How long before smoking is banned altogether?

[Mill]

How long before smoking is banned all together? I know they have banned it in lots of Fast Food places and all places that serve food in some states. Birmingham was considering a ban on indoor smoking but the city council is not going to pass it.

I link this story as a reference.

http://www.wiat.com/MGBQED0XY3D.html

My cousin(2nd) is Joel Montgomery. He smokes Marlboro Ultra Lights BTW.

 

[Electric Amish]

Never will be.

Too much tax money is made off cigarettes.

amish

 

[dullard]

It isn't going to happen anytime in your lifetime. Here are some reasons why:

1) It needs an act of congress to pass. Anyone voting for this will certainly lose their job come next election. This is political suicide.
2) No president will sign that bill for the same reasons.
3) The bill will be killed by the states with tobaco as a major industry.
4) Banning things is generally useless - look at what happened when alcohol was made unconstitutional and how well that worked.
5) Heavilly taxing things has been shown to (A) reduce the bad abuse far better than banning and (B) generates a whole lot of money.
6) Courts have been pretty favorable to tobacco in the past (regarding attempts to ban it).

 

[pulse8]

I love that smoking is banned in any indoor environment around here.

 

[Amused]

5) Heavilly taxing things has been shown to (A) reduce the bad abuse far better than banning and (B) generates a whole lot of money

Actually, this can, and has had the same effect as an outright ban. It promotes and creates dangerous underground black markets to smuggle in the goods at a fraction of the price.

If you tax a thing too much, you have virtually banned it.

 

[monk3y]

I think it might get to the point that smokers are confined to smoking only in their own houses.

 

[MacBaine]

I think they should just make it a law that you have to either stop or go somewhere else when around somebody in a public place and they ask you to.

 

[Hubris]

Why do people whine and cry about having the government ban things? What happened to self-control? And since when is it the government's job to protect people from themself? (I know they've been doing it for a long time, but it was never right). If you don't want to be around cigarette smoke, get away from it. It's banned in workplaces and stores, etc. etc. So there's no reason one would HAVE to be around smokers if one didn't want to.

Jesus, stop trying to make the government more and more like Big Brother. If idiots want to smoke; let them. Long as I get their stuff when they die.

 

[dullard]

If you don't want to be around cigarette smoke, get away from it. It's banned in workplaces and stores, etc. etc. So there's no reason one would HAVE to be around smokers if one didn't want to.

That is the problem. Many times we cannot get away from it - even outdoors. One example: I'm waiting for the bus which will be there in one minute. Two people come up to the bus stop and pull out cigs and puff directly into my face. I have the choice: (a) inhale the smoke which could possibly kill me or (b) leave the bus stop, be late for work, and possibly lose my job. I have no other choice but to hold my breath and hope the bus gets there fast. It SHOULD be illegal for people to put that murdurous smoke in my face. Maybe they should leave the place that they know people cannot leave. There is no reason that they HAVE to smoke in other peoples faces.

 

[dullard]

Actually, this can, and has had the same effect as an outright ban. It promotes and creates dangerous underground black markets to smuggle in the goods at a fraction of the price.

If you tax a thing too much, you have virtually banned it.

True there is a limit. However no state has yet reached that limit. The only significant black market for cigarettes are (a) for minors and (b) along the boarders of regions of drastic tax differences. Eliminate the drastic location tax differences and you will kill (b) or just tax it at the source, the tobacco companies, instead of trying to do it by sales tax. Sure there will still be some illegal smuggleing from foreign lands, but I cannot see that they can smuggle enough to satisfy all of America's needs. Unfortunately no law enforcement has ever attempted to eliminate (a).

 

[Hubris]

Originally posted by: dullard

If you don't want to be around cigarette smoke, get away from it. It's banned in workplaces and stores, etc. etc. So there's no reason one would HAVE to be around smokers if one didn't want to.

That is the problem. Many times we cannot get away from it - even outdoors. One example: I'm waiting for the bus which will be there in one minute. Two people come up to the bus stop and pull out cigs and puff directly into my face. I have the choice: (a) inhale the smoke which could possibly kill me or (b) leave the bus stop, be late for work, and possibly lose my job. I have no other choice but to hold my breath and hope the bus gets there fast. It SHOULD be illegal for people to put that murdurous smoke in my face. Maybe they should leave the place that they know people cannot leave. There is no reason that they HAVE to smoke in other peoples faces.

Simple solution: stand upwind. No smoke in face.

 

[dullard]

Simple solution: stand upwind. No smoke in face.

What if there is no wind and it is just hanging there? What if you are standing near any object (tree, sign, building, car, etc) which causes swirling turbulence and the deadly smoke goes in all directions? What if some rude person takes a deep puff, puts his/her face 3 inches from yours, and exhales right upon you? What if there are smokers in all directions so there is no place to move that is upwind? What if you have to enter a door to a building and there are smokers on both sides of the door meaning there is no way around the smoke? What if you didn't notice a smoker approach and you get one whiff of smoke before you have the chance to move? What if I'm allergic to smoke and any of these situations can be life threatening (no need to wait for cancer to kill me)?

If you can smell the smoke, you are inhaleing the smoke. Trust me, there are many occasions when I smell smoke when I thought I was upwind...

Statistics show that smoke kills the smokers. Statistics show that same smoke kills people indoors that are around someone smoking. It would take an idiot to truely believe that the same smoke doesn't kill when it hits your face while you are outside - just wait in the next 5 to 10 years as studies are done that prove this.

Why should I risk my life just so someone can smoke in a place where he/she knows non smokers will be affected? Why can't smokers smoke where they are either (A) alone or (B) around other smokers only?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dullard

Actually, this can, and has had the same effect as an outright ban. It promotes and creates dangerous underground black markets to smuggle in the goods at a fraction of the price.

If you tax a thing too much, you have virtually banned it.

True there is a limit. However no state has yet reached that limit. The only significant black market for cigarettes are (a) for minors and (b) along the boarders of regions of drastic tax differences. Eliminate the drastic location tax differences and you will kill (b) or just tax it at the source, the tobacco companies, instead of trying to do it by sales tax. Sure there will still be some illegal smuggleing from foreign lands, but I cannot see that they can smuggle enough to satisfy all of America's needs. Unfortunately no law enforcement has ever attempted to eliminate (a).

Really? After these last tax increases, give the blackmarkets time to form. Already you can buy duty free smokes online for a fraction of the cost, and these places can't keep enough in stock they're so busy.

As for not being able to smuggle enough, I guess the drug trade has escaped you.

 

[TallBill]

hopefully soon

 

[Mill]

BTW I support his stance. I am a smoker myself.

 

[Phoenix15]

Originally posted by: dullard

Simple solution: stand upwind. No smoke in face.

What if there is no wind and it is just hanging there? What if you are standing near any object (tree, sign, building, car, etc) which causes swirling turbulence and the deadly smoke goes in all directions? What if some rude person takes a deep puff, puts his/her face 3 inches from yours, and exhales right upon you? What if there are smokers in all directions so there is no place to move that is upwind? What if you have to enter a door to a building and there are smokers on both sides of the door meaning there is no way around the smoke? What if you didn't notice a smoker approach and you get one whiff of smoke before you have the chance to move?


Why should I risk my life just so someone can smoke in a place where he/she knows non smokers will be affected?

It seems to me your complaint has nothing to do with 99% of people who smoke. Your complaint is with rude people (blowing smoke in your face, being inconsiderate). There is a difference. Don't generalive all smokers into such a broad group.

 

[Mill]

A lot of people aren't reading the article. The current article says smoking is premitted in designated areas only. What is wrong with that? If it is designated smoking only and you are a non-smoker don't go in there.

 

[dullard]

Really? After these last tax increases, give the blackmarkets time to form. Already you can buy duty free smokes online for a fraction of the cost, and these places can't keep enough in stock they're so busy.

As for not being able to smuggle enough, I guess the drug trade has escaped you.

The duty free stores can be easilly shut down if the government wanted to. The drug trade exists but it pales in comparision to the number of people who would need cigarrettes. You said yourself that these stores can't keep enough in stock - meaning that they don't have enough illegal supply. There just isn't enough smugglers around to handle the demand. Plus other drugs are far more profitable to smuggle. Sure this market exists and will continue to. But it will never replace the stores that legally sell them on every single street corner.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dullard

Really? After these last tax increases, give the blackmarkets time to form. Already you can buy duty free smokes online for a fraction of the cost, and these places can't keep enough in stock they're so busy.

As for not being able to smuggle enough, I guess the drug trade has escaped you.

The duty free stores can be easilly shut down if the government wanted to. The drug trade exists but it pales in comparision to the number of people who would need cigarrettes. You said yourself that these stores can't keep enough in stock - meaning that they don't have enough illegal supply. There just isn't enough smugglers around to handle the demand. Plus other drugs are far more profitable to smuggle. Sure this market exists and will continue to. But it will never replace the stores that legally sell them on every single street corner.

I believe that will be proportianate to the amount of taxes. Just wait, you will hear about more and more smuggling rings in NYC and other areas in which a pack has gone past $5-6 per.

And it matters not if they can fill all the orders. What matters is it will become as bad, if not worse that the war on drugs and prohibition. You'll just have more desperate addicts and more profit for dealers, that's all.

 

[Chipster]

I heard some tourist town located in Cape Cod Massachusetts voted in a non-smoking ban for all public places but now want to reverse it cause all the smokers are hanging around outside and there are butts everywhere and business is down so its actually going back into some places.

In my opinion, it should not be banned in all public places such as bars/taverns and the owners should just be able to post a sign stating its a smoking or non-smoking place and then the customer can make his/her decision to enter or not.

I quit smoking 3 years ago and I have nothing against smokers now except for one thing. I hate it when they throw butts out there car window or on the ground. I never did that.

 

[DaiShan]

I don't think it ever will be. Personally I am against smoking, but the tobacco industry has been ruled a legitimate industry and as such it is time to stop legislating against them.

 

[vi edit]

A lot of people aren't reading the article. The current article says smoking is premitted in designated areas only. What is wrong with that? If it is designated smoking only and you are a non-smoker don't go in there.

Sounds fair enough to me. So long as boundaries are set and clearly marked. I personally could give a flying fart about the health and cancer concerns about second hand smoke. I would just like to be able to go to a bar or a restaurant without walking out smelling like ass.

 

[dullard]

It seems to me your complaint has nothing to do with 99% of people who smoke. Your complaint is with rude people (blowing smoke in your face, being inconsiderate). There is a difference. Don't generalive all smokers into such a broad group.

True, some smokers are considerate and only smoke in their home (of course then we need to discuss the ethics of the babies in those homes who cannot leave the smoky rooms... but that is too far off topic). However any smoker who does it in public risks affending or killing innocent bystanders (and I bet this is more than the 1% of smokers you claim). Smoking outside can be done without these problems, but it should be the smokers who have to leave the area if there are issues, not the non-smokers. I think the government should be allowed to make rude smokeing a crime (like many places are starting to make spitting on other people a crime). No where did I argue that the government will ban smokeing altogether. I just disagree that non-smokers often don't have a reasonable choice to avoid it.

I bet on average I have to hold my breath 15 times a day to move around these rude smokers. I think that is just a bit too many and something should be done. I cannot enter a single building on the university campus without dodging at least 3 smokers. I cannot enter any bus without standing by 2-4 smokers. I cannot go bowling or to a bar without risking my life on the smoke. Somehow smokers need to learn to smoke in places that don't bother so many people.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

A lot of people aren't reading the article. The current article says smoking is premitted in designated areas only. What is wrong with that? If it is designated smoking only and you are a non-smoker don't go in there.

Sounds fair enough to me. So long as boundaries are set and clearly marked. I personally could give a flying fart about the health and cancer concerns about second hand smoke. I would just like to be able to go to a bar or a restaurant without walking out smelling like ass.

The bar thing is the only thing I disagree with. There are clearly designated non/smoking sections in restaurants. In a Bar smoking and drinking go hand and hand. Bars and Pubs and smoking are kinda of like two brothers. I don't see why you would want to drink and not smoke. Ah. I guess they should just open up areas of the bar that are non-smoking.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: dullard

If you don't want to be around cigarette smoke, get away from it. It's banned in workplaces and stores, etc. etc. So there's no reason one would HAVE to be around smokers if one didn't want to.

That is the problem. Many times we cannot get away from it - even outdoors. One example: I'm waiting for the bus which will be there in one minute. Two people come up to the bus stop and pull out cigs and puff directly into my face. I have the choice: (a) inhale the smoke which could possibly kill me or (b) leave the bus stop, be late for work, and possibly lose my job. I have no other choice but to hold my breath and hope the bus gets there fast. It SHOULD be illegal for people to put that murdurous smoke in my face. Maybe they should leave the place that they know people cannot leave. There is no reason that they HAVE to smoke in other peoples faces.

second hand smoke is double filtered and it is dilute. it's not going to kill you unless you breath it in 24/7 or they breath right on you. but any normal adult a reasonable distance away is fine.