How do you acquire your good overclocking CPU?

[Gillbot]

Nope, but nice try. The original allegation was that sending a chip back that didnt overclock well was RMA fraud.

Amazon (as you stated) will take almost anything back for any reason. They'll cut you off if you abuse it, but they'll still take it back.

Put another way: they dont specifically state that they WON'T accept a return for that reason so QED they will considering the wording of their A-to-Z guarantee.

My goalposts have never moved. From post one, my point is that it isnt return/RMA fraud, as long as you dont misrepresent why you're returning it.

You've contorted yourself around so much its like you dont even remember the point you were trying to make.

Lastly, most merchants have a return policy that allowed for all situations minus certain exclusions. Anyone with that type of system wouldn't need an "overclocking guarantee" any more than they would need a "UPS driver stole it" guarantee or a hurricane guarantee.

If you go to a store and drop a glass, paying for it is still the right thing to do because YOU broke it. Most stores won't make you, but if you go in there all the time and smash shit they'll take notice. Now if you are very clumsy and do it a lot at a lot of places, they may never catch on but should everyone have to pay for the shit you break because you arent careful? NO. It's called PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY and sadly this world is lacking it more and more.

AN RMA is returning a product because its defective. If you RMA a product, not because it does not conform to the manufacturers specifications, but because it does not meet your specifications, ITS FRAUD.

Anandtech does NOT condone people advocating fraud.

Agreed, but save your breath. Man I really wish I hadn't posted in this thread.

 

[Makaveli]

Forget all about overclocking for a minute - maybe you just don't know how to install a CPU very well and decide you don't want it after installing it. Is that ok to return, even if you say, made a tiny bend a pin on it? It still works...for now, but maybe the next person will break the pin on installation?

I'll give you a hint as well - that last example happens hundreds of times more often than problems with overclocked CPU's.

I've seen this first hand and most stores I go to if anyone brings in a processor which is rare because they don't often go bad unless people abuse them.

The first thing they do it pull it out and flip it over and inspect the pins. Then they will drop it another system to check that it boots and is functioning.

If you actually some how talk them into giving you a new cpu they won't repackage the old one and sell it as new. It will be open box and marked down.

Anyone that buys a used processor knows to check the pins on it.

 

[SiliconWars]

"open box" items are only if they can't be sold as new, in which case the retailer will not give you the full refund for taking it back. In Amazon's case they will only give you up to 50% of what you paid, then will go on to sell the item for 75% of new. Still feel sorry for them and their profiteering?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...?nodeId=901926

Believe me, you all have bought "new" items that have been in the hands of others for various lengths of time, completely unaware that they were not brand new. The retailers know it as well so if you're so concerned about ethics and their welfare then you might want to think about that, because under your mindset they are behaving unethically by reselling what they know isn't "new" as new - so long as it's not obvious to the next buyer it's all totally fine!

Just wake up to the reality of business. This is how it works, how it's always worked. If you buy something that doesn't meet your expectations (this is the key), then refuse to return it because some "ethics" prevents you then you're just being a victim of your own mindset.

 

[Gillbot]

I'm pretty sure you CAN tell if you damaged a chip while overclocking it. If you then decide to RMA it at that point, yes that is fraudulent.

If however you return it not in the knowledge that it is damaged when it is, that's unfortunate however the chances of it being found to be damaged are still very small. If another person gets it, vast chances are they won't overclock it. If it stays alive within the 2 or 3 year warranty, that's what they paid for (this is the same argument you use about bad overclockers and stock speeds).

If it does break under warranty then they get a brand new chip for free - quite often a faster or upgraded one at that.

Not necessarily - all it takes is a tiny bit of pulled wool that can unravel on catching something. How do you know you haven't damaged something on an item of clothing you've returned? You don't.

Forget all about overclocking for a minute - maybe you just don't know how to install a CPU very well and decide you don't want it after installing it. Is that ok to return, even if you say, made a tiny bend a pin on it? It still works...for now, but maybe the next person will break the pin on installation?

I'll give you a hint as well - that last example happens hundreds of times more often than problems with overclocked CPU's.

I buy stuff and install it wrong, i eat the cost and I throw it in the trash. it's not the retailers fault I screwed up. PERIOD. Read my heatware, there are posts in there to where i've admitted I messed something up and told them I did. Not once did I ever ask someone (or a store) to take something back because I screwed it up.

 

[SiliconWars]

I buy stuff and install it wrong, i eat the cost and I throw it in the trash. it's not the retailers fault I screwed up. PERIOD. Read my heatware, there are posts in there to where i've admitted I messed something up and told them I did. Not once did I ever ask someone (or a store) to take something back because I screwed it up.

In that case I meant the person who installed it was unaware of what they did wrong.

I get a lot of LGA mobo's back with the socket pins completely screwed - it's clear that many people have no idea what they are doing.

 

[Gillbot]

In that case I meant the person who installed it was unaware of what they did wrong.

I get a lot of LGA mobo's back with the socket pins completely screwed - it's clear that many people have no idea what they are doing.

It's completely irrelevant in this case. YOU know you got a dud overclocker so your analogy means nothing. Either way, if you try to return something with damaged pins they normally refuse the return anyway.

 

[SiliconWars]

It's completely irrelevant in this case. YOU know you got a dud overclocker so your analogy means nothing. Either way, if you try to return something with damaged pins they normally refuse the return anyway.

Knowing you have a bad overclocker is completely different from knowing you have a faulty chip. In fact you and others have been making that distinction over and over when it suited you.

 

[Gillbot]

Knowing you have a bad overclocker is completely different from knowing you have a faulty chip. In fact you and others have been making that distinction over and over when it suited you.

Everyone is using examples of varying degree to try and show their point, neither seems to be willing to see the other side so I think I already covered it when I said we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[SiliconWars]

Well that's normally what happens on a forum lol.

I just don't think it helps your case when you start accusing people of fraud or being unethical. I consider it unethical to support corporations over consumers for example - and that's what got me dragged into this discussion in the first place due to the stuff about prices being raised and all that.

It's not true - corporations raise prices because they can and because they will screw you for every penny you have if you give them the chance. Some of us feel like we are getting a tiny bit back whenever we stick it to them - however small. They take advantage of every rule they can regarding you, and you should do the same regarding them - and while I agree that this is a sorry state of affairs - this is how it is.

 

[Gillbot]

Well that's normally what happens on a forum lol.

I just don't think it helps your case when you start accusing people of fraud or being unethical. I consider it unethical to support corporations over consumers for example - and that's what got me dragged into this discussion in the first place due to the stuff about prices being raised and all that.

It's not true - corporations raise prices because they can and because they will screw you for every penny you have if you give them the chance. Some of us feel like we are getting a tiny bit back whenever we stick it to them - however small. They take advantage of every rule they can regarding you, and you should do the same regarding them - and while I agree that this is a sorry state of affairs - this is how it is.

You think this way about "evil corporations" however, if another employer offered you a substantial raise to change, you'd likely change even if your current employer absolutely needed you to stay. You can't have your cake and eat it too and sadly THIS is the truth, everyone is out for themselves only some are willing to see the other side.

 

[SiliconWars]

Well I've only ever been self employed for any meaningful time so I don't know if that is the case or not.

If you mean at a corporate level then yes I would accept the better pay/conditions. You are absolutely nothing to any company of this size. At a smaller family-sized company things are different, and you might actually be important to them and they probably treat you accordingly even if they can't pay you as much. In that case you might stay even with lesser pay.

I just don't know, I've never been in the position but I assume that is how I'd feel about it. I don't believe that everybody is only out for themselves but I do believe that you are nothing to a large corporation (the type we are discussing here) except for money, so you might as well treat them the same way.

Note that I wouldn't return the same bad overclocking CPU to a smaller family-run business if I thought they'd lose out on it. This is why you just don't accuse people flatly of being unethical because for many it's far more complicated than that.

 

[John Connor]

My current Q6600 was OCed to 3.2 GHz but ever since I updated the BIOS I can't OC for the life of me anymore. I just want to build a new computer though. Use this old beast as a game server or something.

 

[MrSquished]

a good way to get a good oc'd chip is to find someone online near you who posts a ridiculous oc, then just go and take it.

 

[goobee]

It's called PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY and sadly this world is lacking it more and more.

Yep, sigh......

 

[Pseudoics]

I browsed this forum for a few months to get user opinions before my own Haswell build, and it was precisely because I lucked out with a great chip that I eagerly shared my experience here. Had I only OC'd to ~4.3Ghz? There's enough complaining about that already.

I built another 4770K machine just last week with top end, overpriced MB and components - and it only managed 4.5Ghz@1.3v with a H100i hitting the high 80s in Handbrake (my preferred real-world AVX heat test)

Mine does 4.8GHz@1.28v on an air cooler with similar temps and a lower tier, Z87-Pro. I'm currently running 4.7@1.25v so encoding temps in the Aussie summer won't bother me.

As people have said - it's mainly luck. With perhaps a skew to people with great results reporting more than the average performers.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My current Q6600 was OCed to 3.2 GHz but ever since I updated the BIOS I can't OC for the life of me anymore. I just want to build a new computer though. Use this old beast as a game server or something.

Oh! I've been there before. You didn't say what sort of motherboard and chipset you had. I had an NVidia 680i chipset. There were several BIOS revisions that occurred before Intel released the Kentsfield G0 stepping. Turns out, updating the BIOS to versions released for the latest stepping made it difficult to overclock the earlier Kentsfield. I had to flash the BIOS with an older version. I couldn't tell you if this situation was common for Intel chipsets and BIOS.

Mine does 4.8GHz@1.28v on an air cooler with similar temps and a lower tier, Z87-Pro. I'm currently running 4.7@1.25v so encoding temps in the Aussie summer won't bother me.

Did you have to de-lid the Haswell (if such is possible?)? ASUS has produced a series of boards beginning with the Z68 V-Pro -- later a Z77 and now a Z87. I don't regard these boards as "lower tier," but "mid-range" with promising features. Of course, I'd need to experience the latest two generations firsthand, before I'd know for sure . . .

 

[John Connor]

This is what I have. http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2456#ov

 

[BonzaiDuck]

This is what I have. http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2456#ov

Well, it's a bit late in the ball-game for the Q6600. Why did you need to update the BIOS? I'm assuming you could flash it again to restore the older version. The other option depends on whether you have a BIOS chip on that Gigabyte board that can be removed with a chip-puller. Probably for about $15 you could buy another BIOS chip with the older BIOS and just stick it into the motherboard (after the usual steps -- resetting to default and so on.)

I built my Q6600 in 2007 -- six years ago. When I built my Sandy Bridge system, I finally just decided to give the whole enchilada to my brother.

 

[Pseudoics]

Did you have to de-lid the Haswell (if such is possible?)? ASUS has produced a series of boards beginning with the Z68 V-Pro -- later a Z77 and now a Z87. I don't regard these boards as "lower tier," but "mid-range" with promising features. Of course, I'd need to experience the latest two generations firsthand, before I'd know for sure . . .

My results are without de-lidding, which I will eventually do to mine as it seems worthwhile. And by "lower tier" I meant in comparison to the worse performing build (using a Maximus VI Formula). The Pro is a very capable board.

 

[John Connor]

Why did you need to update the BIOS?

I was going to update the CPU. Guess I'll try to downgrade the BIOS.

 

[ali1988]

Can buy some golden chips online. Why test a dozen chips when you can get a surefire performer. I've even PM'd some people on forums that OC as a hobby to acquire their golden chips after they've finished having their fun with them.

 

[Headfoot]

Stop using the words Moral and Ethic -- You don't know their definitions.


Vendors know people RMA these chips for these reasons. Don't you think if they were losing a shit load of money, they would have some kind of procedure implemented to check RMA'd CPUs?


Bottom line:

Until you've worked in a RMA department and actually have seen concrete statistics, stop spreading FUD.


It's not immoral, or unethical to RMA a chip that is 100% functional. And one could even argue that people might not try to get 'golden' chips if Intel would stop being cheap with their shitty TIM under their IHS'.

The bad language got you the infraction, and yes it is unethical to RMA a perfectly working chip.
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

You can't define ethics. Stop trying. It's subjective by definition. Your view of ethics is going to be different than everyone else's definition. You don't hold a "trump card" definition of ethics that will wow us all. Protip: willfully distorting your moral reality so that you can feel good about returning working chips isn't the definition of "ethics."