How does gay marriage hurt you ?

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: loki8481

I in no way said it infringes on my rights. I said it infringes on my belief system and forces me to recognize something that I do not believe in, as legally valid.

so would Muslim's have a case if they wanted to get a ban passed forbidding people to eat pork? that infringes on their belief system. and what about cows? that probably offends the Hindus.

where does it end? banning something because it conflicts with your personal religious beliefs opens up a huge slippery slope.

Speaking of slippery slope:

I think being two men or two women are being married, hell, we can just bring back two women and one man, or THREE women and one man, or even...gasp!...FOUR women and TWO men, and for the heck of it, FOUR women, TWO men, ONE dog, and TWO cats. Anything goes once you start distroying the basis of marrage.

polygamy = both awsome and endorsed by the bible

the animal argument can be discounted on account of the fact that animals can't give consent

 

[drpootums]

what about when i get older if i want 2 wives and they both consent? there's nothing wrong with that then is there? ...*sarcastically*jeez, were going straight back to the Jim Crow laws...

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: drpootums
what about when i get older if i want 2 wives and they both consent?

I don't see a problem with it. if you can find 2 women that want to marry you at the age of 60, more power to you. doesn't affect my life any.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: drpootums
(snipped by cerb for space)

Originally posted by: CrowBarr

Originally posted by: drpootums
Old testament??? Romans is in the new testament...and it says homosexuality is a sin. You should read Romans (and if u are having trouble finding it, remember, it's in the NEW testament).

I know i'm a sinner, but that's why Jesus died for me. I was forgiven, and in his eye's i am without sin. Homosexuals obviously arent christian, and so they do not ask for forgiveness from god, and thus they are going to Hell in a handbasket...

And old testament laws like that were distroyed when Jesus came back. Not all, but the things like that and making sacrifices to the temple were no longer needed because Jesus distroyed the need for those things.

And for the passages where Jesus said they were wrong:

abortion: the 5th comandment="thou shalt not murder" Abortion is murder because the baby is alive during the time of the abortion (the cardiovascular system and the nervious system have formed within the first trimester) and it can feel pain. Imagine what it would feel like to have the back of your head cut open and have your brains sucked out with a straw?

homosexuality: 1st Corinthians 6:9 "no homosexuals shall enter the kingdom of heaven"
Romans 1:26 "That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so rechly deserved"

Who are you to be judging me? I am forgiven through my savior Jesus Christ, how can anyone be against me if God is with me? John 7:24 "Stop judging with mere appearences and make a righteous judgement"

I will give you the benefit of the doubt as to the fact that you are intelligent. Taking into account that you Quoted Corithians 6:9, let's run thru that briefly...

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

Not going into 6:10... which also mentions thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers.
If you're going to wax religious, at least go the whole 9. This includes alot of things that everyday people are guilty of (drink much or at all?). And that's not even to go into the fact that the Bible itself is a translation, and that beliefs are always based more on interperetation.

If you are of the belief that Jesus died to save mankind from sin, then it was for all mankind and all sin, not just you and yours.

EDIT: And as a side note, You asked "Who are you to be judging me?". Well...I ask "Who are YOU to be judging anyone else?"

John 7:24 "Judge with a righteous judgement"

(extra endquote because I screwed up somewhere else and got one more indentation in)
20 The crowd ansered, "You are possessed! Who is trying to kill you?? 21 Jesus answered and said to them, "I performed one work and all of you are amazed 22 becuase of it. Moses gave you circumcision--not that it came from Moses but rather from the patriarchs--and you circumcise a man on the sabbath. 23 If a man can recieve circumcision on a sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because I made a whole person well on the sabbath? 24 Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."
John 7:20-24

I see nothing wrong with judgeing against people because they are sinning.

Ah, so you have been given the clairvoyance to know who is sinning and what their sins are, the divine authority to judge others, and knowledge that you are righteous?

And yes, Jesus died for everyone, but that doesnt do you any good unless you repent. I ask for the forgiveness of my sins everynight,

So, you fear the consequences of doing otherwise?

and it's impossible to comit a deliberate sin towards god (homosexuality), not repent, and still be a christian.

OK, now we get the heart of...OK, one of the matters. How many people do you know who are homosexual? How many of them consider their sexuality a deliberate choice on their part?

There is nothing wrong with drinking, it's being DRUNK! What about Jesus's first mericle? He turned water into wine. If there was a problem with alcohol, i dont think he'd be promoting it. And by the way, i'm underage, so i dont drink.

Originally posted by: loki8481

I in no way said it infringes on my rights. I said it infringes on my belief system and forces me to recognize something that I do not believe in, as legally valid.

so would Muslim's have a case if they wanted to get a ban passed forbidding people to eat pork? that infringes on their belief system. and what about cows? that probably offends the Hindus.

where does it end? banning something because it conflicts with your personal religious beliefs opens up a huge slippery slope.

Speaking of slippery slope:

I think being two men or two women are being married, hell, we can just bring back two women and one man, or THREE women and one man, or even...gasp!...FOUR women and TWO men, and for the heck of it, FOUR women, TWO men, ONE dog, and TWO cats. Anything goes once you start distroying the basis of marrage.

Sounds good to me. Why should THE STATE care one way or the other? You an care, and don't refer to 'husband', 'wife', etc. when dealing with polygamists, polyganists, and homosexuals. I just don't see why it should matter to the state.

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
you'd think followers of a religion that essentially worship a bastard child would be more tolerant

That was definitally the lowest thing i've ever seen on these forums...you liberals really have started to go even below your standards. I see no problem in debating, but that crosses the line.

Why? It's true. You believe your savior to have been concieved outside of marriage. Hence, bastard.

 

[wjgollatz]

My point about getting a license is that the state must first grant me permission. The "right" to marriage is FAR unlike the other rights - such as the bill of rights. If I want to speak out, I do not need to ask the state for permission, or go through a state office to exercise the 1st Amendment - nor do I need photo ID and to pay a fee. Calling a marriage a contract - well then - *all* forms of marriage should be allowed if its only a contract. Gettign a license to marry - is like a driver's license. The marriage license is not a contract, its permission from the state to get married. Some states require a blood test before getting married - so how in heaven's name is marriage a right? A Driver's license - its permisison to use the roads. In fact you can only have access to this "right" during certain office hours - with certain state officials.

Only religious sects have their own separate recognition of marriages - and even those sects have their own rules for marriage.

My point it that society has been defining marriage for a very long time under particular guidelines, and that marriage has never been a right. Marriages originated within religious sects (or so I believe) and even they have their own strict guidelines. And now, there is a debate within our society to permanently define or limit marriage - and that is no different than what has already been going on.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

All I can say is this: We CAN'T let gay people screw up the institution of Marriage!

(That job belongs to the STRAIGHT people and boy are they GOOD at it!)

Jason

Originally posted by: espressoman

Originally posted by: pdqcarrera

It effects me personally because I believe homosexual behavior is immoral and that marriage is by definition the moral cojoining of a man and woman into one sexual entity. The whole foundational purpose behind marriage is to bring man and woman together as one sexually.

I don't want to see the institution of marriage diluted any more than it already has been. I'd like to see all 50 states act as one society in this matter and adopt a universal definition of marriage. However, if this isn't possible because some states have a different majority viewpoint that's OK by me ... it's democracy in action.

That isn't a valid arguement, because as it stands, 52% off all marriages now FAIL. Why not just ban divorce? I bet murder rates would skyrocket if that happen.

The foundation of marriage is not about sex, as you seem to think. Heck, I'm sure most married couples don't even have sex... After you've been with the same person for a while it kind of get boring! *chuckles* Marriage is about having faith and commitment in one another... and whether it's man and a woman, a woman and a woman, or man and man, it shouldn't matter. Marriage is about coming together.

And democracy has nothing to do with keeping a majority.... it means every individual has a voice. If you want the majority to have a voice, be a communist or a nazi... I bet if you had people voting in the south whether or not to keep blacks as slaves, it would probably win out! Do you think that's democracy?

 

[VTrider]

It's amazing that some of you posses the intelligence to even get online

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: VTrider
It's amazing that some of you posses the intelligence to even get online

I know. Sad isn't it?

it's impossible to comit a deliberate sin towards god (homosexuality), not repent, and still be a christian.

Not all homosexuals are christian.

Excuse me for putting this rather bluntly, but as an athiest\agnostic the whole "god says its wrong, so it's so" arguement is pathetic.

 

[qarlandZ]

Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: qarlandZ
Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

Being against same sex marriages does not mean somone's a homophobe.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: qarlandZ
Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

Being against same sex marriages does not mean somone's a homophobe.

What does it mean? You think homosexuality is deviant, a virus that must be stopped. Does that not sound like a hate mongering sentiment?

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
All I can say is this: We CAN'T let gay people screw up the institution of Marriage!
(That job belongs to the STRAIGHT people and boy are they GOOD at it!)

Just because other circumstances devalue marriage doesn't mean same sex marriage should be added to the mix to further devalue it.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
All I can say is this: We CAN'T let gay people screw up the institution of Marriage!
(That job belongs to the STRAIGHT people and boy are they GOOD at it!)

Just because other circumstances devalue marriage doesn't mean same sex marriage should be added to the mix to further devalue it.

See the term "devaluing" sounds like you equate marriage to currency... the value of marriage is determined by the the people in it. For instance, the value of your marriage is for you to judge only. Even if I knew you, your wife, family, arrangement, relationship I still wouldn't feel qualified in judging your marriage. That's totally up to you to assign value to it.

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: qarlandZ
Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

Being against same sex marriages does not mean somone's a homophobe.

What does it mean? You think homosexuality is deviant, a virus that must be stopped. Does that not sound like a hate mongering sentiment?

I never said that homosexuality is a virus that must be stopped. There are valid and logical arguments against same sex marriages that are not based on irrational homophobic feelings or bigotry. Dismissimg them as such is a cop out.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: jjzelinski

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: qarlandZ
Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

Being against same sex marriages does not mean somone's a homophobe.

What does it mean? You think homosexuality is deviant, a virus that must be stopped. Does that not sound like a hate mongering sentiment?

I never said that homosexuality is a virus that must be stopped. There are valid and logical arguments against same sex marriages that are not based on irrational homophobic feelings or bigotry. Dismissimg them as such is a cop out.

almost 5 pages of posts and I haven't heard one of those logical arguments yet.

Do share, please.

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
See the term "devaluing" sounds like you equate marriage to currency... the value of marriage is determined by the the people in it. For instance, the value of your marriage is for you to judge only. Even if I knew you, your wife, family, arrangement, relationship I still wouldn't feel qualified in judging your marriage. That's totally up to you to assign value to it.

Hetrosexual marriage does has value since marriage and family are the building blocks of civilization. It isn't a social construct. Without it there would not be civilization. I do not think that same sex marriages will destroy heterosexual marriage and families, but it does more harm than good.

polm, I have already posted logical arguments against same sex marriage, but you are welcome to discuss how they are illogical or any fallacies you may find.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
See the term "devaluing" sounds like you equate marriage to currency... the value of marriage is determined by the the people in it. For instance, the value of your marriage is for you to judge only. Even if I knew you, your wife, family, arrangement, relationship I still wouldn't feel qualified in judging your marriage. That's totally up to you to assign value to it.

Hetrosexual marriage does has value since marriage and family are the building blocks of civilization. It isn't a social construct. Without it there would not be civilization. I do not think that same sex marriages will destroy heterosexual marriage and families, but it does more harm than good.

polm, I have already posted logical arguments against same sex marriage, but you are welcome to discuss how they are illogical or any fallacies you may find.

my point remains, and continues to remain, that if your logic does not support the case that allowing Gay Marriage somehow harms those who wish to keep marriage as an institution strictly for a man and woman, then your argument, to me is baseless. There is absolutely no evidence to maintain that Gay Marriage will have a negative impact on Marriage as a whole.

I cannot be swayed with arguments that describe the Ban on Gay Marriage as some effort to protect the foundations of marriage, because I truly beleive that the success or failure of a marriage lies soley in the hands of the couple.

So if your logical argument is that Gay Marriage will have a negative impact the success or failure rate of all marriages is baseless to me. Because to accept that would mean that a Ban on Divorce would make logical sence as well. And I'm sure we both agree that a Ban on Divorcce, though seemingly logical, is actually rediculous in reality.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Q]Hetrosexual marriage does has value since marriage and family are the building blocks of civilization. It isn't a social construct. Without it there would not be civilization. I do not think that same sex marriages will destroy heterosexual marriage and families, but it does more harm than good.

I hate to break to you pal, but this is the 21st century, most of us no longer forage for fruits & berry's, nor wear olive branch underwear.

Marriage is far from perfect (45-50% divorece rate). I don't think homosexuals can effect it one way or another.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: jjzelinski

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: qarlandZ
Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

Being against same sex marriages does not mean somone's a homophobe.

What does it mean? You think homosexuality is deviant, a virus that must be stopped. Does that not sound like a hate mongering sentiment?

I never said that homosexuality is a virus that must be stopped. There are valid and logical arguments against same sex marriages that are not based on irrational homophobic feelings or bigotry. Dismissimg them as such is a cop out.

almost 5 pages of posts and I haven't heard one of those logical arguments yet.

Do share, please.

Dude, this is TOTALLY P&N neffing.

 

[jjzelinski]

What the hell are saying? Slow down and try it again.

 

[cquark]

My point about getting a license is that the state must first grant me permission.

No, the state doesn't grant you permission. The license is between you and the person you marry.

The existence of a registration fee for marriage no more implies that consentual legal contracts aren't a right, any more than the fact that you have to register ownership of major property items like houses, cars, and boats implies there is no right to own private property.

Some states require a blood test before getting married

Yes, there are some ugly remnants of the early 20th century Eugenics movement still in our laws, but the existence of one unconstitutional discrimination doesn't imply that another such type of discrimination is justified.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: drpootums
Speaking of slippery slope:

I think being two men or two women are being married, hell, we can just bring back two women and one man, or THREE women and one man, or even...gasp!...FOUR women and TWO men, and for the heck of it, FOUR women, TWO men, ONE dog, and TWO cats. Anything goes once you start distroying the basis of marrage.

How is this in any way analogous?

If you pets can read and write, then maybe we could talk about them entering into legal contracts, but in reality, they can't, so there's no analogy there at all.

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Hair is designed to retain warmth, in our society we now tend to depend on clothing of our construction for warmth. Does that makes clothing immoral since it defies our present state of physiological evolution? The same can be said of finger nails, etc. What I'm getting at is that you're justifying your position of denying equal rights to a segment of our popultion on the basis of evolutionary necessity; we weren't designed for anal sex. Well we were designed to ride in air planes for 18 hours either, does that make it immoral?

That's a pretty big stretch. Almost as stupid as whoever it was that suggested the left side of the road thing.

I understood it...ok, if you are driving on the left side of the road it may be ok for a while, but sooner or later you are going to crash and burn (go to hell).

And speaking of big stretch, wat about interracial marrages. I dont think comparing someones race/skin color to their sexuality is right.

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: VTrider
It's amazing that some of you posses the intelligence to even get online

I know. Sad isn't it?

it's impossible to comit a deliberate sin towards god (homosexuality), not repent, and still be a christian.

Not all homosexuals are christian.

Excuse me for putting this rather bluntly, but as an athiest\agnostic the whole "god says its wrong, so it's so" arguement is pathetic.

God says it's wrong so that's enough for me. If your mind says it's ok, then good for you, i respect your beliefs and you should respect mine. And i think the whole "it's the same as interracial marrage, heck, why dont we bring back the ol' jim crow laws" arguement is VERY pathetic.

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: qarlandZ
Gay marriage hurt me because it gave the homophobes in Ohio and Florida an incentive to vote... thus re-electing MOFO Bush

Being against same sex marriages does not mean somone's a homophobe.

What does it mean? You think homosexuality is deviant, a virus that must be stopped. Does that not sound like a hate mongering sentiment?

I'm against queer marrage, and i'm not a homophobe. I'm not afraid of them, i just hate their sin.