ghosting, real BLACK and variable resolutions . . .

"have fun" . . . i do and will . . . thanx . . . BIG party tonight! . . . and tomorrow night!
(the games we will play are not "virtual" or depend on pixels)

i am also glad you justified your over-expensive purchase of an LCD . . . enjoy your xtra geek lcd "coolness".

:roll:

Well I'm glad that you're glad for me. Enjoy your party tonight CRT stud.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
I'm not questioning that for certain applications, CRTs have some big advantages over LCDs (hence why I have not replaced mine). But for a LOT of people (and almost all of the general computer-buying populace), LCDs are preferable to CRTs, even with the current price premiums. The drawbacks they have (limited resolutions, low refresh rates, less accurate color) just aren't that bad for most users, and their advantages often more than make up for them.

We just happen to disagree. There will always be diehard CRT fans like me. LCD advantages are basically size and weight that really is minor for the vast majority of people. There is some power advantages which I highly doubt more than 1% use in their considerations. And then there is the "coolness" factor (probably the biggest reason LCDs are being bought). My in-laws just got a computer and they had to have an LCD. Their only reason why - coolness. I'll give you that, CRTs will never be cool.

But still, those reasons are quite minor and thus doesn't justify doubling the cost to me. To you those minor reasons do justify the cost. Just depends on how much money you have and how much looks matter to you. We will never be able to convice the other on the personal opinions as to the value.

As soon as an LCD has a distinct and important advantage, then I'll say they are worth it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: apoppin
. . .
i have already been convinced until lcd technology catchs up wirth crt . . . i really like my 19" crt for gaming - perfect for me with NO ghosting, real BLACK and variable resolutions . . .

"have fun" . . . i do and will . . . thanx . . . BIG party tonight! . . . and tomorrow night!
(the games we will play are not "virtual" or depend on pixels)

i am also glad you justified your over-expensive purchase of an LCD . . . enjoy your xtra geek lcd "coolness".

:roll:

Well I'm glad that you're glad for me. Enjoy your party tonight CRT stud.

thank-you

. . . hehe . . . he said, "CRT stud"



"lcd stud" doesn't sound right.
(although i am glad for you also)
:roll:

and time for my nap . . . did i mention the party?

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: Namael
When I upgraded my 19 inch CRT to a 17 inch LCD, I found that my eyes didn't hurt as much and the color was bright and vibrant on my lcd. Most people who see the lcd at my house want to get rid of their CRT because it looks so much better. Even for games I rarely notice ghosting and I play most FPS. The only problem with LCD in my opinion is the native resolution. It kind of sucks to get blotchiness cause you play at 1024x768 on a 1280x1024 native screen. At the same time though, if you can afford a good lcd, you can afford a good computer that can run games at high resolution. Try owning a LCD for 4 months and you will not be able to go back to CRT imo. When most people compare their nice CRT to a crappy LCD, they of course notice the CRT is better, but actually try comparing your good CRT to a good LCD, it will be like night and day. Most retail shops like Best Buy or Staples are usually showing models of LCDs which are considered low end. If you want a good lcd, you will most likely have to get it ordered just for you. To me, the only reason not to buy an LCD is because good ones are pricy.

so is dell FP1500 one of those crappiest of crappiest of LCDs? i am sure there has to be better LCDs out there (better be) but i thought those were considered ok LCDs and they are no match to my NF diamondtron. notice we might be loooking at different criteria; text looks good enough on my CRT and i cant tell the damn difference. when it comes to colors tho, i do notice how much nicer my CRT looks. anime on LCD = no fun

 

[zephyrprime]

LCD's are expensive becuase they're essentially humongeous microchips. LCD's have transisitors like chips do (albeit thin film ones not cmos) but a processor is only ~1 square centimeter but a LCD is hundreds of square cm.

 

[wetcat007]

Computer LCD's are actually pretty reasonable now, a 17 inch tv lcd is a different story though...

 

[ponyo]

I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about LCD colors and swear by CRT are usually the same ones buying cheap old refurbs or used CRT monitors which have dull washed out colors, brightness, and contrast.

 

[DrMindbender]

I think LCD's do need to get a little better to justify the cost. It seems like their are always tradeoffs in performance and features where you can't get everything you want for the best price. Also, the manufacturing methods have to be improved to the point where I don't have to be afraid to buy online because of dead pixels. If I saw a good one at a good price, I'd buy one in a real store where I could inspect the one I was getting. Don't get me wrong I go to a Fry's or CompUSA and drool over them like the rest of us slobs. But I do have reservations. It's like being the Jerry Seinfeld of computing.

 

[DrMindbender]

That's another thing. All this money to develop multichannel speakers for computers down the drain. how many apartment/dorm dwellers are going to mount them on the wall?

 

[thirdlegstump]

One of my biggest beef with CRT's other than it's size is the fact that the geometry is NEVER perfect. It drove me nuts since I had my first computer. LCD's are almost always perfect in geometry..or at least damn close that my eyes can't see the distortions.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Naustica
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about LCD colors and swear by CRT are usually the same ones buying cheap old refurbs or used CRT monitors which have dull washed out colors, brightness, and contrast.

really, we have statistics on this? or did you just make this "factoid" up? or is it personal "experience"

actually,
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about CRT geometry and swear by LCD are usually the same ones buying el cheapo hot deals or slow-ass LCD monitors which have ghosting, crappy "black", washout in bright light and inability to change the super-hi res for gfx intensive games.

:roll:

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Naustica
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about LCD colors and swear by CRT are usually the same ones buying cheap old refurbs or used CRT monitors which have dull washed out colors, brightness, and contrast.

really, we have statistics on this? or did you just make this "factoid" up? or is it personal "experience"

actually,
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about CRT geometry and swear by LCD are usually the same ones buying el cheapo hot deals or slow-ass LCD monitors which have ghosting, crappy "black", washout in bright light and inability to change the super-hi res for gfx intensive games.

:roll:

Are you one of these people I find amusing? :laugh:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Naustica
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about LCD colors and swear by CRT are usually the same ones buying cheap old refurbs or used CRT monitors which have dull washed out colors, brightness, and contrast.

really, we have statistics on this? or did you just make this "factoid" up? or is it personal "experience"

actually,
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about CRT geometry and swear by LCD are usually the same ones buying el cheapo hot deals or slow-ass LCD monitors which have ghosting, crappy "black", washout in bright light and inability to change the super-hi res for gfx intensive games.

:roll:

Are you one of these people I find amusing? :laugh:

if so, you are easily amused. :roll:

i find you more banal rather than amusing.

i'd love to stay and discuss advantages of CRT over LCD for gaming (not really) but i have a party to attend . . .

aloha.

 

[dionx]

computer setup with 3 LCDs

i originally used that desk for a 19"CRT. i couldnt dual CRT with that desk. probably couldnt even support the weight if it wanted to.

with LCDs, i can not only dual screen on that desk, but have room for that extra keyboard and all my docking items on the desk. and no way would i ever put a 3rd CRT on top of my scanner and tower like my 3rd LCD is now.

 

[0roo0roo]

massive demand in asia/europe(less space) and laptops competing for screens keeps prices high

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: Naustica
I find it pretty amusing that people who complain about LCD colors and swear by CRT are usually the same ones buying cheap old refurbs or used CRT monitors which have dull washed out colors, brightness, and contrast.

maybe i am one of those 'amusers' but i am quite selective : when i got the HP for my roomie, i made sure it wasnt like some big coorporation pull (read the HP refurb policy and you will see what I mean). my own 22'' was from a fellow anandtecher with very slight use. its only 2060 tube but as good as i seen in most displays and i am assuming 2070 based ones are only better.

its not like i am a diehard LCD hater and try to bash every chance I get. rather, I try to stay on open-minded side and see which one I like better and so far I am yet to find a LCD that gives me better picture than a good old trusty CRT. yes, they the LCDs have come a long way and now I really wouldnt mind getting a LCD if they were *cheaper* than an equivalent CRT at the same price I would have still gone for a CRT and you know so well how the pricing goes in real world. moreover, as someone else has mentioned, the fact LCD price is dropping rapidly and OLED coming soon to replace them is another reason I would be hesitant about making a huge investment - i have never and probably never will spend over $400 on any computer hardware. CRT pricing, on the other hand, pretty much hit the rock bottom and now is imo the best timing to snag some quality CRTs

One of my biggest beef with CRT's other than it's size is the fact that the geometry is NEVER perfect. It drove me nuts since I had my first computer. LCD's are almost always perfect in geometry..or at least damn close that my eyes can't see the distortions.

0.5mm dip on the top rigth corner, big whoop. i sure dont mind it quite as much as a dead pixel or two.. :roll: