How do you think Intel will segment its Coffee Lake desktop line-up?

[tamz_msc]

Because that's how Intel does things. Probably will be a tad more expensive but not that much.

As for 2018 HEDT, it's a bit cloudy since it seems like Cannonlake Server got canned. I don't know if that means Cannonlake-X got canned too. Ice Lake-X/Server will be using EMIB I guess so all bets are off what they do there.

If there is also an unlocked 4C/8T part based on the 4+2 die that is branded as an i7, that would take the place of the i7 7700K.

These are not HEDT products. It's a 7700K successor and will be priced accordingly.

The successor to the 4+2 i7 7700K would be another 4+2 part.

Not, the best-case outcome and what will likely happen is a halo 6C/12T part replacing i7-7700K at the same MSRP ($339-350) or slightly higher (inflation).

That's you wishing it turns out that way. Also if it's a halo product it would definitely cost more than 350$, that's what a halo product is anyway.

 

[TennesseeTony]

I don't know about the rest, but regarding the Pentium line, Intel will be developing this chip completely separately, aiming for extreme clock speeds of 8GHz, using what they call Netburst and a new RAM style called RAMBUS RDRAM. TDP is expected to be under 600W.

Sorry, joking, haven't had my coffee yet, it's the best I could do.

 

[Sweepr]

If there is also an unlocked 4C/8T part based on the 4+2 die that is branded as an i7, that would take the place of the i7 7700K. The successor to the 4+2 i7 7700K would be another 4+2 part.

They are not going to put two products with a massive performance gap (4C/8T and 6C/12T) in the same mainstream Core i7 lineup. And the great thing about Coffee Lake-S is that it's a small die, only 126-149 mm² of 14nm++ silicon, so they could very well sell hexa-core parts without HT as Core i5 if they want to (I'll be happy with 4C/8T though).

That's you wishing it turns out that way.

I can tell your expectation of no changes to their lineup except a single >$400 6C model will be proven wrong very soon.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If there is also an unlocked 4C/8T part based on the 4+2 die that is branded as an i7, that would take the place of the i7 7700K.

That's unlikely.

The successor to the 4+2 i7 7700K would be another 4+2 part.

No, it's going to be the 6+2.

That's you wishing it turns out that way. Also if it's a halo product it would definitely cost more than 350$, that's what a halo product is anyway.

Halo product is Skylake-X, not Coffee Lake-S.

 

[w3rd]

I expect to see something like a halo i7 (6C/12T) chip, released possibly at 5Ghz "K" sku @ $599, targeting the "Devil's Canyon" type enthusiasts/buyer.

Coincidentally, how many PCIe lanes and memory channels is Coffee Lake (i7) going to support..?

 

[jpiniero]

I expect to see something like a halo i7 (6C/12T) chip, released possibly at 5Ghz "K" sku @ $599, targeting the "Devil's Canyon" type enthusiasts/buyer.

Coincidentally, how many PCIe lanes and memory channels is Coffee Lake (i7) going to support..?

There will be a Coffee Lake-X, probably at whatever Intel sells Kaby-X at. I think it's 20 PCIe lanes and still 2C.

 

[frozentundra123456]

They are not going to put two products with a massive performance gap (4C/8T and 6C/12T) in the same mainstream Core i7 lineup. And the great thing about Coffee Lake-S is that it's a small die, only 126-149 mm² of 14nm++ silicon, so they could very well sell hexa-core parts without HT as Core i5 if they want to (I'll be happy with 4C/8T though).



I can tell your expectation of no changes to their lineup except a single >$400 6C model will be proven wrong very soon.

I hope you are right, and we get a core/threads increase across the line at the same price, but I also remember a lot of people were arguing that when the 10 core HEDT chip came out the 8 core would get a price cut, but in didnt happen.

 

[tamz_msc]

They are not going to put two products with a massive performance gap (4C/8T and 6C/12T) in the same mainstream Core i7 lineup. And the great thing about Coffee Lake-S is that it's a small die, only 126-149 mm² of 14nm++ silicon, so they could very well sell hexa-core parts without HT as Core i5 if they want to (I'll be happy with 4C/8T though).

Kaby Lake 4+2 is also around 120-130 mm^2.

I can tell your expectation of no changes to their lineup except a single >$400 6C model will be proven wrong very soon.

At this point the chances of either of us being right or wrong is 50/50.

That's unlikely.

Because, reasons?

No, it's going to be the 6+2.

Again, where do you get the information to say this with such assurance?

Halo product is Skylake-X, not Coffee Lake-S.

I was not the first one claiming that 6C12T CFL-S would be the halo product.

 

[coercitiv]

I hope you are right, and we get a core/threads increase across the line at the same price, but I also remember a lot of people were arguing that when the 10 core HEDT chip came out the 8 core would get a price cut, but in didnt happen.

In the current market environment Intel will be pressured into pricing the mainstream 6c/12t into the old 4c/8t slot. Had it not been for that, we might have seen them demand a premium for 6c.

I also think Arachnotronic's lineup is the most likely:
i7 = 6C/12T
i5 = 4C/8T
i3 = 4C/4T
Pentium = 2C/4T
Celeron = 2C/who cares

 

[Kaloi48]

Given the same clock frequency,
4C/8T vs. 6C/6T, which will perform better?

 

[Crumpet]

Given the same clock frequency,
4C/8T vs. 6C/6T, which will perform better?

Well I know which i'd take..

More cores please Geoffrey.

 

[Piroko]

I think I can see their original marketing plan:

1. New tier, 6C12T @420$ unlocked, 320 to 380$ locked,
2. 4C8T moved to 300$ and lower (a drop of 50$),
3. 4C4T moved to 210$ and lower (a drop of 30$),
4. 2C4T to fill up 80$ to 120$ segment,
5. Everything below that moved to Atom.

...with a couple of 6C12T SKUs disguised as 4C8T with larger caches.

But the question is if they'll do that - or skip the "new tier" idea and do drop-in replacements with higher thread counts at the existing price points instead to get some publicity (hey look, Intel is already responding by widening the IPC gap again + the same number of threads at that price!).

Especially since we are going to be half way to Zen+ when these launch, aren't we?

 

[cbn]

Given the same clock frequency,
4C/8T vs. 6C/6T, which will perform better?

I think the 6C/6T would perform better.

However, I'll bet the 4C/8T processors positioned alongside it in Jpiniero's prediction would be clocked higher.

 

[AMDisTheBEST]

I will be very skeptical if intel decides to give consumers hyperthreading i5 or 6 cores i7 for the same price as the current gen.

 

[jpiniero]

I will be very skeptical if intel decides to give consumers hyperthreading i5 or 6 cores i7 for the same price as the current gen.

They don't have much else to offer as an improvement over Kaby Lake at this point.

 

[coercitiv]

I will be very skeptical if intel decides to give consumers hyperthreading i5 or 6 cores i7 for the same price as the current gen.

They don't have a choice really, unless you're also skeptic about clocks improving on Zen in the next 6-9 months?

Intel has every reason in the world to price 6c/12t in the old 4c/8t slot.

 

[gregoryvg]

I wonder what would be better at the same clock speed, a straight six-core CPU or a 4c/4t? Assuming a heavily threaded application or game.

 

[dfk7677]

I think I can see their original marketing plan:

1. New tier, 6C12T @420$ unlocked, 320 to 380$ locked,
2. 4C8T moved to 300$ and lower (a drop of 50$),
3. 4C4T moved to 210$ and lower (a drop of 30$),
4. 2C4T to fill up 80$ to 120$ segment,
5. Everything below that moved to Atom.

...with a couple of 6C12T SKUs disguised as 4C8T with larger caches.

This is also my opinion. They will offer the 6C12T at a higher price level than the current 4C8T, and the new 4C8T at a lower level. What I am skeptical about is that would seem like a price increase to their respective line-ups of i7,i5,i3 even though they would offer more cores/threads for all of them. Of course all of these will depend on how much market share they will lose in '17 from Ryzen CPUs.

It is apparent though that Intel's pricing is more aligned to impressing the investors (margins > market share), that is why they don't price cut now. But with the new i7s (6C/12T) it will be a nice opportunity to say: "We are not price cutting because of competition, we just give you more cores for each line".

 

[mikk]

I wonder what would be better at the same clock speed, a straight six-core CPU or a 4c/4t? Assuming a heavily threaded application or game.

6/6 would be way faster. There is a 50% core increase over a 4/8 config and virtual threads are good for a 20-25% speedup if the application scales well. This is not enough for a native 6 core without SMT. And furthermore there are cases especially in games where Intels SMT doesn't really help that much.

 

[PingSpike]

New i9-9000 with 4c16t, new bigger even bigger iGPU that on flagship chip is almost as good as a 750ti for only thrice the price. Introduction of "Hyperthreading Squarded" feature.
i7-9000 with 4c8t can cache to SSD up to 90GB drives when using z390 chipset boards that start at $250.
i5-9000 with 4c8t same as i7 but only can cache up to 64GB.
i3-9000 rebadged old Atom cores sold for $150, various core counts and clockspeeds
Pentium 4c sold for $63 dollars. 50mhz less than the i5 but is missing video DRM decode instructions required for 8K when running the Windows 10 Fapple update
Celeron 16 core monstrosity. Celeron brand is elevated to flagship status.

 

[Rifter]

I fully expect intel to react to Zen, but not by enough to be competitive.

I expect AMD will still hold the price/perf crown just like they do now and intel will not even try to challenge them on it, and i expect intel to keep selling 6 or greater core chips priced well above what they are really worth, and they will still sell due to intels overwhelming market share/fanboy club.

So i basically expect minor price cuts, core counts staying roughly the same, maybe one stripped down 6 core for mainstream, rest on HEDT only, but still intel will price 6 core and more out of reach of 90% of mainstream buyers.

Where things are really going to get interesting is when the zen APU's launch, as this will really put the pressure on intel in the laptop and OEM space and thats big money, i expect intel to react more to that with price cuts to celeron/pentium and mobile i3/i5 alot more than i expect them to react to Ryzen.

I also have a feeling they will segment it with overclocking, or some other key feature. Such as selling 1 and only 1 6 core on mainstream desktop socket but have it be locked for OC'ing(or have some other key feature removed, Virtualization maybe, AVX2, etc), and then have the full line of 6 and 8 cores with overclocking enabled and all features enabled only available to the HEDT lineup. They have to drive people to HEDT somehow and we all know how intel loves to artificially segment its product lineup, i expect them to do exactly that this time around.

 

[LTC8K6]

I expect Intel to remain the performance chip and AMD to remain the price/performance chip.

 

[RichUK]

Is coffee lake supposed to improve IPC or is it just going to be increased frequency using 14nm++?

 

[Gundark]

I don't expect it, but if Intel would release 6c/6t i5 I would buy this over AMD ( and I am AMD fan ). i7 was always beyond my buyng power and perceived worthiness. If i5 remain 4c garbage even with ht, I will go Ryzen 2.

 

[LTC8K6]

Is coffee lake supposed to improve IPC or is it just going to be increased frequency using 14nm++?

Yes.