How did Metallica just suddenly loose their ability to make such amazing music?

[platinumike]

I'll admit their newer stuff is for the most part trash, but some of the songs are still decent. Im not a music major or anything, but does anyone know what led to their downfall? Songs like harvester of sorrow are just so amazingly crafted and enjoyable. The only theory I've ever heard was that once they stopped being such huge alcoholics they stopped making such good music. My theory is that since the genre has changed a bit, they have nothing to inspire them. I bet if you just took all the music and playing styles that were being used in their time and brought it all back today, you'd see Metallica put out another kick ass album.

 

[Goosemaster]

Something about condoning Napster injected syphilis into the uterus of their musical soul and out popped out a a wretched, mutilated creature cristened 'st. anger'

 

[HamburgerBoy]

By losing Cliff Burton.

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Something about condoming Napster injected syphilis into the uterous of their musical soul and out popped out a a wretched, mutilated creature cristened 'st. anger'

How does that explain AJFA, TBA, or (R)L?

 

[Reckoner]

They're pretty old now, and it didn't help that James blew out his vocal chords during the Black tour. Plus, when you make as much money as they have, you're going to "sell out." It's inevitable.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
By losing Cliff Burton.

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Something about condoming Napster injected syphilis into the uterous of their musical soul and out popped out a a wretched, mutilated creature cristened 'st. anger'

How does that explain AJFA, TBA, or (R)L?

no idea bub.

 

[Pacfanweb]

They got sober.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Plus, when you make as much money as they have, you're going to "sell out." It's inevitable.

Almost all bands sell out or change their sound to some degree. Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Judas Priest, and many other bands did it as well. However, their new material still manages to beat the hell out of St. Anger.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Plus, when you make as much money as they have, you're going to "sell out." It's inevitable.

Almost all bands sell out or change their sound to some degree. Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Judas Priest, and many other bands did it as well. However, their new material still manages to beat the hell out of St. Anger.

No shlt....St Anger is even worse than Van Halen 3 with Gary Cherone.

 

[Sphexi]

Suddenly?

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Sphexi
Suddenly?

 

[SmoochyTX]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Plus, when you make as much money as they have, you're going to "sell out." It's inevitable.

Almost all bands sell out or change their sound to some degree. Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Judas Priest, and many other bands did it as well. However, their new material still manages to beat the hell out of St. Anger.

No shlt....St Anger is even worse than Van Halen 3 with Gary Cherone.

QFT

 

[Reckoner]

Every band has a dud album as well. For all the good sh!t metallica put out over the years, they deserve a pass for anything they put out from now on.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Every band has a dud album as well. For all the good sh!t metallica put out over the years, they deserve a pass for anything they put out from now on.

Not all duds are equal. Load is about equal with Risk, Virtual XI, and Jugulator... but St. Anger? There's no comparison.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Every band has a dud album as well. For all the good sh!t metallica put out over the years, they deserve a pass for anything they put out from now on.

Not all duds are equal. Load is about equal with Risk, Virtual XI, and Jugulator... but St. Anger? There's no comparison.

Doesn't matter, Metallica is the greatest metal band of all time.

 

[Theguynextdoor]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
They got sober.

 

[blue1friday2]

 

[Aftermath]

My opinion: Most of the real soul of the band died with Cliff Burton. I think they had an energy together that was lost. I think that Jason was a different kind of soul, but in a sort of spiteful dislike of Jason filling in for Cliff, James never really got tuned in to Jason and the band lost cohesion.

Or to put it another way, James tried to leave Jason simply playing backup to his rhythm without giving him an ounce of credit, but Jason Lars and Kirk don't make "Metallica." Even all four of them don't make "Metallica" like it used to be, but it might've been a better one if they had worked together more closely.

I think that James got a little headstrong and started leading the band in different directions without Cliff there to be sort of a musical counterpart. I think the band has always been mostly all about James and Lars, but I think Cliff was able to bring that extra dash of originality and musical creativity to make them great.

But I also consider other contributions. They got older. The whole musical scene changes and grows. Bob Rock. Growing popularity with mainstream success.

There's not really one silver bullet. But all bands have a "prime" period. I don't see why everybody has to crap all over their newer stuff just because it's not as good as the old, or not what they like. Just applaud their older stuff and move on.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: blue1friday2

You raise a good point. Let me ponder that for a moment.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Doesn't matter, Metallica is the greatest metal band of all time.

Iron Maiden > Judas Priest > Joe Satriani > some other stuff > Metallica

They released the world's best album (RTL) and the world's best song (TCOK), but that doesn't make them the world's best band.

 

[bigdog1218]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Every band has a dud album as well. For all the good sh!t metallica put out over the years, they deserve a pass for anything they put out from now on.

Not all duds are equal. Load is about equal with Risk, Virtual XI, and Jugulator... but St. Anger? There's no comparison.

Doesn't matter, Metallica is the greatest metal band of all time.

Most popular does not equal best.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I wouldn't say that Cliff was the real soul of the band, but he was able to keep the band on an even keel and his sudden death definitely shattered the harmony in the band. James & Lars are headstrong and are the major motivating force behind Metallica. Always have been always will be. But, IMO, Cliff is someone that both James & Lars would STFU and listen to (Metallica sought out Cliff Burton, Cliff burton did not seek out Metallica). Cliff was also a freakishly gifted musician. All you have to do is listen to the progression of their music from Kill'em All to Puppets to hear his influence on Metallica's sound.


Lethal

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Every band has a dud album as well. For all the good sh!t metallica put out over the years, they deserve a pass for anything they put out from now on.

Not all duds are equal. Load is about equal with Risk, Virtual XI, and Jugulator... but St. Anger? There's no comparison.

Doesn't matter, Metallica is the greatest metal band of all time.

Black Sabbath just chuckled.

Metallica was a good band....but I wouldn't consider them the greatest metal band of all time.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Every band has a dud album as well. For all the good sh!t metallica put out over the years, they deserve a pass for anything they put out from now on.

Not all duds are equal. Load is about equal with Risk, Virtual XI, and Jugulator... but St. Anger? There's no comparison.

Doesn't matter, Metallica is the greatest metal band of all time.

Black Sabbath just chuckled.

Metallica was a good band....but I wouldn't consider them the greatest metal band of all time.

Black Sabbath was probably the most influential, but I still think Metallica has better songs.

 

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: Aftermath
My opinion: Most of the real soul of the band died with Cliff Burton. I think they had an energy together that was lost. I think that Jason was a different kind of soul, but in a sort of spiteful dislike of Jason filling in for Cliff, James never really got tuned in to Jason and the band lost cohesion.

Or to put it another way, James tried to leave Jason simply playing backup to his rhythm without giving him an ounce of credit, but Jason Lars and Kirk don't make "Metallica." Even all four of them don't make "Metallica" like it used to be, but it might've been a better one if they had worked together more closely.

I think that James got a little headstrong and started leading the band in different directions without Cliff there to be sort of a musical counterpart. I think the band has always been mostly all about James and Lars, but I think Cliff was able to bring that extra dash of originality and musical creativity to make them great.

But I also consider other contributions. They got older. The whole musical scene changes and grows. Bob Rock. Growing popularity with mainstream success.

There's not really one silver bullet. But all bands have a "prime" period. I don't see why everybody has to crap all over their newer stuff just because it's not as good as the old, or not what they like. Just applaud their older stuff and move on.

I think that covers it :thumbsup:

Cliff Burton was a major force within the band. He was somebody the other guys looked up to, instead of treating like sh!t like they did with Newsted. He also brought some music theory into what they were doing in the early years. To me they peaked with MOP, and the loss of Cliff wasn't immediately obvious because the followup album was good. It was when Bob Rock came on board that things started changing rapidly, but ultimately that was Metallica's decision. Decent groups get bored of trying to make the same album over and over again.

And the point about bands peaking is true. Almost every one of the "great" bands has a finite window, maybe 8 or 10 years if they're lucky, where they're truly on top of their game creatively.

 

[oCxTiTaN]

I wish they could put out another album like the Black Album...sure there are amazing songs on RTL, MoP, etc but I think that is the one album of their's that I can listen straight through without ever thinking "you know, this isn't one of my favorites" and skip to the next song. It is a great blend between the heavy (Holier than Thou) and the more mellow (The Unforgiven, Nothing Else Matters) with so many great songs falling between the two extremes. The God that Failed is probably my favorite only because the others (Sad But True, Enter Sandman, etc) were more mainstream Metallica and got the air-time.

I deeply love Metallica and even after their last few albums (Reload and Load did have a few good songs) I'll buy their next album.

I just wish they would return to their prime and forget this "Nu Metal" ****** like they are SOAD or something. Not to say I don't love and have every SOAD album, it's just that Metallica != SOAD and never should try to. Imagine SOAD trying to sound like Metallica...it'd be the same disaster.

Edit: I do think they have some potential to come out with some good songs because the two new songs on S&M (Minus Human and No Leaf Clover) kick total ass and that was only 7 years ago...