How do you live on minimum wage?!

[DonNiggera]

I don't know the average bill's for people. I just came up with some "Less than half what we pay" sort of bills :/

and by the way, I'm NOT rich, get over thinking that I am :/

 

[Jfur]

<< I don't know the average bill's for people. I just came up with some "Less than half what we pay" sort of bills :/

and by the way, I'm NOT rich, get over thinking that I am :/ >>



that's right!! most of us have parents bringin in over 200K per year, too!!!

 

[Ferocious]

Unchecked greed of the wealthy and corporates have always been the biggest enemies of the middle class in the USA History plainly shows this.

 

[CorCentral]

First off , if you live alone & make a decent $8. - $10. an hour , you can make it no problem , "BUT" .......... you cannot buy all the things you "WANT" & will have to live on canned chili (not Hormel) & sleep on the floor , although most cannot tolerate a couch let alone a floor (Pussies) . (I've done this & worked my way up) ................................but for the lucky few who have roomates , girlfriends , wives , others/etc. you'll have it much easier , for you can get the things you really need & plan ahead .

Subject change (slightly)...............

Also , I think the people who "HAVE" children should be penalized tax wise , not given "MORE" tax money back for each child they have !
You want children , you pay for them ! ................ Why you ask ? Out of all the people that read this that have no kids but the people that you work with have kids : HOW many times have the people you work with that have children got extra time off or excuses from work because of thier kids ?

Example : I have to pick my kids up from school early today / My kid's sick / I have to go to Soccer practice & watch timmy play .

You work hard & see this Crap every damn day ............. They think to themselves (Oh I'm on salary & can take off because of my kids).............They do & it WORKS (while we WORK) !

Love kids but hate EXUSES from LAZZZZZZY people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couples without kids tend to spend more money than Couples with kids .

 

[Amused]

Get a second job. A car is a luxury. So is a phone. Don't live alone --Get roommates. And $200 a month in food is a bit much. Learn how to cook from scratch and economize instead of buying preprepared/namebrand food.

Better yet, don't move out of mommy and daddy's house until you get an education. Or join the army.

Oh, and if you're still earning minimum wage after a year, even with only a high school education, that's your fault. Minimum wage jobs are for entry level positions in unskilled labor. The key is to get a skill.

Last, but not least, DON'T START A FAMILY UNTIL YOU KNOW YOU CAN SUPPORT IT.

My father died when I was 18. That left no money for school. I joined the army, had them pay for school, and never looked back. It was hard work in the army, and then working two jobs and going to school after I got out... but I did it.

Life is not easy... get used to it.

[edit]You know, all one has to do is watch Mexican migrant workers to put this all into perspective and show how spoiled rotten we really are.

They come up here, work minimum wage, and are able to send back 30-50% of their money to family in Mexico... and live in much better conditions than they would back home.

 

[CorCentral]

AmusedOne :

<< You know, all one has to do is watch Mexican migrant workers to put this all into perspective and show how spoiled rotten we really are. >>




Damn right ! ............. But remember that they have 6-10 people per family/household to grub thier way through life !

I worked with many Mexicans before that had Brand New vehicles but thier houses were in the slums .................... All of us have priorities & I guess the Mexicans choose thier Low-riders & modified Pickups over thier children , for which they receive "FREE or DISCOUNTED" daycare for & food stamps even though they work !!!!!!!

You work for thier children !
Screw them !

What can we do ? .................... Twiddle our thumbs I suppose !!!!!

 

[Amused]

<< AmusedOne :

<< You know, all one has to do is watch Mexican migrant workers to put this all into perspective and show how spoiled rotten we really are. >>




Damn right ! ............. But remember that they have 6-10 people per family/household to grub thier way through life !

I worked with many Mexicans before that had Brand New vehicles but thier houses were in the slums .................... All of us have priorities & I guess the Mexicans choose thier Low-riders & modified Pickups over thier children , for which they receive "FREE or DISCOUNTED" daycare for & food stamps even though they work !!!!!!!

You work for thier children !
Screw them !

What can we do ? .................... Twiddle our thumbs I suppose !!!!! >>



You're mistaking Mexicans who have settled here for migrant workers. Two totally different cultures. Get out to farm country to see the migrant workers.

 

[CorCentral]

I know the difference & it is very much the same .


If you would though ................... Please explain the difference .

 

[Amused]

<< I know the difference & it is very much the same .


If you would though ................... Please explain the difference . >>



Well, all of the migrant workers I've meet had their families back in Mexico/central/South America. Most have no cars, and those who do have old beater pick-ups or vans. They don't spend anything here except necessities, and send the rest of their money back home to their families.

They have an incredible work ethic, and work 12+hours a day, 7 days a week.

Now, granted most of the ones I have knowledge of are in the South and Midwest. I grew up in Los Angeles, CA, but left at 18, so my experience there is confined to the city.

 

[Jerboy]

"Monthly:
House payment:
~$250 (a mobile home)
Insurance:
~$150
Power/Water/Phone
~$150
Food
~$200
Car:
(Hopefully you have one that's paid off... at this wage)
~$150
Insurance:
~$50 save each month for 6 month payment
Gas Money:
~$100"

You can go alot less than $150 on utility.

Power bill: Use CFL's, shut off the lights when you're not using them, unplug unnecessary stuff and turn off the computer at night.
Water bill: I remember someone on TV story that only flushed their toilet after going #2 to save on water bill
Phone: get a minimum plan and apply for poor people's saver

Food: Can you get food stamps? fast food adds up fast by the way.

Car: Get rid of it and take buses. If you must have it, sell it and get a Geo Metro. Drive it conservatively to improve fuel economy.

 

[Mucman]

DonNiggera, umm you don't think raking in $200k US a year is rich? Crap, my Dad makes ~$100k cdn (~$65k US) and I thought we were doing pretty darn good... You think you're middle class or something?

 

[Amused]

<< DonNiggera, umm you don't think raking in $200k US a year is rich? Crap, my Dad makes ~$100k cdn (~$65k US) and I thought we were doing pretty darn good... You think you're middle class or something? >>



"Rich" is a subjective term, just as "poor" is.

I consider $200K a year to be upper middle class.

And rich isn't tied solely to income, either. It applies to net worth, as well. Someone making 200K a year, but deep in debt and no investments or savings is not nearly as well off as someone making 200K a year, with a few million or more in investments.

 

[Mucman]

AmusedOne, you make a very valid point... I guess the majority though would equate $200kUS ~ $300k cdn as extremely well off and probably in the 99th percentile of the richest (don't quote me on that though ). btw, If you have debts when you are making $200kUS per year than I think you have a large problem with handling money! I am 21, going to school but I have no debts... I work half time and I budget accordingly... anyways, enough of what I think

 

[tcsenter]

Here's how:

$960/month - 20% for taxes = $720.00

House payment: ~$250 (you rent a cheap apartment or get a room-mate)

Insurance: ~$16 (I assume by insurance you mean home owners? Insurance on a trailer wouldn't cost more than $200 annually)

Power/Water/Phone: ~$75 (sharing expenses or small apartment, VERY little long distance, no call waiting, conference calling, call forwarding, caller ID, voice mail, etc.)

Food: ~$100 (I can eat just fine on less than $25/week)

Car: $50 (You buy a beater and pay cash - $500 - or you ride to work with a coworker and split the gas)

Insurance: ~$50 save each month for 6 month payment (this is reasonable for PL/PD)

Gas Money: ~$60 (any more than that, you need to move closer to your job, or get a job closer to home)

Total = ~601.00

You don't live pretty, minimum wage isn't about living pretty. I've been there a few times. Minimum wage jobs are aimed at teenagers and college students, not head of households.

<< good read (referring to ardent socialist Barbara Ehrenreich's book "Nickle and Dimed"). >>

A better read:

Scraping by Laura Miller: Review of "Nickle and Dimed"

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I've seen several posts in this thread about how bad migrants have it over here. What a lot of you don't realize is they CHOOSE to live like this. Most of them make a fair bit above minimum wage, yes really, but they do all they can to SAVE every penny. They slum around for a few years in the States and then go back to Mexico to live VERY well on the money they made here. I have to say these folks manage their money better than most Americans.

 

[shifrbv]

I consider $200K a year to be upper middle class.

Middle class isn't well defined either.

Considering the average tax return is around $50-60K, $200K is obviously in that upper percentile. But it doesn't buy as much as it used to, so people making this amount probably still think they're in the "middle" when in actuality, they're making upwards of 75% more than the average and are significantly more well off.

As far as the mobile home payment, I think this is on the low end. It certainly wouldn't cover either the cost of land to put that mobile home on (plus property taxes) or lot fees to have that mobile home in a mobile home park (which are usually an extra $100 a month (which is a conservative estimate).

If you don't qualify for a loan on one of these and must live in an apartment, the rents are usually above $400 a month (which is conservative) even in areas with lower cost of living. Government subsidised housing is not easy to find and there is often a waitlist for younger people because so many senior citizens receive the bulk of help from these types of programs. Housing is the major expense most lower end people have right now because it has been skyrocketing over the last decade.

As far as not having a car, this is not feasible for 85% of the country as so many places have no public transportation. Especially since most of the country is built around ever spreading suburbs which don't have any form of mass transit. These people must have some form of transportation which is why you usually see so many "beaters" on the road when you're out in poor rural areas.

Minimum wage gives you about $650 a month after taxes. If you are single and have no debt, you can do it. An average apartment where I live (midwest) is around $500 a month. A mobile home wouldn't be cheaper because with the basic payment and lot fees, it would be the same price. Land is too expensive, so I wouldn't be able to purchase a lot and pay that as well as property taxes, so that's out of the question. Utilities will run about $50 a month (with no phone). Food would be around $60 a month (if you eat healthy - no meat, more soups and vegetables - all generic brands). There is no public transportation where I live so I would have to hope that I had a beater to run around in or purchase the cheapest car available which I would try to get the lowest payment possible (a geo, kia, some small thing). That would run me about $200 a month. With a perfect driving record and an advanced age, I could get insurance for around $50-60 per month.

Without a car, I could do it, it would only be $610 a month. With a car, I would need a second job or a second income. Having kids would probably be out of the question because I would have to pay for daycare and the many other expenses they require.

If rents went up, which they usually do each year by about $30-50, it would eat up much more of my budget as time passed and I would probably have to move from place to place to keep my rent at the same low introductory rate.

If I lived somewhere that initially had much higher rents, there would be no way to do it without significant help from extended family.

 

[BoberFett]

<< Unchecked greed of the wealthy and corporates have always been the biggest enemies of the middle class in the USA History plainly shows this. >>

Without those "evil, greedy capitalists" there'd be no jobs and we'd still be living in agrarian based, subsistence level society.

 

[BoberFett]

AmusedOne

I daresay a phone is not a luxury in modern society. Internet access? I'd say that's still a luxury. But phone? No.

 

[eshrai]

those housing costs are too low for a lot of areas...especially in ca. you have to go higher, even if you have a few roomates
and when you make that little, you eat top ramen (or maybe thats just us college students...), drink water, and visit other people for dinner a lot...

you cant live alone when you make that little. you have to have roomates

 

[BoberFett]

<< How do you live on minimum wage?! >>

I'll get back to you in a couple months and let you know.

!@#$ing tech job market sucks. :|

 

[shifrbv]

tscenter - Minimum wage jobs are aimed at teenagers and college students, not head of households.

That might be true in better times, but when the economy goes sour and service jobs are the norm of the day, what are people supposed to do? There's a reason Wal-Mart is one of our nation's largest employers right now and it's not because we've recently had a huge influx of teenagers and college students into the job market.

It's because the manufacturing postions which many of these people might have formerly tried to get into are gone and service positions are now going with them. They've no choice but to go back to school (which many of them don't have the inclination to do or wouldn't be able to make it - judging from the typical Wal-Mart clerk) or go into one of the many service sector jobs which are easily available to them (retail, fast food, etc.)

We're in transition right now. Manufacturing is disappearing at an alarming rate (especially scaled up with all the layoffs and plant closings last year and this year and planned for next year). They're in a deep recession. Many service sector jobs are disapearing as well with the demise of the travel industry and as other service industries scale back. Unemployment is expected to rise even more next year. Conservative estimates say it will be well over 6.5%. These people need to move into other industries, but what choice do they have right now? Not alot.

Do we want to go through another "Grapes of Wrath" while these people are looking to provide for themselves during this transition and failing to do so? I hope not. But people like you make me afraid that we haven't learned anything from the past.

 

[tcsenter]

<< They've no choice but to go back to school (which many of them don't have the inclination to do or wouldn't be able to make it - judging from the typical Wal-Mart clerk) or go into one of the many service sector jobs which are easily available to them (retail, fast food, etc.) >>

Exactly! Most of them have no inclination to better themselves. You are right on. Still others, these so-called 'displaced' workers, have NUMEROUS opportunities to be retrained in a better-paying field.

I witnessed the demise of the auto industry in Flint, Michigan. Any employee with several years of seniority but not enough to retire was offered a number of options; moving to another plant, get retrained, go back to school on GM, etc.

Very few took advantage of them. They would say, "The union will get my job back." or "Why should I have to move my family?" Because that's where the jobs are idiot.

Most sat around on their asses, bitching about GM, believing the union would get their jobs back, while they exhausted their unemployment benefits (which was almost 6 full months), then all of a sudden they "found" themselves with no job AND no unemployment benefits, and tried to claim GM "did this to me" even though they hadn't spent 10 minutes in that entire 6 months looking for a job or even considering the possibility that this day would come. The same was true of the steel industry lay-offs in the 60's and 70's, which many of my extended family members were employed in.

These people for years were making exceptional annual incomes, with which they did not use or save any for future contingency, they did not use any of it to procure skills or better themselves. They bought boats, and cars, and big screen TVs, and three wheelers, and snowmobiles, and Harleys or Goldwings, and cabins up North on the lake, etc.

<< Do we want to go through another "Grapes of Wrath" while these people are looking to provide for themselves during this transition and failing to do so? I hope not. But people like you make me afraid that we haven't learned anything from the past. >>

You keep proving my point! Today, there is just no excuse for people to be uneducated and unskilled as the often illiterate families affected by the Dust Bowl were. Remember that party dude in your high school? The one who skipped class and said things like "what the hell is the use of school?" That's who we're talking about today, primarily. They were willing to bet their future livelihood that they wouldn't need all that stupid reading, history, math and crap.

When the bet is called, I don't feel sorry for them, no more than I feel sorry for the gambler who loses his money.

 

[burnedout]

I'm a bit late answering this post, but I'll give you my impressions. At one time, I had worked out a "minimum wage" scenario. tcsenter's calculations more or less mirror the ones I came up with. The amount required to "survive" also depends on one's location.

Here is a real world example: I have an uncle who is 56 years old. He has worked since he was 21. He's partially mentally disabled because of an injury during his youth. He has never earned more than the minimum wage during the past 35 years. Only about three years ago did he begin receiving SSI payments. Yet, he has almost $30,000 in savings. How?

Well, he lived with his mother until she died. He gave her over half of his paycheck for rent and food. After enough was taken out for his weekly expenses, the remainder was put into a savings account. He never owned a car. Always rode with someone to work or caught a bus. And he has indeed "splurged", so to speak, on luxuries over the course of his life.

You keep proving my point! Today, there is just no excuse for people to be uneducated and unskilled as the often illiterate families affected by the Dust Bowl were. Remember that party dude in your high school? The one who skipped class and said things like "what the hell is the use of school?" That's who we're talking about today, primarily. They were willing to bet their future livelihood that they wouldn't need all that stupid reading, history, math and crap.

When the bet is called, I don't feel sorry for them, no more than I feel sorry for the gambler who loses his money.

I strongly agree. One is responsible for their own luck in life. Education is a cornerstone for success in our society. It's a known, proven fact. Another principle, which I strongly believe in, is making the most of what you have.

 

[Amused]

<< AmusedOne

I daresay a phone is not a luxury in modern society. Internet access? I'd say that's still a luxury. But phone? No. >>



Sorry, but I disagree. I lived my first year after I got out of the army without a phone, TV, Stereo (I had an old boombox, though) and car. The apt complex had a payphone in it, though. I held two jobs within 3 miles of my little one room apt. The local library and school filled my spare time. You'd be amazed how much time you have on your hands with no distractions

Now, not having a phone and a car became a problem after I got a better job driving a forklift at nights, so I got them, but by then I could afford 'em.

You know what pisses me off? Watching Cops (the TV show) one time they had a call at a public housing complex. In the apt, guess what they had? A big screen TV. Another odd thing, if you drive by public houysing complexes, you'll often times see a number of pretty expensive cars.

Oh, and to answer another point made on these boards... If you're in an area with exrtemely high rents, and you have no skills, get on a greyhound bus or hitchhike your way to a cheaper place. Standing still like a deer in the headlights and claiming victim status is just plain stupid. You don't wait for things to come to you, you go to them.

After I got out of the Army, I had the choice to stay in GA, or a free ticket back to LA. I chose to stay in GA, and my limited income went a lot further there.

 

[SilverThief]

Impossible.