Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Beattie
When was the last time your heard of someone's life being saved by Norwegian drugs, or driving a French car, or buying Swedish anything. No, I don't think they are all that successful at all.
Well:
France builds nucler reactors for other countries.
Sweden: "Telecommunications, the automotive industry and the pharmaceutical industries are also of great importance"
Norway makes ships and oil rigs.
Not bad when you consider Norway has 4.8 million people and Sweden 9.2 million and France about the population of California and Texas combined.
None of those countries have 800+ military bases in 100+ countries. Not that I support that we do.
If you want to bash capitalism, find a country that practices it. It isn't the US, that's for sure. Not with a central bank controlling price. The problems with socialism are incentive and an inability to calculate price. Our system is only more capitalist because we have incentive, but we are tossing that away every day. And mainly because we continue to try to calculate price.
Originally posted by: Vic
Because they're not actually socialist?
you have a socialist leaning democracy, mixed up with authoritrian communism.Originally posted by: scott
Sweden,
well I hear there are more Swedes living outside Sweden than in country, because those who can do so flee the horrendous Swedish taxes.
Volvo has tanked.
Sweden's economy isn't an example of socialist success. I believe it's trending down.
I really love Sweden and travel there often on business. (A Swedish man was head of the US Government before George Washington.) Sweden has the highest population of exquisitely beautiful women on earth.
In another socialist state, N. Korea, the general population reportedly doesn't have enough food or other basic necessities like sanitation.
Do Cubans live all that well?
OP's other comments are very interesting. Good observations!
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
If Socialism works so good then why is the government of France slowly selling everything off??
And notice that all three of these countries have one thing in common:
They bring in a LOT of outside money via trade or tourism.
France gets 81 million tourists per year, that is more than their population. 6% of the countries income comes from tourism.
And check out this about their labor market
The French GDP per capita is similar the GDP per capita of other comparable European countries such as Germany and the United Kingdom,[29] and is 30% below the US level. GDP per capita is determined by (i) productivity per hour worked, which in France is the highest of the G8 countries in 2005, according to the OECD,[30] (ii) the number of hours worked, which is one the lowest of developed countries,[31] and (iii) the employment rate. France has one of the lowest 15?64 years employment rates of the OECD countries: in 2004, only 68.8% of the French population aged 15?64 years were in employment, compared to 80.0% in Japan, 78.9% in the UK, 77.2% in the US, and 71.0% in Germany
Norway
Export revenues from oil and gas have risen to 45% of total exports and constitute more than 20% of the GDP.
Sweden is not a socialist state, at least economically and should not be in this list. Its major industries are overwhelmingly in private control.
BTW Sweden and Norway combined have a smaller population than NYC.
unemployment in many european countries is high because epoeple choose not to work, which may or may not be a good thing. Also, rioting is a french tradition going back 250 years.Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah, France is a fvcking riot (literally). High unemployment, tiny places to live, where do I sign up?
Learn up, sonHardly meaningful to say Norway is doing well when its gov is making money hand over fist with oil, is it?
aren't you canadian? You are from a socialist country.Before P&N I thought it was a given that socialism was bad, like wanking in public is bad or touching a hot stove. P&N teaches me things I wish I didn't have to learn sometimes.Also, is this our weekly "Socialism is good" thread?
this is relevant to what?I read yesterday Ireland's unemployment is predicted to hit 15% in the near future and after iceland it's the biggest catastrophe in the wings for Europe, they levaraged themselves to a comical level and are now going to pay the price, and it will be severe.why wouldn't it matter? it has bearing on why the country is doing well economically today. if they use the money to grow faster than they have to pay it back at, then that's good for them.
I believe a contemporary example we should use is Chavez who's giving government control to industrities previously private and from what I understand these are doing a pretty bang up job of screwing things up.
Originally posted by: scott
miketheidiot
Would you please send me a PM?
Originally posted by: scott
Sweden,
well I hear there are more Swedes living outside Sweden than in country, because those who can do so flee the horrendous Swedish taxes.
Volvo has tanked.
Sweden's economy isn't an example of socialist success. I believe it's trending down.
Because for the most part as humans we are basically morons. But Ireland's issue is not socialism now but too much leverage.Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
How is it that when Ireland's economy was booming on cheap borrowed money and imported labor, it was the shining example of the economic power of low corporate taxes but now that the cheap loans have been called and the imported labor has been laid off, it's the exemplar of the dangers of socialist government?
The quantifiable way to determine government's size is by its slice of the economy and simply it's higher in Europe, including higher taxes. Case in point Somalia, the antithesis of a socialist state and pure capitalism. And a social one could be Cuba. Both crappy places to live, frankly I'd rather pick Cuba fwiw.While there is some more government intervention, Europe is just as capitalistic as the US
It's not socialist but rather has more socialist leanings than the US. The west as a whole is not socialist per se but countries dabble to varying degrees.aren't you canadian? You are from a socialist country.
elfenix's comment, plus I enjoy hearing myself type.this is relevant to what?
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Some of you guys really need to look up what the fuck socialism is. None of those countries are socialist.
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
How is it that when Ireland's economy was booming on cheap borrowed money and imported labor, it was the shining example of the economic power of low corporate taxes but now that the cheap loans have been called and the imported labor has been laid off, it's the exemplar of the dangers of socialist government?
Originally posted by: scott
Do Cubans live all that well?
Originally posted by: SkoorbHardly meaningful to say Norway is doing well when its gov is making money hand over fist with oil, is it?
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Damn skippy! There's never been anyone in government who was corrupt!
What exactly are you trying to say? Are you stating the claim that you can make the poor rich by making the rich poor?
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
You don't necessarily need to have a small or homogeneous population, rather you need to have a population of people with a rational philosophy--the rationality factor. I suspect that part of the reason why people in those homogeneous societies might not mind helping others as much is that they regard it as a good investment--they have confidence that the people they are helping won't squander their help.
Originally posted by: techs
EXACTLY!
Ireland has about the most "Reaganite" economic system in Europe. And yet when they crashed moronic, propagandized Americans immediately blamed it on their "socialism"
Another great example is Iceland. When Iceland had a complete meltdown of its economy, I actually had to prove in mulitple threads that Iceland had swallowed hook, line and sinker the Reagan economic policies, far, far, far, more than the US did. In fact Iceland was the place all the Reaganites went to put their full plan into action.
Yet, poster after poster blamed Icelands problems on their 'socialism'
The debt isn't necessarily bad, as long as they have something to show for it. Such as long-term infrastructure or a better quality of life (though if it's unsustainable, that's bad).
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
How is it that when Ireland's economy was booming on cheap borrowed money and imported labor, it was the shining example of the economic power of low corporate taxes but now that the cheap loans have been called and the imported labor has been laid off, it's the exemplar of the dangers of socialist government?
EXACTLY!
Ireland has about the most "Reaganite" economic system in Europe. And yet when they crashed moronic, propagandized Americans immediately blamed it on their "socialism"
Another great example is Iceland. When Iceland had a complete meltdown of its economy, I actually had to prove in mulitple threads that Iceland had swallowed hook, line and sinker the Reagan economic policies, far, far, far, more than the US did. In fact Iceland was the place all the Reaganites went to put their full plan into action.
Yet, poster after poster blamed Icelands problems on their 'socialism'
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
aren't you canadian? You are from a socialist country.
Wrong attribution; that quote was miketheidiot's. Skoorb's quoting makes it look like all those statements were mine, butOriginally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
aren't you canadian? You are from a socialist country.
I was thinking with America having a new Socialist President and all the bailouts, this stuff might die out a little
But na... always got to point fingers and be a hypocrite
was all that I actually posted.How is it that when Ireland's economy was booming on cheap borrowed money and imported labor, it was the shining example of the economic power of low corporate taxes but now that the cheap loans have been called and the imported labor has been laid off, it's the exemplar of the dangers of socialist government?
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Some of you guys really need to look up what the fuck socialism is. None of those countries are socialist.
Originally posted by: Svnla
How many people try to get in the US vs. other socialist countries on earth (combine)? ...just what I thought.... /thread
Originally posted by: Beattie
When was the last time your heard of someone's life being saved by Norwegian drugs, or driving a French car, or buying Swedish anything. No, I don't think they are all that successful at all.