how come no more tea party?

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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,631
126
Why is it those that propose to be against welfare always seem to be proponents for welfare for the rich?
Because giving $3000 to the needy through the earned income credit (only for the really poor who have a job and usually have kids) is blasphemy and letting the wealthy put away $53,000 tax free in a SEP (effectively saving them $13,000+ and possibly far more depending on the tax bracket) is creating jobs.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Why is it those that propose to be against welfare always seem to be proponents for welfare for the rich?

Why is it that those who make generalizations are always wrong?

I can't speak for Republicans as they seem to be OK with welfare for the rich, but libertarians are against welfare for anybody. So much for "always" huh?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Because giving $3000 to the needy through the earned income credit (only for the really poor who have a job and usually have kids) is blasphemy and letting the wealthy put away $53,000 tax free in a SEP (effectively saving them $13,000+ and possibly far more depending on the tax bracket) is creating jobs.

How is the heck is investing in a retirement plan akin to welfare?

BTW: It's merely tax deferred and they'll pay FICA on the amount (no tax deferral for FICA purposes).

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
The TEA Party is around. It's just that MSM doesn't talk about them anymore.

You might think the fighting in the Ukraine is over too, since it's no longer reported on here.

Fern
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
The TEA Party is around. It's just that MSM doesn't talk about them anymore.

You might think the fighting in the Ukraine is over too, since it's no longer reported on here.

Fern

So now the welfare label is determined by what you do with free money, not simply that you get free money?

interesting.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
I think the last remnants of them are holed up in a wildlife refuge.

Pretty much what I was going to say, but I guess you have.

They are still roving about here and there in established packs.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,631
126
How is the heck is investing in a retirement plan akin to welfare?

BTW: It's merely tax deferred and they'll pay FICA on the amount (no tax deferral for FICA purposes).
They complain about helping the poor but then do anything they possibly can to help the wealthy. I just gave one possible example. It also gives a typical scope to the size of the benefits available for reference. Welfare to the rich (usually in the form of tax savings) costs the government far more per person than welfare to the poor.

If being "merely tax deferred" made the savings meaningless, then they (the government or the wealthy) wouldn't bother with the whole program.
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
They complain about helping the poor but then do anything they possibly can to help the wealthy. I just gave one possible example. It also gives a typical scope to the size of the benefits available for reference. Welfare to the rich (usually in the form of tax savings) costs the government far more per person than welfare to the poor.

If being "merely tax deferred" made the savings meaningless, then they (the government or the wealthy) wouldn't bother with the whole program.

You seem to think everything earned by everyone belongs to the government, and anything it doesn't take from you is welfare.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
TWelfare to the rich (usually in the form of tax savings) costs the government far more per person than welfare to the poor.

No shit, the poor take in more from the government than they pay in taxes, while the rich bear the vast majority of the tax burden.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
They complain about helping the poor but then do anything they possibly can to help the wealthy. I just gave one possible example. It also gives a typical scope to the size of the benefits available for reference. Welfare to the rich (usually in the form of tax savings) costs the government far more per person than welfare to the poor.

If being "merely tax deferred" made the savings meaningless, then they (the government or the wealthy) wouldn't bother with the whole program.

So you're going to stick to your claim that qualified retirement plans are a subsidy to the rich?

As to your claim that "Welfare to the rich (usually in the form of tax savings) costs the government far more per person than welfare to the poor" please check the annual benefit of welfare to poor. Also, check how many people contribute to the SEP getting a $13k benefit versus how many are on welfare (only 3% of households make enough to reach the top allowable contribution).

And again, they don't keep the $13k it's just deferred (meaning they pay it back, unlike welfare).

In any case, the US govt considers lack of sufficient retirement benefits an acute problem. Accordingly, it has deemed qualified retirement plans to be good public policy. This is particularly so given the demise of Defined Benefit Plans. The US govt simply doesn't need or want more elderly people relying on it for subsistence upon their retirement. Additionally, most people only have a limited number of years where their earning potential is highest. I don't believe they arrived at that number in a flippant manner.

Fern
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
No shit, the poor take in more from the government than they pay in taxes, while the rich bear the vast majority of the tax burden.

And as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer their burden will only continue to increase. :'( It ain't easy being rich in America.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
No shit, the poor take in more from the government than they pay in taxes, while the rich bear the vast majority of the tax burden.

A wealthy person paying 30-40% federal and still taking home $300k-$1mil-xxxxmil is far, far far, far far far less burdened than an individual paying 15, 10, 0% and taking home $15-35k.


But you get that.

Papa John sure as shit depends on the city streets and interstates (et al federal and state infrastructure) transporting his glucose-shaving-emulsified-oil-meat-product from plant, to warehouse, to distributor, to Papa John, to franchise, to fatty.

So, he gets far far far far more out of his tax dollars (via the infrastructure that he pays for, that he depends on for his wealth) than does Tanisha with her 2 jobs, $40k take home, + whatever.

Yeah, the wealthy pay more as a population--of course they do and they pay some 70% less in total tax than they did 100 years ago. They pay far less than in any other first world developed country, and yet they are still improbably wealthy compared to others oh right, their money goes elsewhere anyway...so why complain?)

The burden of wealth: never a good argument from that angle.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Hard to rage against Obama after the unemployment rate drops below 5% and gas prices drop to half and the stock market is higher than ever...

what would the rally be about exactly lol

We hate Obama cuz...um...JUST CUZ!!

No it is hard to rage because morons think low wage service jobs are spectacular and the fed pumping trillions into the stock market won't have any ramifications along with thinking Obama has done something to make oil producing nations to keep increasing supply.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Trump just proved what the rest of us knew about the Tea Party all along. That if you just go full racist, you'll gain Tea Party support in droves. Did anyone ever really believe the Tea Party's reasoning was anything other than racist? Come on, no one is THAT gullible.
Trump is "full racist"? This is insane.

What is a group of guys lynching a black man in that case?
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
A wealthy person paying 30-40% federal and still taking home $300k-$1mil-xxxxmil is far, far far, far far far less burdened than an individual paying 15, 10, 0% and taking home $15-35k.

But you get that.

Papa John sure as shit depends on the city streets and interstates (et al federal and state infrastructure) transporting his glucose-shaving-emulsified-oil-meat-product from plant, to warehouse, to distributor, to Papa John, to franchise, to fatty.

So, he gets far far far far more out of his tax dollars (via the infrastructure that he pays for, that he depends on for his wealth) than does Tanisha with her 2 jobs, $40k take home, + whatever.

Yeah, the wealthy pay more as a population--of course they do and they pay some 70% less in total tax than they did 100 years ago. They pay far less than in any other first world developed country, and yet they are still improbably wealthy compared to others oh right, their money goes elsewhere anyway...so why complain?)

The burden of wealth: never a good argument from that angle.

First, I didn't argue that millionaires have it worse than the poor or anything like that. Re-read what dullard said. Following his logic through, the more you tax the wealthy, the greater the "welfare" they receive in subsequent tax cuts/benefits. That's just silly.

Second, what percent of the total federal budget is spent on maintaining the interstate system? Simply that wealthy businesses benefit more from the government than do the poor isn't an argument that they are unfairly advantaged. Tanisha, doing fairly well actually compared to others at $40k/yr, consumes social benefits simply to exist, and for her progeny to exist.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Trump just proved what the rest of us knew about the Tea Party all along. That if you just go full racist, you'll gain Tea Party support in droves. Did anyone ever really believe the Tea Party's reasoning was anything other than racist? Come on, no one is THAT gullible.

I always tell people to never underestimate the liberal propaganda machine.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Really sucks when you've been mid/upper middle class more or less most of your life while the upper class has been scarfing that shit away and moving the jobs and money overseas and eliminating the middle class over time.

The upper class have been sucking up gold parachutes for banking "failures" a long time now.

Nothing like reaping money for doing a shitty job stealing money, with no worry about retribution.

Must be nice living on a yacht laughing about things, while the proportional earning levels have spiraled through the roof and paying taxes at a less proportional rate than anyone else through legislative tricks.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
No shit, the poor take in more from the government than they pay in taxes, while the rich bear the vast majority of the tax burden.

Aww poor babies they have to pay more than they receive. I guess a solution could be give all their wealth away and live poor.
 
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