How does a FlatTax with an exemption hurt the poor?

[piasabird]

People say they like the flat tax, but as soon as they think about it they want a progressive tax with exceptions.

 

[Polarhound]

People say they like the flat tax, but as soon as they think about it they want a progressive tax with exceptions.

Then the next day they are out pimping VATs, despite it being nothing more than a highly regressive flat tax rate.

 

[Spungo]

Then the next day they are out pimping VATs, despite it being nothing more than a highly regressive flat tax rate.

Yep. It would be nice for people to at least be consistent.

 

[Matt1970]

People say they like the flat tax, but as soon as they think about it they want a progressive tax with exceptions.

Or even if we did implement a flat tax buy the time we added in all the deductions for lesser incomes and everything to make it more “fair” we would be right back where we started.

 

[jackstar7]

Or even if we did implement a flat tax buy the time we added in all the deductions for lesser incomes and everything to make it more “fair” we would be right back where we started.

You're implying that it is fair without those adjustments. Can you elaborate on that?

 

[Matt1970]

You're implying that it is fair without those adjustments. Can you elaborate on that?

I didn't mean to imply they were fair. We just seem to claim every time we make any adjustment to our tax rates they are in the name of being fair.

 

[GaiaHunter]

While you are discussing rich vs poor, the rich keep being rich, the poor are still poor and the medium class is the one that keeps getting poorer.

The only thing a progressive tax system does is to prevent the poor and medium/working class from getting rich.

 

[Engineer]

People say they like the flat tax, but as soon as they think about it they want a progressive tax with exceptions.

People want a flat tax because they somehow feel that they will be paying a lower amount of tax, period. Once their tax is raised, it's "oh shit" time. I'm amazed at how many people don't know their effective tax rate (have never looked at it) and think that a magical flat tax rate would somehow lower their taxes (assuming revenue neutral that is).

 

[ivwshane]

I was just thinking. If the flat tax is good then does there need to be an exemption for the poor? We all know why, it's because the tax affects them more and takes a bigger bite percentage wise, out of their income.

Well if it affects the poor negatively then logic says it will affect the middle class negatively as well just less so.

Broken down like that, how can anyone see the flat tax as a good idea?

The exemption for the poor is an admission by flat tax proponents that it is a bad alternative to what we have now.

I suspect the lap dogs for the rich would disagree though

 

[jackstar7]

While you are discussing rich vs poor, the rich keep being rich, the poor are still poor and the medium class is the one that keeps getting poorer.

The only thing a progressive tax system does is to prevent the poor and medium/working class from getting rich.

That's an interesting position. What makes you believe it?

 

[wirednuts]

It wouldn't hurt the poor since they already don't pay income tax but it would destroy the middle class. Here's what America's wealth distribution looks like:

looks like 80% of the population is theoretically in poverty. i think we need to change the poverty definitions...

 

[berzerker60]

Or the reality.

(That's wealth, not income, and we base our poverty definitions on income)

 

[piasabird]

This chart is irrelevent. After making a certain amount of money, any further increase does not make one happier. Making rich people pay a larger percentage, is just greed and envy. Hating people because they make more money is morally wrong.

 

[Engineer]

This chart is irrelevent. After making a certain amount of money, any further increase does not make one happier. Making rich people pay a larger percentage, is just greed and envy. Hating people because they make more money is morally wrong.

So you're willing to pay more so we can all be equal?

(because that's exactly what would happen).

 

[Mandres]

I love the "FlatTax" proposals as a perfect example of how people's ignorance and prejudices can be preyed upon to compel them to act outside of their own best interest.

Rush, Hannity and the other republican mouthpieces have been pushing this idea with a catchy name for a while now. All it is is a gigantic tax cut for the rich, and a gigantic tax increase on everyone else. That's it. That's the entirety of the idea, and they've used some insidious methods to sell it...

Do me a favor, picture a welfare recipient in your mind... Is it an overweight black woman with several dirty children living in a free house, talking on her free cellphone, and driving a nicer car than yours? That's not reality, that's the image the propaganda sells in order to make lower-middle-class white people seriously consider the "FlatTax", without stopping to consider how badly it would hurt them. It's all bought and paid for by political action groups sponsored by wealthy folks trying to get the laws changed in their favor, and every time I read some impassioned tirade from a college kid on AT about how we all should pay our fair share and pull ourselves up! I slap my forehead because they don't realize they're putting the gun straight into their own mouth.

 

[nehalem256]

I think the better question is how is a flat tax with an exception a flat tax?

Isn't it really just the same as a graduated progressive tax where you have 2 brackets one of which is 0%?

 

[Incorruptible]

The Flat tax is much better than what we have now. Moron liberals and progressives need to get out of the way.

 

[nextJin]

Why can't we just tax people like liberals honestly want too?

+50% (paid back)
+25% (paid back)
+10% (paid back)
-0%
-2%
-5%
-10%
-15%
-22%
-35%
-50%
-75%
-90%

??

 

[silverpig]

bah, n/m

 

[ivwshane]

The Flat tax is much better than what we have now. Moron liberals and progressives need to get out of the way.

Oh please do explain. I asked you already but I guess you forgot.

Please give a good reason and data to back up your claim. It shoułd be quite easy for you since you've made the claim multiple times now.

 

[piasabird]

If there is an exemption it is not really a flat tax. So what is the point? I have an exemption now.

 

[nehalem256]

Why can't we just tax people like liberals honestly want too?

+50% (paid back)
+25% (paid back)
+10% (paid back)
-0%
-2%
-5%
-10%
-15%
-22%
-35%
-50%
-75%
-90%

??

Haha. That to some extent is how it is done now(without the top 2 or 3 brackets). The goal is to complicate the code so most that people don't understand that is what is going on.

 

[nehalem256]

If there is an exemption it is not really a flat tax. So what is the point? I have an exemption now.

To cut taxes on the rich under the guise of simplifying the tax code.

 

[Engineer]

People want a flat tax because they somehow feel that they will be paying a lower amount of tax, period. Once their tax is raised, it's "oh shit" time. I'm amazed at how many people don't know their effective tax rate (have never looked at it) and think that a magical flat tax rate would somehow lower their taxes (assuming revenue neutral that is).

and this just in...74% of the people polled on Yahoo want a flat tax. They would just die if they really knew what that meant (i.e. their taxes would be raised so that the top taxes could be lowered: i.e. everyone at same rate).



Make a flat tax (100720)
74%
Steeper sliding scale (13674)
10%
Increase the sales tax (4607)
3%
Raise corporate taxes (17782)
13%

 

[Oldgamer]

First off if they are working poor, meaning they work at minimum wage, but are still at poverty level, they pay taxes through their paycheck. Not to mention what they pay in taxes on the things they buy.

Secondly, if they are elderly, like the 80 year old man or woman, living off a 1000.00 a month social security check, they are exempt from paying taxes, because they are at poverty level. In other words they don't make enough most likely to pay rent, and basic expenses to live. You can't get blood out of a turnip folks ok?

Same thing for people who are ill or disabled. If they get a disability check they are exempt from paying taxes on that check, in most cases they don't make enough on disability to live off, barely skirting by.

Why any of you turds think its ok to make them pay taxes, pay out money when they don't even make enough to live as it is, is just beyond me.

Flat Tax rate doesn't work, and yes it hits the middle class really fucking hard. It favors the wealthiest in this country and they will find ways yet again to get around some of the Flat Tax rates, and will also lobby to put more loop holes into the Flat Tax rates, I can guarantee you that.

We need to get rid of the loop holes that exist in our current tax law, and shut down some of the corporate loop holes as well. Let's start with that ok?