How efficacious (REALLY) are yoga, meditation etc. ?

[OinkBoink]

I see lots of claims by the practitioners of these methods that they can cure X,Y,Z diseases. I want to know how much of it is true, how much is false, and how much of it is a placebo occurrence.

Can anyone point me to some good credible evidence of the efficacy of these techniques?

Also, does anyone have any personal experience with this stuff?

 

[lxskllr]

It can help focus your mind, and strengthen your body, so illnesses that are helped by doing that will improve. Otherwise, no.

 

[OinkBoink]

Well, various practitioners make various claims. Claims of cures have been associated with diseases like cancer, HIV, diabetes, liver problems etc. Also, brain maladies like depressions, anxiety etc.

These are rather tall claims. Many of them (as you can see from the diseases they claim to cure) are outright unbelievable.

 

[OinkBoink]

What is different about "Yoga" compared to concentration and physical exercises designed in a rigorous and scientific manner?

 

[lxskllr]

These are rather tall claims. Many of them (as you can see from the diseases they claim to cure) are outright unbelievable.

I agree. If an action can't be shown, then they're saying it's magic, and I don't believe in magic. Brain issues are plausible, but results will vary by person. I don't think you could make a blanket statement that yoga will help anxiety, though it may for a particular case.

 

[lxskllr]

What is different about "Yoga" compared to concentration and physical exercises designed in a rigorous and scientific manner?

It's mystical and Indian, so it must be better than simply concentrating :^D

It's just a method to a goal. For mental stuff, "magic" might very well work if you believe in it. Other people might lift weights, and be reflective. Whatever works.

 

[Zorander]

It's a mind and body exercise that allows you to focus your mind, let go of 'negative' thoughts, improve body balance, etc. It is a very good exercise, in a Yin manner of speaking, and I do practise this once a week. I value its ability to bring ease to my self as well as teaching me to handle pressures in life better.

But curing diseases? You should see a doctor or specialist for that.

 

[OinkBoink]

It's mystical and Indian, so it must be better than simply concentrating :^D

It's just a method to a goal. For mental stuff, "magic" might very well work if you believe in it. Other people might lift weights, and be reflective. Whatever works.

"Whatever works". That's good if you're an individual. As an individual, it doesn't matter if something helps you really or on the basis of the placebo effect.

The problem with the placebo effect is, once it helps someone, maybe because they took a homeopathic pill or maybe because of something else; some of these people then go out and claim that the techniques they used were indeed really efficacious (as opposed to being efficacious due to the placebo effect).

 

[lxskllr]

The problem with the placebo effect is, once it helps someone, maybe because they took a homeopathic pill or maybe because of something else; some of these people then go out and claim that the techniques they used were indeed really efficacious (as opposed to being efficacious due to the placebo effect).

They have the right to do that. Others should always be on guard against bullshit. Aside from well meaning shills, there's also plenty of fraudsters ready to take the money of the gullible. I see no harm in things like yoga. The worst thing that'll happen is nothing, but one will likely improve, even if their specific illness doesn't improve.

Paying money for ineffective, or even harmful "medicines" is worse, though I suppose an argument can be made for a placebo if it works for that person. It's a sleazy way to make money though, and it encourages unscientific thinking which is bad for everyone.

 

[OinkBoink]

It's a mind and body exercise that allows you to focus your mind, let go of 'negative' thoughts, improve body balance, etc. It is a very good exercise, in a Yin manner of speaking, and I do practise this once a week. I value its ability to bring ease to my self as well as teaching me to handle pressures in life better.

Again, my point is, what is the difference between Yoga and the kind of exercises you might be recommended by a physical therapist or a psychologist (for mind maladies) designed on the basis of years of research?

There may be exercises within the realm of Yoga which are efficacious, but does this extend to everything contained within it?

What about the notion of the human body having energy disks or chakras?

 

[Zorander]

Again, my point is, what is the difference between Yoga and the kind of exercises you might be recommended by a physical therapist or a psychologist (for mind maladies) designed on the basis of years of research?

Can you provide specific examples on exercises you are comparing against? A lot of moves in Yoga are used in many strengthening exercises (bridge, lunges, etc). A lot of the stretches involved in Yoga are also legitimately used in many post-exercise stretches. The moves in Yoga are not exclusive from other exercises.

What sets it apart is this bit: Mind & body connection. A lot of moves in Yoga, for lack of better words, put the practitioner through mental pressure. The practice focuses on letting go of these thoughts and bringing the mind from whereever it had been wandering (work, family, love, etc) back into the room (pure focus). IME, a focused mind is always better than a distracted mind that wanders everywhere but what actually counts. For example, a clear mind can focus on a problem's solution than simply worrying.

I view it simply as a general well-being exercise. If there is a deep underlying issue (injuries, hormonal imbalance, etc), there are other medications or treatments that one should go for before going for Yoga.

Regards.

 

[Sulaco]

"If Yoga had been invented in Ohio, it would be called 'Stretching' "

 

[Kadarin]

Well, Christians are afraid of yoga, so they must be doing something right.

 

[Braznor]

OP, since we both are Indians, permit me to ask you this question....


Which party will you be voting for in 2014 general elections in India?

 

[OinkBoink]

OP, since we both are Indians, permit me to ask you this question....


Which party will you be voting for in 2014 general elections in India?

:hmm:

Why?

 

[OinkBoink]

Can you provide specific examples on exercises you are comparing against? A lot of moves in Yoga are used in many strengthening exercises (bridge, lunges, etc). A lot of the stretches involved in Yoga are also legitimately used in many post-exercise stretches. The moves in Yoga are not exclusive from other exercises.

What sets it apart is this bit: Mind & body connection. A lot of moves in Yoga, for lack of better words, put the practitioner through mental pressure. The practice focuses on letting go of these thoughts and bringing the mind from whereever it had been wandering (work, family, love, etc) back into the room (pure focus). IME, a focused mind is always better than a distracted mind that wanders everywhere but what actually counts. For example, a clear mind can focus on a problem's solution than simply worrying.

I view it simply as a general well-being exercise. If there is a deep underlying issue (injuries, hormonal imbalance, etc), there are other medications or treatments that one should go for before going for Yoga.

Regards.

As I said, there may be exercises within the realm of Yoga (or under the Yoga label) which are efficacious.

My point is, physical and mental exercises, or a combination of both, can be studied and deemed to be efficacious. Some of these exercises may be a part of Yoga and some may not be. As such, these exercises can be provided by a scientific practitioner even without the Yoga label.

When it comes to Yoga per se, there seem to be some mystical elements involved. Things like chakras for instance.

 

[Juddog]

Well, various practitioners make various claims. Claims of cures have been associated with diseases like cancer, HIV, diabetes, liver problems etc. Also, brain maladies like depressions, anxiety etc.

These are rather tall claims. Many of them (as you can see from the diseases they claim to cure) are outright unbelievable.

Over the years I've met a lot of different people that use Yoga, have watched Yoga videos, and have read through a few Yoga books. I have never once seen anybody claim that Yoga cures AIDS, liver problems, cancer, or diabetes.

Anybody who makes such a ridiculous claim is obviously a fraudster. I don't see why anybody with at least a modicum of intelligence would believe something like that.

 

[Braznor]

:hmm:

Why?

Because you already know who I'm voting for. :sneaky:

 

[OinkBoink]

Because you already know who I'm voting for. :sneaky:

But why ask? And why in the context of this particular question?

 

[Juddog]

As I said, there may be exercises within the realm of Yoga (or under the Yoga label) which are efficacious.

My point is, physical and mental exercises, or a combination of both, can be studied and deemed to be efficacious. Some of these exercises may be a part of Yoga and some may not be. As such, these exercises can be provided by a scientific practitioner even without the Yoga label.

When it comes to Yoga per se, there seem to be some mystical elements involved. Things like chakras for instance.

You could say the same thing about Tai Chi. There are real world benefits from practicing it, but the goal of it is to get the chi flowing through the body and unobstruct any blockages to the energy paths.

In India, the equivalent is prāṇa, which is the life force that flows through your body. The end result is the same; you're stretching your body so that blood can flow better and you feel good. The brain works better when blood is pumping through it, so you feel good mentally and your body feels good physically. It's a win / win. It's never going to cure AIDS or diabetes or fix your liver though (obviously).

 

[OinkBoink]

You could say the same thing about Tai Chi. There are real world benefits from practicing it, but the goal of it is to get the chi flowing through the body and unobstruct any blockages to the energy paths.

In India, the equivalent is prāṇa, which is the life force that flows through your body. The end result is the same; you're stretching your body so that blood can flow better and you feel good. The brain works better when blood is pumping through it, so you feel good mentally and your body feels good physically. It's a win / win. It's never going to cure AIDS or diabetes or fix your liver though (obviously).

And is there any credible evidence of this life force (be it chi or prana)?

 

[hans030390]

I don't have any specific links, but studies have shown that meditation can (at least slightly) change your brain. There are many, many subjective reports that it helps with depression, anxiety, helps one focus better, etc. At the very least, it acts as an exercise for your brain that you can apply throughout your life in many other subtle ways.

 

[Juddog]

And is there any credible evidence of this life force? Be it chi or prana?

To have credible evidence of a life force, you'd have to have a definite meaning of what life is.

For example, are the super-large viruses popping up considered alive?
http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/03/a-virus-so-large-it-gets-viruses/

Asking for a credible proof of life force, or chi, or prāṇa, is the equivalent of asking proof of the spirit. Put simply, there is no proof, and most likely there never will be.

That being said, when they invented Yoga, and Tai Chi, they didn't have the modern medical knowledge that we have today, so they needed some way to describe what was happening.

What it boils down to is that these exercises stretch your muscles and make you feel good. Actual medicine should be left to doctors.

 

[OinkBoink]

I don't have any specific links, but studies have shown that meditation can (at least slightly) change your brain. There are many, many subjective reports that it helps with depression, anxiety, helps one focus better, etc. At the very least, it acts as an exercise for your brain that you can apply throughout your life in many other subtle ways.

Yes, I've seen researchers talking about such stuff as well. I want to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff, i.e. real claims from pseudoscience.

"Meditation" seems to be a mental exercise. Sure it may help the brain. But once you lump it with things like a life force, and all sorts of mystical stuff, the list of claims that can be made are potentially endless.

 

[Braznor]

But why ask? And why in the context of this particular question?

Nothing to do with the thread topic at hand. I'm just naturally curious.