How does a person get an in depth understanding of computers etc??

[ruby34]

Hello

I have got some good help from people here in HTPC section and it seems to be a good community here.. and so I have some more questions for you.

I am trying to learn programming and (in general) about how computers work (that means Windows).. I have a few machines (some have Windows 7 others have Windows 8.1)

I am just getting frustrated at not being able to find guides/tutorials out there to help me "get" computers.. maybe the Computer Industry wants people to be ignorant about how to switch on a PC and therefore they can make money from them.. maybe?

I have got alot of ebooks and videos but I never seem to get it.. they always seem to miss things and are never IN DETAIL.. for example I was reading Windows 7 Bible and it it will say things like oh to open a file you go to File > Open.. or to look at network settings you click on the "Network" section.. and I'm like DUH that's obvious.. it tells you the OBVIOUS stuff that you could work out YOURSELF.. and they call it a Bible??

I'm trying to work out an issue I have with an Edimax EW 7612PIn wireless internal card.. and I've updated drivers etc and books will tell you OBVIOUS things like oh click on "update driver".. yea that's OBVIOUS.. but they do not go beyond that.. just tell you stuff which is BASIC and OBVIOUS.

I just want to know.. how did YOU get to learn and understand computers (in depth).. did you read ebooks etc or just go to alot of tech sites.. what did you do??

I'm close to giving up on computers.. with consoles at least the bloody thing WORKS.. there is no problems with it.. maybe I don't have the aptitude to be a programmer/computer person and I should just quit?

 

[BrightCandle]

I experimented. I have never bought a guide to how to use a computer, I just sat in front of it and explored the entire thing, every dialog in the control panel and found out what it did. When I broke windows I reinstalled it. Fundamentally programming and using computers is a lot about trying something.

You need the formal study for a lot of computer based stuff, there is a tonne of books on hardware and software and programming but to learn how you use a computer you just need to play with it.

 

[Anteaus]

Many of us learned via trial by fire. Once you have enough experience, you'll find that many pieces of software follow intrinsic design patterns and you can just sort out whats what. Books are useful, but they are only truly meant to codify knowledge you gain from doing. You can't displace years of experience with a few books.

There are two types of users in this sense.

The first type are users like myself who start really young (I'm talking 6-7) and learn about computers purely from raw interest. You pick up all sorts of small knowledge over time that add up to the overall comprehension you are referring to. By 12, I was reinstalling OSs and building computers. At that point I was also troubleshooting other people's machines. By the time I graduated HS I had a broad working knowledge of PCs in general. I have a friend who self trained and got MSCE on her own and she is now a database admin VP at a major company with zero formal training. She did well purely because she is great at her job, and she didn't get there from a Computers For Dummies book.

The second type are people who only had a passing interest in computers as a user and never got their hands dirty. BrightCandle is absolutely right in this regard. Formal training can really help accelerate you forward and provide alot of the "obvious" knowledge that you missed out on. Proper schooling will start you with the basics and build on that knowledge.

I applaud your efforts. Don't give up. If you are only now getting started then yes you are starting with a handicap of time but I'm sure you have the aptitude for it. There is nothing magical about it.

Most of those books you refer to only talk about the how, and never about the why.

 

[ruby34]

Hello Bright , Anteaus

Thanks for the responses.

I think you both have good points and something that I have experiences for years.. buying (wasting money) on books and finding out afterwards everything was online for FREE if you get me

Yea.. you learn when you "tinker" with things.. I remember I disassembled an OLD computer (in other words so what if I broke it lol) and I LEARNT alot and it gave me confidence.. BUT you have to be CAUTIOUS.

I remember getting a DELL laptop and repartitioning the hard disk.. and then AFTER I found out I had killed the hidden recovery partition.. I could still reinstall Windows but that capability was lost.. I should have ASKED technical support BEFORE and double checked everything.

You can tinker and mess with things but you HAVE to be methodical and cautious.. alot of PC shops would charge for basic things like installing an optical drive or an internal hard disk.. and when you find out how SIMPLE it is and that it takes 5 minutes.. you think I could do this myself!!

I remember asking a person in a PC shop.. when you switch on a NEW computer (no OS) what do you see.. and he said "nothing" as in blank screen etc which is NONSENSE.. you see alot of TEXT information and you can get into the BIOS.. but he did NOT want me to understand how SIMPLE things are.. it's how he makes a living.

If people explain what CPU , RAM etc go with what motherboards etc.. the majority of people can build their own computers.. they just need a bit of help.

 

[pandemonium]

Really, your best tool is knowing the basics of what you're diagnosing or needing to learn more about and searching online. Forums are a great asset when it comes to specified issues that haven't already been covered by others (very likely, it's been covered).

I personally learn(ed) through trial and error, searching online, running benchmarks, etcetera. Very little of the knowledge I've absorbed was through an official capacity or institutional means, primarily - as you noted - due to necessary information missing or not being explained very well, or at all.

PCs have always been about the capability of the end user. They're a great way for people to explore on their own and be in control of many aspects of of the learning process. If you're feeling discouraged by the amount of learning involved, you're likely looking at it too broadly and need to set your focus. It may seem overwhelming when you're looking at the macro scale of things. It does require a certain level of interaction from the individual and not everyone is comfortable with that time investment. The choice is always yours.

Also, this thread belongs more in Computer Help.

I hope you find your answers and are able to reconstitute some intrigue!

 

[dkozloski]

I've been in the field for over sixty years. I started with a good knowledge of electronics learned in U.S. Navy schools. Working from that base, whenever I encountered a problem in an unfamiliar area I researched it until I could overcome it. Since that was long before the internet I did a lot of book reading. Now days people seem to think that all they have to do is let it all flow over them but the basic problem still remains. Pick one facet and focus on it until you master it. It takes time. After fifty years I'm still learning

 

[Wall Street]

Computers are built upon abstraction. The idea of understanding everything about how the computer works is trying to tear through this abstraction. The brilliance of abstraction is that you don't need to understand how everything works to use it.

If you want to learn about programming and operating systems, there are college text books that you can read. However keep in mind that there are four year degrees for computer science and thousands of people have dedicated there career to designing the systems you use every day and one person cannot realistically learn that much knowledge - each piece of the system, from digital electronic engineering, analogue electrical engineering, input/output designs and protocols, silicon process engineering, high level software programming, operating system design, compiler design, software security, computer language design and networking would each take decades to master and are continually evolving.

 

[ruby34]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think you had good points.. I agree I don't think anyone can be an expert on EVERYTHING computer related you would have to be a freak or something.. I look at stuff like Networking and it just gives me a headache.

I think I will try to learn the basics... and yes with caution mess about on the computer and see if that helps.. but reading books on computers hardware does help me.. but it's the bits that are missing or I don't get that I will have to find a way to understand.

I think when you have a specific question and you have a good forum like this then you DO find answers.. for example I asked question about digital channels and scaling and I got an answer which clarified everything I wanted and after that I do "get" it.

I think I should stick to what I DO get and then work outwards and try to fill in the gaps or holes... anyway thanks for the help!!

 

[silicon]

Read and learn and when you encounter problems post questions and research the problem. At the same time learn how date is stored on a hard d rive, how a cpu works etc. To know instinctively what makes it tick is impossible....read and learn. Don't forget to use a grounding strap when handling electronic components.

 

[ruby34]

Thanks silicon.

I think you're correct that you should try to learn the basic fundamentals of stuff.. like how a hard disk is constructed etc.. and yes I do have an anti static wrist strap.. I just keep touching a bare unpainted metal part of the case too.. but I need to understand that a bit better.

For example if your wrist strap is attacthed to a metal paperclip is that sufficient to get rid of the static or does it have to be attached to something that is "earthed"??

 

[Loki726]

I just want to know.. how did YOU get to learn and understand computers (in depth).. did you read ebooks etc or just go to alot of tech sites.. what did you do??

I mixed self study with formal education.

For self study I read as much as possible, of the most detailed material possible. I used the information that I learned to build increasingly complex projects. These in turn exposed me to new problems that required more research to discover solutions. I learned how to read program source code, design specifications, patents, and research papers, and read through the sources of open source and freely available software and hardware designs. You would be amazed at what is freely available today.

For formal education I spent years earning studying electrical engineering, computer architecture, discrete mathematics, solid state physics, and computer science. Formal education isn't for everyone, but there is no easier way to learn a complex topic than directly from an expert.

The most important lesson that I learned from this is that it helps tremendously to have a specific goal in mind that you can get truly excited about. My goal has been to make a meaningful contribution to the design of a high performance general purpose processor, and keeping this in mind has made developing a plan to accumulate the required knowledge and experience straightforward.

 

[KWiklund]

I learned a great deal from self-teaching and from books before I learned anything in school, or later, in university. The best way to learn, I think will be a mix of self-study and formal education (regardless of your education, you *will* need to be able to learn on your own).

That said, how you go about things will depend on a great deal on what you want to learn. Even something as seemingly specific as "programming" requires your goals to be focused.

1)Formal education is probably the best way in many cases, since you will have the benefit of your instructor's knowledge as well as that of your classmates. Being able to ask you instructor to clarify some point really is pretty helpful.

2)If you want to understand programming, have a look at the syllabi of various colleges / universities and see what books they use for introductory CS classes. Also look for books on data structures and algorithms. Python is considered by many to be a good language for educational purposes. You might also want to look at some of the books from APress as well O'Reilly to see what suits your needs.

2)If you really want to understand how computers work at a *fundamental* level, you might be interested in books on computer organization. Mano and Kine's book is pretty much the standard text here and takes you through elementary logic to basic data paths / microprocessors. There are also many inexpensive kits like TI Launchpad, Beaglebone, Raspberry Pi, etc that might be relevant.

3)For more general "computer use", I'd possibly look into what your community college has to offer. Either to see if there's anything you can take, or to simply raid their syllabi for paths to self-study.

 

[inachu]

I've been messing with them since I was 13 years old.

Messing around with one lets you learn on your own time on what the pc and can not do.
Watch other play with it.
After I got good with my Timex Sinclaire then I moved onto the TI 99/4a computer then onto the Tandy Model 3 and 4 then onto the commodore 64 and 128 hardware.

Then from there I branches out into all the midi hardware.
Then onto an 8088 then a 286 then 386 then 486 and so on.

Even before the 8088 my mother would tell me her boss is inviting me to mess with his pc and then tell me what I think of it. Back in the 80's tandy really was the best business pc around. those advertisements on TV Commodore VS TANDY LOL!!!!

Ahhh the good ole days. I sure do miss Jump Man Jr.

 

[videogames101]

eventually you just look at the documentation, keep diving until you find what you want - but this works best when you already have a broad understanding, not sure how you get that except years of learning

 

[sm625]

It takes a long time. Especially with networking. And it is further complicated by the fact that Windows networking is extremely buggy with all sorts of random errors that have plagued it throughout its history. I have so many horry stories of off the wall problems it boggles my mind. For example, I would build 3 identical systems and all three of them would have random odd quirks of varying severity. Recently I had to clone one of those machines and change the product key because it just would not connect to the network anymore. Since they are the exact same hardware it was luckily a very easy fix. For the moment they all work ok. One of the machines will not connect at login, but I have a batch script that does crazy stuff like disable and re-enable the network adapter and that fixes it. But the inescapable fact is that windows is just garbage. I have unix systems that have run for 25 years and they NEVER have networking problems like these. It "just works".

 

[hdecharn]

Computer Organization and Design is a good entry point for learning how computers work. Digital design and Computer Architecture is good too (I really enjoyed it), but more focused on circuitry.
For an in depth understanding of microprocessors, see Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach and Modern Processor Design. They give a comprehensive view of how modern microprocessors achieve such level of performances.

To understand how operating systems work, read Operating Systems Concepts, but only after having read Computer Organization and Design. And I think it'll be enough…

For networks, I'm can't recommend books.

HD

 

[hdecharn]

For more infos., read Real World Tech, IEEE Micro articles, and thesis.

 

[hdecharn]

And to understand GPUs, read Giesen's blog and Visual Computing Systems course.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I've been in the field for over sixty years. I started with a good knowledge of electronics learned in U.S. Navy schools. Working from that base, whenever I encountered a problem in an unfamiliar area I researched it until I could overcome it. Since that was long before the internet I did a lot of book reading. Now days people seem to think that all they have to do is let it all flow over them but the basic problem still remains. Pick one facet and focus on it until you master it. It takes time. After fifty years I'm still learning

US Navy electronics technician?

 

[BurnItDwn]

When I was 4 My dad got me writing little basic programs on an apple 2e. Have had an interest in computers since then.

 

[inachu]

When I was 4 My dad got me writing little basic programs on an apple 2e. Have had an interest in computers since then.

That must have been 1987

 

[polarmystery]

Time and patience...

(The obvious answer, but that's how I got my understanding / comprehension)

<- Electronics / Computer Engineer

 

[piasabird]

Join a group, read hardware articles, Take some classes at a college. Build your own computer. Read some books.

There is a big difference between someone who can order computer parts and assemble a working computer compared to someone that really has an in-depth knowledge of computer hardware design and advanced networking techniques.

The computer field is so vast and it changes so fast that no one can really know it all. It keeps changing and expanding.

 

[Data-Medics]

The real method comes down to the following:

1. Build
2. Break
3. Research
4. Repair
5. Repeat

In any computer field you're going to learn through doing, not just reading. It's like learning to speak another language. You can't do it through a book, you have to put in the practice and effort.

Start by building your own computer, learning the basic components and what works together, which RAM works in a specific motherboard, etc. Next when you run into specific issues, do specific research on that problem. There's a ton of information out there, you just need to be asking the right questions.

Remember, no one knows everything about computers, NO ONE! There's a million little specialties out there and some very skilled people in each specialty. Personally I chose to work in data recovery, you might chose something else like programming.

Don't expect to find a resource that explains everything. If you're getting generic answers to your questions from a book, it's because it's a book just covering the basics and can't get into depth on every topic.

When you get stuck and can't find the answers, then ask on the forums such as this one, or Tom's Hardware, Technibble, etc. The information is there and there are people willing to share, you just have to know enough of the basics to know what to ask. If you ask a dumb question like: "my hard drive isn't working, how can I fix it?" your not going to get any useful answers because you didn't provide enough background information to go on. A better question would be: "I have a WD model xxxx hard drive, that shows WD500-xyz as it's ID in BIOS and 0 LBA as capacity what can I do to get my data back?". Then you might get some useful responses.

And learn your Acronyms and what they mean. If you don't know what RAM, ROM, HDD, LBA, etc. refer to and are too lazy to google them so you can ask an intelligent question, you don't deserve the answers.

Just my two cents.

 

[BurnItDwn]

That must have been 1987

Well, he bought the computer in 1984 when I was 4, but, maybe he didnt really try much with programming until I was 7 in 1987