How do you carry a gun while jogging?

[alkemyst]

lol at roids.

Also is it paranoid delusion to call the police when you witness a car being broke into?

You don't work 70 hours either, lolz.

 

[irishScott]

Smart = coward then.

Just jumping in here, there's a difference between intervening and instigating. To use your previous two stories, in the "hood rats in the intersection story" I would have done much the same, although I probably would have waited for them to approach before using the OC spray or whatever so I'd have that much more legal defense in court. Basically I'm fine with what you did here. That's intervening to stop what in many states would be vandalism and possibly assault.

In the blocked "drive-through" situation, you went a little overboard and instigated. When she told me to "shut-up bitch", I would have found the manager and politely asked if he/she allowed his/her customers to be abused like this, and basically made a quick case that catering to this crazy bitch would be worse business than running her out. At that point I imagine most managers would come out and replace the meal; and if she threw in their faces would threaten to call the police.

Bottom line is physical violence or the threat of physical violence is only a proper response when you are first threatened with said. If the first situation got ugly and you were taken to court, you could literally say "I stopped and politely asked if they were having engine trouble; when they got out of their car, approached aggressively, made threats and made me fear for my life and the life of the woman in the car they were blocking". That's a solid defense in most states, and due to the nature of your opening comment you aren't violating any "duty to retreat" clause that I know of. At least not according to the letter of the law. In a "stand-your-ground" state you could straight-up say you intervened to stop an active act of vandalism or assault and be fine.

If the 2nd situation got ugly, you would be guilty of escalating the situation and would be in some hot water legally, as you responded to a non-lethal threat of force, from a woman no less (perception matters in court), with a lethal threat. "She threatened to slap me, I threatened to shoot her despite having plenty of time to walk away" would not go over well.

 

[irishScott]

I will only engage when life is endager. Everything us is petty ego. This is what I've learned as an adult and this is why I know I'll probably never need that gun. I am not a coward, cowards are people who are afraid to act. I choose to do nothing as a form of action until my action is required to save lives. That is just called smart.

The issue there is the (admittedly unlikely) scenario where the other party is threatening lives, possibly yours with a weapon and your ability to take action is then limited or non-existent.

 

[alkemyst]

Down here management is severely crippled due to lawsuits. Some will just ignore it.

In this case the employees asked her to move her truck and she told them 'she wasn't hearing that / move it yourself I dare you!'.

She basically ended up shaking them down for free food. They complied to get her out of the establishment.

 

[Fritzo]

I am well aware of my laws. I have had to talk to police a few times. I haven't been in the wrong yet and yes they did warn me it was dangerous.

I am not a coward though.

I am.

i may be a craven little coward, but I'm a GREEEEEDY craven little coward:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hRORGrBUSUY#t=167s

 

[JulesMaximus]

I am.

i may be a craven little coward, but I'm a GREEEEEDY craven little coward:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hRORGrBUSUY#t=167s

The alkemyst abhors you.

 

[alkemyst]

The alkemyst abhors you.

not really, it's insignificant to me.

 

[sourceninja]

The issue there is the (admittedly unlikely) scenario where the other party is threatening lives, possibly yours with a weapon and your ability to take action is then limited or non-existent.

It's all in how aware you are to perceived threats. If you walk though life oblivious to the dangers around you, yes you will probably end up blind sided and unable to use your weapon. If you keep an eye out for where you are, who's around you, and what's going on, you can be in a position to protect yourself.

It's all in proper distancing, too far and you are paranoid, keeping everyone at bay because they might hurt you. Too close and you are oblivious, and will be unable to defend yourself. When you see that scary looking guy walking down the street, you don't have to cross the street, but you don't have to put your hand on your gun either.

 

[alkemyst]

It's all in how aware you are to perceived threats. If you walk though life oblivious to the dangers around you, yes you will probably end up blind sided and unable to use your weapon. If you keep an eye out for where you are, who's around you, and what's going on, you can be in a position to protect yourself.

It's all in proper distancing, too far and you are paranoid, keeping everyone at bay because they might hurt you. Too close and you are oblivious, and will be unable to defend yourself. When you see that scary looking guy walking down the street, you don't have to cross the street, but you don't have to put your hand on your gun either.

dude, if you are not focused on interacting when things haven't directly affected you, you will end up one day in the middle of something you didn't expect.

I don't think you end up in places where there is any threats though...or at least you have been oblivious to them.

 

[SP33Demon]

Wow this thread blew the f up. Agree with the others, Alky shouldn't be threatening to shoot someone for saying they'd slap him. That's escalating the situation and downright childish stupidity. One day Alky will say that to the wrong person and end up with a hole in his head while rigor mortis clutching his pepper spray when the police arrive on the scene.

 

[alkemyst]

Wow this thread blew the f up. Agree with the others, Alky shouldn't be threatening to shoot someone for saying they'd slap him. That's escalating the situation and downright childish stupidity. One day Alky will say that to the wrong person and end up with a hole in his head while rigor mortis clutching his pepper spray when the police arrive on the scene.

Me asking them "what are they going to do, shoot me?" is not me telling them I will shoot them.

I haven't always escaped injury free from these altercations in my life.

I am a big boy though and I know the risks.

You can be one of the manly posters that go 'ki ki ki ki ki' and rant how I had it coming trying to stop a theft or some kind of violence against a person/animal. Make yourself feel really good how you can just stay inside and make up stories online.

 

[Jeeebus]

I feel dirty for saying this - but in the "fact" scenarios described above, Alky is right - one is not considered the 'initial aggressor' solely because they called out some asshole on the road or in a fast food joint.

Granted, if words are exchanged, and then Alky charges the car with axe in hand, he can't claim self-defense when they pull a gun and Alky decapitates them before they manage to pull the trigger.

That is what an initial aggressor is. Same as in the fast food joint example. 'Hey bitch - don't park your car in the drive thru.' 'Oh ya? Fuck you.' Then Alky decks her, she pulls a knife, he shoots her. Again, can't claim self defense.

 

[alkemyst]

But if she were to indeed slap the shit out of me, while lethal force would be wrong. I could ruin her lunch legally

 

[JulesMaximus]

It's all in how aware you are to perceived threats. If you walk though life oblivious to the dangers around you, yes you will probably end up blind sided and unable to use your weapon. If you keep an eye out for where you are, who's around you, and what's going on, you can be in a position to protect yourself.

It's all in proper distancing, too far and you are paranoid, keeping everyone at bay because they might hurt you. Too close and you are oblivious, and will be unable to defend yourself. When you see that scary looking guy walking down the street, you don't have to cross the street, but you don't have to put your hand on your gun either.

One can also use those skills to avoid situations all together. I've done that at various times in my life to protect myself and my family.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

One can also use those skills to avoid situations all together. I've done that at various times in my life to protect myself and my family.

I'd love to hear you try to have some of these arguments with rape victims, random senseless attacks, etc etc....


Like come on, you should've been more aware and this wouldn't have happened...

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I feel dirty for saying this - but in the "fact" scenarios described above, Alky is right - one is not considered the 'initial aggressor' solely because they called out some asshole on the road or in a fast food joint.

Granted, if words are exchanged, and then Alky charges the car with axe in hand, he can't claim self-defense when they pull a gun and Alky decapitates them before they manage to pull the trigger.

That is what an initial aggressor is. Same as in the fast food joint example. 'Hey bitch - don't park your car in the drive thru.' 'Oh ya? Fuck you.' Then Alky decks her, she pulls a knife, he shoots her. Again, can't claim self defense.

This... Same as in the other thread, it is abundantly clear that MOST people have no clue about self-defense laws, and what permits someone to use force. No clue whatsoever.

 

[dascoyne]

deadly force should only be an option when there is imminent and unavoidable threat to your life or the life of someone you know. I don't believe in brandishing a weapon as a "threat". Only present the weapon if you intend to shoot - to stop an act of violence. This is the responsible way to carry a firearm.

 

[SP33Demon]

Me asking them "what are they going to do, shoot me?" is not me telling them I will shoot them.

I haven't always escaped injury free from these altercations in my life.

I am a big boy though and I know the risks.

You can be one of the manly posters that go 'ki ki ki ki ki' and rant how I had it coming trying to stop a theft or some kind of violence against a person/animal. Make yourself feel really good how you can just stay inside and make up stories online.

You didn't ask them that. You wrote: "It escalated until she told me she was about to slap the shit out of me. I told her she better go and get a gun then."

This is called escalating the situation, because if she was nuts (and she was halfway nuts by coming after you in the parking lot afterwards) and had a gun, then there's a good chance she could have brandished it. Come to Baltimore or Detroit and say stupid sht like that, just make sure your wife has a good policy on you. Use your brain for once and not your mouth.

Edit: This is what would happen to alkemyst if he came to Baltimore telling people they better get their gun:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/14/justice/maryland-beating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

 

[irishScott]

It's all in how aware you are to perceived threats. If you walk though life oblivious to the dangers around you, yes you will probably end up blind sided and unable to use your weapon. If you keep an eye out for where you are, who's around you, and what's going on, you can be in a position to protect yourself.

It's all in proper distancing, too far and you are paranoid, keeping everyone at bay because they might hurt you. Too close and you are oblivious, and will be unable to defend yourself. When you see that scary looking guy walking down the street, you don't have to cross the street, but you don't have to put your hand on your gun either.

So say you're gassing up and the gas station gets robbed while you're paying. Specifically the robber notices you wearing a martial-arts-club t-shirt, perceives you as a higher threat and points his weapon at you. Could you foresee that?

Plus we're all human. I've done some pretty bone-headed stuff due to moderate sleep deprivation. There's no way you can be alert to every threat and potential threat all the time, no matter how paranoid. Considering paranoia doesn't even come close and a more casual mentality even less so, if one of those threats slips through the cracks and catches you off guard, you need options. A gun in one of those options. Situational awareness does a lot, but it isn't anywhere near perfect.

 

[sourceninja]

So say you're gassing up and the gas station gets robbed while you're paying. Specifically the robber notices you wearing a martial-arts-club t-shirt, perceives you as a higher threat and points his weapon at you. Could you foresee that?

Plus we're all human. I've done some pretty bone-headed stuff due to moderate sleep deprivation. There's no way you can be alert to every threat and potential threat all the time, no matter how paranoid. Considering paranoia doesn't even come close and a more casual mentality even less so, if one of those threats slips through the cracks and catches you off guard, you need options. A gun in one of those options. Situational awareness does a lot, but it isn't anywhere near perfect.

More likely, if a thief has any reason to think your trouble, he will find himself a new mark. However, what is your point here? How does alkemyst direct conflict as a method of self defense solve this problem you just presented? He would be pumping gas, the guy would see his pepper spray and point a his weapon at him. Either way he would be in the same boat.

Also, I dont' wear club tshirts, I learned at a young age that you don't want to wear martial art shirts, it only leads to fights. The first day I got my ass kicked in middle school was the day the school announcements congratulated me on taking first place in a TKD competition (Thanks mom). It's the same reason I don't open carry.

There is no 100% method of self defense. But being situationally aware combined with being trained to act under stress and being confident in yourself and appearance (these seem to go hand in hand) will solve about 90% of problems before they start. Taking shit to random strangers doesn't fit into self defense, it fits into getting yourself into situations where you need weapons and fight training.

Self defense to me is about not needing to fight, but knowing I can. Self defense to alkemyst is about trying to instigate the fight so he can defend himself.

*edit* Reading your post again, you do realize I carry a firearm every single day and I train to use it constantly. I train martial arts (Judo, Boxing, and BJJ currently) as a hobby. If I ever am forced to defend myself, it will be because I have decided my life is in immediate danger and I act. There is no way in hell I'm going to try to throw the guy with a judo throw and lock in a submission. I'm going to make space, draw my weapon and fire. This is for the same reason I don't talk shit to people, that guy who wants to hurt me might have a weapon he hasn't revealed yet.

 

[dascoyne]

More likely, if a thief has any reason to think your trouble, he will find himself a new mark. However, what is your point here? How does alkemyst direct conflict as a method of self defense solve this problem you just presented? He would be pumping gas, the guy would see his pepper spray and point a his weapon at him. Either way he would be in the same boat.

Also, I dont' wear club tshirts, I learned at a young age that you don't want to wear martial art shirts, it only leads to fights. The first day I got my ass kicked in middle school was the day the school announcements congratulated me on taking first place in a TKD competition (Thanks mom). It's the same reason I don't open carry.

There is no 100% method of self defense. But being situationally aware combined with being trained to act under stress and being confident in yourself and appearance (these seem to go hand in hand) will solve about 90% of problems before they start. Taking shit to random strangers doesn't fit into self defense, it fits into getting yourself into situations where you need weapons and fight training.

Self defense to me is about not needing to fight, but knowing I can. Self defense to alkemyst is about trying to instigate the fight so he can defend himself.

*edit* Reading your post again, you deal realize I carry a firearm every single day and I train to use it constantly. I train martial arts (Judo, Boxing, and BJJ currently) as a hobby. If I ever am forced to defend myself, it will be because I have decided my life is in immediate danger and I act. There is no way in hell I'm going to try to throw the guy with a judo throw and lock in a submission. I'm going to make space, draw my weapon and fire. This is for the same reason I don't talk shit to people, that guy who wants to hurt me might have a weapon he hasn't revealed yet.

Situational awareness and avoidance is the most valuable part of the equation. It's something that's addressed in all good defensive handgun courses (e.g. Gunsite, Front Sight etc.) as well.

 

[irishScott]

More likely, if a thief has any reason to think your trouble, he will find himself a new mark. However, what is your point here? How does alkemyst direct conflict as a method of self defense solve this problem you just presented? He would be pumping gas, the guy would see his pepper spray and point a his weapon at him. Either way he would be in the same boat.

Also, I dont' wear club tshirts, I learned at a young age that you don't want to wear martial art shirts, it only leads to fights. The first day I got my ass kicked in middle school was the day the school announcements congratulated me on taking first place in a TKD competition (Thanks mom). It's the same reason I don't open carry.

There is no 100% method of self defense. But being situationally aware combined with being trained to act under stress and being confident in yourself and appearance (these seem to go hand in hand) will solve about 90% of problems before they start. Taking shit to random strangers doesn't fit into self defense, it fits into getting yourself into situations where you need weapons and fight training.

Self defense to me is about not needing to fight, but knowing I can. Self defense to alkemyst is about trying to instigate the fight so he can defend himself.

*edit* Reading your post again, you do realize I carry a firearm every single day and I train to use it constantly. I train martial arts (Judo, Boxing, and BJJ currently) as a hobby. If I ever am forced to defend myself, it will be because I have decided my life is in immediate danger and I act. There is no way in hell I'm going to try to throw the guy with a judo throw and lock in a submission. I'm going to make space, draw my weapon and fire. This is for the same reason I don't talk shit to people, that guy who wants to hurt me might have a weapon he hasn't revealed yet.

I did not, I interpreted your earlier comment about never needing a gun as saying you didn't carry, and thought your martial arts training/self awareness was enough to cover all threats. In light of this post, nvm.

I'm not defending alky aside from his first story. Maybe he did it to pump up his ego, I'm not in his head and I'm not going to judge. The net effect though was an intervention with a positive outcome, and that is what I am in favor of. If I'm ever in any situation where I think I can help, I try to. Just last week I overheard a conversation about a guy having some academic trouble due to hospitalization and unexcused absences. Technically not my business, but the situation sounded legit and I know a few people in that line of the University administration that handle such cases. So I interjected and gave him a couple of names to look up. Not sure if it helped or not, but he clearly appreciated the effort.

Likewise I would intervene in violent and potentially violent situations as well if I judged I had the capacity, and IMO if more people did life would be a lot more pleasant. There is such as thing as deescalation through force. It's not preferable, but if for instance I have to brandish my gun to stop a fight before it starts, I'd much rather do that than shoot someone.

 

[sourceninja]

I understand your position. I would never brandish my weapon. If I draw it I'm shooting it (because I fear for my life). Brandishing could give them the time they need to act and take it away from me (and use it against me) or use their own weapon.

I'm not saying you shouldn't help people. I'm saying you need to help in a way that is smart and doesn't start trouble. I would help in a violent case by calling the police. If I saw someone who's life was in immediate danger and I possessed the ability to immediately stop the danger, I would do so. I will help anyone with a 'friendly' problem like the one you described above. But in a non-violent, but potentially explosive situation, I'm going to keep my butt out of it.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Bump for update

 

[highland145]

How is the accessibility? Looks like the pistol is at the wrong angle under the arm.