How important use synthetic oil instead regular one?

[thesmokingman]

Select models sold from 1997-2002
It's now 2015.

You have nothing better to do than to troll?

Read the links, there are plenty of late model cars sludging it up.

 

[crashtech]

Synthetic flows better when cold, so if you park outside and live where it's cold, synthetic will reduce wear in a cold engine.

 

[pauldun170]

You have nothing better to do than to troll?

Read the links, there are plenty of late model cars sludging it up.

I don't have anything better to do.
You should see the wall of text I posted on another site.
Rest of the family is watching Baseball.
I'm down here trying to decide
A. Gaming?
B. Naked ladies
C. Get all combative on the internet with random strangers

Currently I'm working on C., with a goal of 30 minutes of A.
If the wife is still awake, then I will skip B


Anyway back to option C.
I read your precious little link.
1997-2002 - Four banger and their 3.0 V6's were the problem children.

Having hung out with Toyota mechanics...nowadays the only people Toyota's with sludge are owned by people who will have sludge issues with any car they drive.

 

[jlee]

And that means it never existed? lol, why so defensive? As if Toyo didn't already lose and agree to settle? What's comical sadly is that since the suit, cars are still affected by this.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_sludge_settlement.html

Nah, it just means I take care of my shit.

How many Toyotas have you owned? How many have experienced this sludge problem?

 

[gururu2]

whats funny now is that a lot (if not all) Toyota models require 0W-20 oil, which I believe is only ever synthetic.

 

[Jimzz]

whats funny now is that a lot (if not all) Toyota models require 0W-20 oil, which I believe is only ever synthetic.

There are 0w-20 blends now.

Regular oil today is much more robust than ever. The difference in the last couple decades is pretty substantial. Even then cars have gone 100-200k on old oils. So regular oil for most cars changed ever 5k will keep it lasting a very long time.

 

[evident]

I don't have anything better to do.
You should see the wall of text I posted on another site.
Rest of the family is watching Baseball.
I'm down here trying to decide
A. Gaming?
B. Naked ladies
C. Get all combative on the internet with random strangers

Currently I'm working on C., with a goal of 30 minutes of A.
If the wife is still awake, then I will skip B


Anyway back to option C.
I read your precious little link.
1997-2002 - Four banger and their 3.0 V6's were the problem children.

Having hung out with Toyota mechanics...nowadays the only people Toyota's with sludge are owned by people who will have sludge issues with any car they drive.

lol great post.

No sludge problems w/ our 2007 2GR-FE engine either. but I'm pretty sure sludge over 20 years is what caused a blown rod in my dad's 96 camry... but still, 20 years of dependable use.

 

[996GT2]

If you plan to change the oil at the maintenance minder suggested intervals (often 8-10K), then yes, synthetic is better.

If you live in extreme temperatures where it often goes below 0 degrees F, then synthetic may be better too.

If you plan to change your oil every 5K miles and you live somewhere where there aren't very extreme temperatures? Conventional vs. synthetic doesn't matter as much.

 

[C1]

Re: Toyota sludging

Owned Toyota's for a few decades. For the most part, I change own oil. Dont know about sludge, but I can tell you about shellac/varnish.

In one case I noticed a varnish or shellac building up on the dip stick of my wife's Toyota. (She drives the card hard and used the AC lots. Both engine (& brakes) get heat stressed.

A guess is that the crappy bulk oil used by the dealer(s) for oil changes would break down from the severe service (heat & pressure). A common effect when oil breaks down is to form a varnish/shellac type deposit. This is particularly true with conventional oils with large range viscosity ratings as these use more additives (which are the things that break down).

The varnish/shellac was a bitch to remove off the dip stick. Literally had to steel wool it off. (If you get that coating in your oil galleys, my guess is to forget it, it's not going away unless you boil the engine in a cleaner during a rebuild.)

Once I started staying away from the dealer & changing the oil using a good quality conventional oil, the dip stick stayed clean. (Oil stayed cleaner longer too, at least visually.)

So, I would say that crappy dealer bulk oil may have been the real problem in some Toyotas & probably one of the reasons ultimately the switch was made to synths.

 

[oleguy]

Re: Toyota sludging
In one case I noticed a varnish or shellac building up on the dip stick of my wife's Toyota. (She drives the card hard and used the AC lots. Both engine (& brakes) get heat stressed.

A guess is that the crappy bulk oil used by the dealer(s) for oil changes would break down from the severe service (heat & pressure). A common effect when oil breaks down is to form a varnish/shellac type deposit. This is particularly true with conventional oils with large range viscosity ratings as these use more additives (which are the things that break down).

Besides oil quality, it's amazing how few people realize that "severe driving conditions" usually mean stop-and-go traffic everyday as part of the commute. If you're flying down the interstate at 60 every day for 20 minutes or so, you aren't really stressing the car much. But if you're stuck in traffic for that same period of time, or if you only drive the car 5-10 minutes before parking it for the day, you are actually stressing your car a lot more and your oil will break down more quickly.

Most sludge and breakdown is because of these conditions and people not realizing that they drive in it. Dodge's 2.7L had many of the same issues in the early 2000s, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that most of them were daily commuters that people rode hard in stop-and-go. It's still a problem and car manufacturers would be smart to call that out more.

Dealers don't help, as they tend to try to work around those manufacturer settings. For example, my wife's 2012 Focus has an oil minding system that is supposed to tell her when it's time to change it, based on driving conditions and such. Her commute is the opposite direction of traffic on interstate and other 55+ MPH roads for 25 minutes each day, and we only do a little city driving on weekends. So the oil minder only goes off when the upper limit of 10K is approached. The dealer wanted to set that upper limit to 7,500K, as they didn't trust it. Now, that could be legitimate (the half-baked transmission fixes are getting a little old, Ford) but you have someone nominally working to make Ford's brand better, and they are contradicting the stated maintenance schedule. No wonder people are confused about oil.

 

[DaTT]

I always use synthetic oil, because I can. If it's not recommended in your owners manual, then it's just a matter of preference.

 

[thomsbrain]

I'm not sure I would bother on a car that drinks or leaks oil, since you'll never realize the benefits of the extended drain interval.

But if your car can hold a pan of oil for 15,000+ miles, then synthetic becomes cheaper and less hassle; plus you get the other benefits.

 

[JimKiler]

Given the cost and the oil change interval the cost difference in using synthetic is hardly even measurable. For me, the reduced engine wear and better fuel economy more than make up for the slight increase in cost for the oil.

It cost me about $25 for 5 qt's of 5W-20 Mobil 1 and at a 5000 mile change interval that works out to one half penny per mile. If I paid $10 for the same quantity of non-synthetic oil and changed oil at the same interval the cost savings per mile would be 3/10 of a penny. So, given the fact that synthetic tends to give better fuel mileage it may work out that running synthetic is actually cheaper in the long run and that's if you stay with a 5000 mile interval. When you do a 7500 mile interval with synthetic versus 5000 for dino and figure in the better fuel mileage and reduced wear ...

Yeah, using synthetic is for suckers...


Brian

Agreed, pay more for Synthetic but change it less often is a nice trade off.

 

[Jeff7181]

Synthetic oil is better than conventional. It's a fact. It's not up for debate.

However, people repeatedly use the word "fine," which is subjective. Conventional oil may be "fine" to use in a particular application, but synthetic will work better.

Personally, the decision for me is based on one thing. Do I intend to keep the car for a long time or not (in the case of leasing, for example). If I intend to keep the car for a long time I'll use synthetic engine oil, synthetic transmission oil, synthetic brake fluid, etc.

There's lots of debate over the quality of various synthetic oils, especially when you get into the Group 3 vs. Group 4/5 discussion. Personally, I have a lot of good experience with Amsoil, so I use and sell Amsoil.

 

[996GT2]

Synthetic oil is better than conventional. It's a fact. It's not up for debate.

However, people repeatedly use the word "fine," which is subjective. Conventional oil may be "fine" to use in a particular application, but synthetic will work better.

Personally, the decision for me is based on one thing. Do I intend to keep the car for a long time or not (in the case of leasing, for example). If I intend to keep the car for a long time I'll use synthetic engine oil, synthetic transmission oil, synthetic brake fluid, etc.

There's lots of debate over the quality of various synthetic oils, especially when you get into the Group 3 vs. Group 4/5 discussion. Personally, I have a lot of good experience with Amsoil, so I use and sell Amsoil.

Better for what?

For - 30F cold starts, yes it is better. For normal conditions? Not so much.

Show me a UOA where synthetic actually shows better wear numbers than conventional with a normal 5k oil change interval and normal temperature conditions. Engines which are easy on oil (many Hondas) can easily pull off excellent UOAs with conventional on a 8k OCI.

Also, I've yet to see tangible evidence (e.g. Wear numbers) to show that AMSoil is any better than Mobil 1 EP or other significantly less expensive alternatives (M1EP is $25 on sale at Walmart. How much is amsoil for 5 quarts?)

 

[jlee]

Better for what?

For - 30F cold starts, yes it is better. For normal conditions? Not so much.

Show me a UOA where synthetic actually shows better wear numbers than conventional with a normal 5k oil change interval and normal temperature conditions. Engines which are easy on oil (many Hondas) can easily pull off excellent UOAs with conventional on a 8k OCI.

Also, I've yet to see tangible evidence (e.g. Wear numbers) to show that AMSoil is any better than Mobil 1 EP or other significantly less expensive alternatives (M1EP is $25 on sale at Walmart. How much is amsoil for 5 quarts?)

OE-spec Amsoil is under $5/qt at preferred customer rates. The high grade stuff is more, but if you truly wanted to know the answer I'm sure you would've looked it up.

 

[Jeff7181]

Better for what?

For - 30F cold starts, yes it is better. For normal conditions? Not so much.

Show me a UOA where synthetic actually shows better wear numbers than conventional with a normal 5k oil change interval and normal temperature conditions. Engines which are easy on oil (many Hondas) can easily pull off excellent UOAs with conventional on a 8k OCI.

Also, I've yet to see tangible evidence (e.g. Wear numbers) to show that AMSoil is any better than Mobil 1 EP or other significantly less expensive alternatives (M1EP is $25 on sale at Walmart. How much is amsoil for 5 quarts?)

Synthetic oils are superior to conventional in every measurable way (except cost). Synthetics are better during cold starts. They're better under high heat. They're better under high stress. They have more additives so they last longer. There is absolutely nothing that a conventional oil does better than a full synthetic.

Do your own research. Or don't. Keep using conventional oil. I honestly couldn't care less.

 

[Jeff7181]

OE-spec Amsoil is under $5/qt at preferred customer rates. The high grade stuff is more, but if you truly wanted to know the answer I'm sure you would've looked it up.

I only use Signature Series for applications for which it's available.

 

[jlee]

I only use Signature Series for applications for which it's available.

That's what I use as well.

 

[crashtech]

In five years, say an average of eight oil changes. Say using synthetic costs about $25-30 more each change than conventional. That's $40-48 per year of additional cost, or $3.33-4.00 per month. To me, that is a negligible amount to pay to have the best engine protection you can get. Others might do the math differently, but it's hardly worth the time.

 

[calahan]

This is simply not true. you can find deals on synthetic oils all the time, and it's marginally more expensive than regular, but is in general much better quality (pure is what they say) than regular oil. most Outdoor power equipment demand synthetic, and many auto mfr's recommend it as well.

I put synthetic in all the cars i work with, including my RX350 which has the exact same engine as your 11 avalon.

Yeah, thank you I just changed on full synthetic 5w-30 from Mobil1

 

[calahan]

In five years, say an average of eight oil changes. Say using synthetic costs about $25-30 more each change than conventional. That's $40-48 per year of additional cost, or $3.33-4.00 per month. To me, that is a negligible amount to pay to have the best engine protection you can get. Others might do the math differently, but it's hardly worth the time.

absolutely! that's why I chose syntetic

 

[996GT2]

OE-spec Amsoil is under $5/qt at preferred customer rates.

Yeah, but is OE-spec Amsoil any better than M1EP, Pennzoil Ultra, or any of the other name brand full-synthetics which can be bought for $5/qt at Walmart?

NOACK volatility on AMSoil OE is 10.9% as tested by PQIA, which is on par with some of the better non-synthetic oils. Makes me doubt how much PAO is actually in there vs. hydrocracked Group III base-stocks. M1EP is at 8.5, for comparison, and Pennzoil Ultra is 6.6.

TBN on AMSoil OE is 8.1, again worse than M1EP and PU which are around 9.5. So AMSoil OE is not designed for extended drain intervals.

 

[jlee]

yeah, but is oe-spec amsoil any better than m1ep, pennzoil ultra, or any of the other name brand full-synthetics which can be bought for $5/qt at walmart?

Noack volatility on amsoil oe is 10.9% as tested by pqia, which is on par with some of the better non-synthetic oils. Makes me doubt how much pao is actually in there vs. Hydrocracked group iii base-stocks. M1ep is at 8.5, for comparison, and pennzoil ultra is 6.6.

Tbn on amsoil oe is 8.1, again worse than m1ep and pu which are around 9.5. So amsoil oe is not designed for extended drain intervals.

.....

the high grade stuff is more, but if you truly wanted to know the answer i'm sure you would've looked it up.

You're correct, it's for OEM oil change intervals, not extended. I haven't seen a UOA comparison between Amsoil Signature and Mobil1 EP, but I wouldn't be surprised if either/both were fine for 15k/1yr. The more important (and often ignored/forgotten) factor may very well be the filter. A $5 Fram isn't really built to last 15k.

 

[996GT2]

In five years, say an average of eight oil changes. Say using synthetic costs about $25-30 more each change than conventional. That's $40-48 per year of additional cost, or $3.33-4.00 per month. To me, that is a negligible amount to pay to have the best engine protection you can get. Others might do the math differently, but it's hardly worth the time.

There are situations in which it would not benefit as much to run full synthetic.

I run full synthetic in one of my vehicles which gets mainly highway usage (8-10k mile oil change intervals). At around $5/quart, it ends up being less expensive than running a conventional oil for 5k intervals.

However, on my other car which gets frequently short-tripped, fuel dilution becomes an issue way before 10k miles. In fact, I had an UOA done at 3k miles and fuel dilution was already at around 3%. So, on that car, I only run about 3-4k mile oil change intervals, and I use conventional. Using a full syn won't help with fuel dilution (short trips < 5 miles will do that), so I don't see any reason to use a full syn.