How high can gas go?

[mchammer187]

I think you guys are really unrealistic as to how much money exxon is really getting per gallon

even if you were to exclude their profits entirely we are still looking at greater han $3 a gallon and still greater than $3.50 per gallon cutting their profits by 20% (10%->8%)

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html

Refining Costs and Profits : $.37 per gallon

shave 20% off that as someone suggested and now gas costs a whole 8 cents cheaper per gallon so their profit margins are 8% instead of 10%

and remember of that $.37 it still costs SOMETHING to refine it

now your gas is 3.69 instead of 3.77 are you gonna stop complaining about exxon at this point?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: TallBill
Car companies need to stop selling 30 mpg cars as "high fuel efficiency" when they have the technology for 70+ And consumers need to learn to buy a smaller car.

could not agree more.
i see Chevy? commercials on tv, we have 8 models that get 30 mpg or more!
30 mpg is not good u morons. i had a mid 90's civic that got 40 mpg.

By today's standards, 30 mpg is competitive. Sure, it doesnt compare to earlier automobiles gas mileage, like your older civic, but cars today are much bigger than they were in the 80's and 90's. And they keep getting bigger every year.

From a quick google search, a 1995 2 door Civic weighed 2231 lbs and today's 2008 civic weighs 2875 lbs.

ford falcons built in the 60's posted 30MPG.

wtf!

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Dave Mcowen is already crazy

Self delusion, it's a powerful thing.

I think it's time for your straight-jacket and helmet, Slew Foot.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: TallBill
Car companies need to stop selling 30 mpg cars as "high fuel efficiency" when they have the technology for 70+ And consumers need to learn to buy a smaller car.

could not agree more.
i see Chevy? commercials on tv, we have 8 models that get 30 mpg or more!
30 mpg is not good u morons. i had a mid 90's civic that got 40 mpg.

By today's standards, 30 mpg is competitive. Sure, it doesnt compare to earlier automobiles gas mileage, like your older civic, but cars today are much bigger than they were in the 80's and 90's. And they keep getting bigger every year.

From a quick google search, a 1995 2 door Civic weighed 2231 lbs and today's 2008 civic weighs 2875 lbs.

ford falcons built in the 60's posted 30MPG.

wtf!

How about the first Civic in 75'? What was it, like 60mpg, or so? I forget exactly, but it was definately better than a pathetic 30mpg.

 

[WildHorse]

Some guys on here are looking toward a "future" of $4 / gal???

The widely prevailing price here for regular unleaded (87 octane) has been $4.23 per gallon for a while.

I gassed up tonight where I found one of those discount places at $4.03 per gal, which was a great deal for here. Santa Barbara California.

 

[ChaoZ]

Was $4.19/gallon this morning.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
I'd say about 5-6 and we'd either bomb Saudi Arabia or kick all the tree huggers aside and start our own oil and refineries.

believe it or not, but the united states has excess refinery capacity.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Aharami
sorry but I dont want to pay 600K for a 1000sq ft studio

You assume no increase in living supply.

are you going to magically grow land in the city?

Why do I need to grow land? There are plenty of 10 story apartment and condo buildings in my future downtown. Those buildings can grow up and not out.

I think in the distant future, you'll see a lot more buildings represent something like the Hancock Building. You can live in the upper floors, work in the middle floors, and shop on the ground floors. There's even a Best Buy going in. Imagine only having to take an elevator to Best Buy.

I'm moving to an apartment building in a downtown area. This building is connected to nearly all the other downtown buildings via a skywalk. This means, at night, I can walk from my apartment to go buy grocery items, alcohol, whatever, without ever stepping foot outside or getting into a car. I'm also connected to the civic center so I never have to get into a car and deal with traffic when I want to go see a basketball or hockey game. I also live next to the center of nightlife so I never have to get into a car to go to the bar or clubs. Not to mention the many restaurants well within walking distance. There's a gym attached to the skywalk, and an indoor hot tub, sauna, and small fitness center in the basement. I may not have a yard, but I live about 2 blocks from a river and corresponding parks. Plenty of green space.

As populations continue to increase and supplies of traditional energy sources continue to decrease, more people will *want* to live in conditions like this. My fiance and I currently have two cars, and now we can eliminate one as I will no longer have to drive. This saves me gas money, insurance, registration, and maintenance (I already own the car, so no car payment). Living in communal conditions also makes it more affordable to implement green energy technologies. The investment can be shared by all parties and makes use of economy of scale. I see more people seeking out these conditions in the future until the price of energy decreases and/or the cost of turning one's home green with geo and solar technology drops.

Of course, suburbanization also becomes economically unfeasible as the value of crops continue to increase. In the past, creating giant new housing additions was relatively cheap and just required buying up largely flat farmland. Now that corn stands at over $6/bushel, this farmland is no longer cheap to buy. Sprawl can't go on forever, and that population has to go somewhere. I say up.

you live in minneapolis?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Aharami

demand for oil has been lower for a while now. Oil isnt being priced solely by supply and demand. Its the futures trading and speculation that's keeping the price of oil artificially inflated

demand of speculators is still demand.

but it's not actual demand by consumers. It's artificial demand

from an economics perspective there is no such thing as artificial demand.

speculation is not actually demand.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Just ride a bike and live close to everything you need.

Ever try to carry a family's worth of groceries on a bike? And I'm just talking bare necessities here, no huge soda containers, no 24 packs of Deer Park. Just cereal, produce, milk, orange juice and meat. I'd have to make about 20 trips for mine.

noone is saying you can't drive a car to do that. however, when you don't need to carry all that crap, you might be able to get by on a bike.

 

[rh71]

So I have this quickie spreadsheet to determine how much gas would cost annually (assuming 12k miles):

current prices
$4/gal

About $300-500/year more by raising prices ~$0.60, and doing 12k miles/year. It's significant but not riot-worthy. It's a good thing we only do 5k miles a year.

BTW, I'd like to make mention of how insignificant these annual prices are considering a regular full-time employee's annual wage. Seeing $4/gal signs is more mental pain than anything. And that guy who drives a shitty no-fun Geo Metro is saving a whole $1k per year. Go him.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: sportage
And whats funny as hell is the rumor of hordes of oil under S. Dakota (or was it north?).
You think gas is high now, coming from other countries.
No other country has ever outdone the good old USA when it comes to GREED!
If Exxon got its little pumps onto oil in the Dakota's, we'd see that $60 a gal gas bill
faster than you could snatch a Saudi?s turban.

North Dakota, and there are plenty of oil jobs to be had there. Manual labor jobs on the oil patch are starting out at $21.00 an hour, and they will take you if you can pass a criminal background check and a pee test. If you have even rudimentary skill as a welder or something along those lines, they will train you up to the level they need and your pay will be higher by an order of magnitude.

of course you also have to live in western north dakota.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Just ride a bike and live close to everything you need.

Ever try to carry a family's worth of groceries on a bike? And I'm just talking bare necessities here, no huge soda containers, no 24 packs of Deer Park. Just cereal, produce, milk, orange juice and meat. I'd have to make about 20 trips for mine.

noone is saying you can't drive a car to do that. however, when you don't need to carry all that crap, you might be able to get by on a bike.

I definitely do want to invest in a bike, especially for going a few blocks away for a quick pizza, but do realize that ~$250 is exactly how much more it would cost in gas for a year if they did raise the prices to $4/gal.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: irishScott
I hope it skyrockets. SUVs and hummers will finally leave the streets, which will actually do a decent bit for our oil supply.

You do realize there is no shortage of oil right?

The oil depots around the country have been full for the past 9 years.

Exactly. It is our refining capacity that is gutted, not our supply of raw crude.

I know, but better gas mileage on vehicles = less refined oil required = less strain on said refineries.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: irishScott
I hope it skyrockets. SUVs and hummers will finally leave the streets, which will actually do a decent bit for our oil supply.

You do realize there is no shortage of oil right?

The oil depots around the country have been full for the past 9 years.

Exactly. It is our refining capacity that is gutted, not our supply of raw crude.

I know, but better gas mileage on vehicles = less refined oil required = less strain on said refineries.

There is no refinery crisis.

They just cut back on refinery production because they said they aren't making enough record profits.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: irishScott
I hope it skyrockets. SUVs and hummers will finally leave the streets, which will actually do a decent bit for our oil supply.

You do realize there is no shortage of oil right?

The oil depots around the country have been full for the past 9 years.

Exactly. It is our refining capacity that is gutted, not our supply of raw crude.

I know, but better gas mileage on vehicles = less refined oil required = less strain on said refineries.

There is no refinery crisis.

They just cut back on refinery production because they said they aren't making enough record profits.

^^ QFT.

The funny thing is that we have American companies making some sweet American cars that have good mileage but aren't even sold here in the states. Many other areas of the world have stopped the continual increase of more horsepower, instead focusing on gas mileage, while in America the main thing people look for is horsepower.

To be honest, you can get around pretty much anywhere in a 100 hp four banger sedan, or 200 hp truck (unless you're towing something of course). Why people feel the need to get 300 to 400 hp on a car they drive to work by themselves every day is beyond me.

If companies shift their focus from hp to mpg then maybe we could start progressing again. There was an interesting article in Wired that stated that gas would have to get in the $4 to $5 range to really push technologies like hybrid cars. With more companies making hybrid cars, then interest and efficiency will increase with their use. Mods such as solar panel roofing will become more commonplace (the car charges the battery while just sitting there parked, and decreases the need to drain the grid as much). To top it off, if more cities were more bicycle friendly, bicycling to work would be a better alternative.

In some of the cities I had visited in Europe such as Amsterdam, bicycling was very much a viable means of transportation - not so much specifically because bikes were built better or more efficient, but simply because the traffic laws were much better and the streets were designed better to deal with bicyclists. If I had that type of infrastructure support here in the US I would have no problem biking to work every day. Instead I have to deal with riding out in the street with people not watching where they drive: eating, drinking, talking on the cellphone, etc. and the areas where I would have to bike are littered with garbage (people just toss their sh!t out the window instead of properly disposing of it) and broken glass.

Don't get me wrong; I have seen some urban cities make a revival in bicycling awareness and safety, such as Portland, OR where they have bicycle lanes all over the place. If I was living there for example I could see myself biking to work every morning.

Basically what I'm saying is that the technology and the means are already there to deal with the increase in gas prices, it's just that people will need to adapt for that to happen.

 

[rh71]

^ I wouldn't trust other drivers while on a motorbike, much less a much slower & fragile bicycle. Really taking your life into your own hands out there... or more like leaving it in the hands of others. Probably being passed by hundreds of different drivers a day, that's a lot of risk.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: rh71
^ I wouldn't trust other drivers while on a motorbike, much less a much slower & fragile bicycle. Really taking your life into your own hands out there... or more like leaving it in the hands of others. Probably being passed by hundreds of different drivers a day, that's a lot of risk.

True, but if you make yourself known on the street (bicyclists are allowed on the main roads) you decrease the odds. If you can stay on the sidewalk, you're good. You can also get a rear-view mirror for your helmet (and you're insane if you bike on the street without one), and other things to make it safer. That, and just being aware of your surroundings.

That said, I'd only do if I was awake. If I had just pulled an all nighter, I'd trust myself to drive safely, but keeping my balance on a bike is a different story. One wrong weight shift and I'm swerving in front of cars.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: irishScott
I hope it skyrockets. SUVs and hummers will finally leave the streets, which will actually do a decent bit for our oil supply.

You do realize there is no shortage of oil right?

The oil depots around the country have been full for the past 9 years.

Exactly. It is our refining capacity that is gutted, not our supply of raw crude.

I know, but better gas mileage on vehicles = less refined oil required = less strain on said refineries.

There is no refinery crisis.

They just cut back on refinery production because they said they aren't making enough record profits.

You're being disingenuous. They cut back on production because the costs of refining increased (because of the price of a barrel of oil) to the point where they were losing money. This was from a link that you provided previously.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: rh71
^ I wouldn't trust other drivers while on a motorbike, much less a much slower & fragile bicycle. Really taking your life into your own hands out there... or more like leaving it in the hands of others. Probably being passed by hundreds of different drivers a day, that's a lot of risk.

We have dedicated bike lanes on most of the roads around here. Cars aren't supposed to enter into them under normal circumstances but I've seen people ticketed for driving in or cutting past cars by driving in the bike lane. Yes, you are passed by hundreds of cars on the average commute and I've had a couple close calls but not one situation in which I wasn't able to do something to a) predict it and b) change the outcome in my favor.

I guess I could get clouted from behind by some idiot in an SUV talking on the phone but there really isn't anything I can do about that so I tend not to worry about it. I have bright lights to help alert the clueless morons in their cages that I am there.

Hell, you could die falling down stairs or a million other things that you have no control over. Using that as a reason not to do it is lame. Bicycling isn't that dangerous.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: rh71
^ I wouldn't trust other drivers while on a motorbike, much less a much slower & fragile bicycle. Really taking your life into your own hands out there... or more like leaving it in the hands of others. Probably being passed by hundreds of different drivers a day, that's a lot of risk.

We have dedicated bike lanes on most of the roads around here. Cars aren't supposed to enter into them under normal circumstances but I've seen people ticketed for driving in or cutting past cars by driving in the bike lane. Yes, you are passed by hundreds of cars on the average commute and I've had a couple close calls but not one situation in which I wasn't able to do something to a) predict it and b) change the outcome in my favor.

I guess I could get clouted from behind by some idiot in an SUV talking on the phone but there really isn't anything I can do about that so I tend not to worry about it. I have bright lights to help alert the clueless morons in their cages that I am there.

Hell, you could die falling down stairs or a million other things that you have no control over. Using that as a reason not to do it is lame. Bicycling isn't that dangerous.

What city do you live in? When I lived in Portland, OR it was easy to bike around and was fairly safe as there were bike lanes everywhere. Now I'm in the NE and I can only think of one road in my city that has a bike lane, and it's only for about 2 miles. People up here are a lot less courteous to bikers and pretty much view them as a nuisance here.

 

[tidehigh]

if it hits 6 per gallon here in Alabama before 2010, i move close to work and buy a bike.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Queasy

You're being disingenuous.

They cut back on production because the costs of refining increased (because of the price of a barrel of oil) to the point where they were losing money.

This was from a link that you provided previously.

You actually believe that? and you call me being the one "disingenuous". :roll:

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Queasy

You're being disingenuous.

They cut back on production because the costs of refining increased (because of the price of a barrel of oil) to the point where they were losing money.

This was from a link that you provided previously.

You actually believe that? and you call me being the one "disingenuous". :roll:

Go back and read that link you posted. Correctly this time. You got your math wrong on your reply to my post then too.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

speculation is not actually demand.

speculation is people buying the commodity (in this case oil for delivery in a couple months) because they think it's going to go up. there is no law of economics that states that only consumers, but not investors, counts as demand.