Discussion How long till we lose democracy?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,679
6,195
126
Well, the central point of the article is that a portion of the profile of a typical sociopath may be related to life experience. The part which involves "impulsiveness" and lacking self-control. But not the part that involves lacking empathy. They have found no experiential explanation for that.

The article suggests that those who become violent and find themselves in prison correlate pretty strongly with past abuse, while those who find themselves as CEO's of major corporations and those attending things like CPAC are the type who were not abused and have more self-control. But the common denominator is the lack of empathy.

There are not two or more kinds of "science." There is only one science. It is a method. A method which you follow to whatever end it takes you. You cannot dismiss the result because you prefer a different answer.

The idea that violence is entirely a learned behavior is belied by the fact that it was evolutionarily advantageous, and hence would have been selected as a inborn trait. Particularly for males who were out hunting and gathering.

The fact that both nature and nurture play a role in human behavior suggests that we can always be better, but it's unlikely we're ever going to be be perfect. Which makes utopian scenarios pretty naïve.
You are mistaken about two kinds of science, precisely why I wanted to avoid addressing this issue. The second kind of science is only known to those who know it. This accounts for the wine analogy often used by Sufis. Only those who taste wine know what the wine of truth tastes like. It can’t be communicated by words.

Basically, as I vaguely remember the issue described, when Sir Francis brought Islamic science to the West, the concept that the observer could not be excluded from the equation got lost. The observer affects what is observed. You certainly are aware that science and conservative ‘feels’ are not dealing in the same reality. They are influenced by unconsciously held assumptions as are all of us who are asleep. The assumption we hold that blinds us then is the assumption we are awake.

As the Sufis say, in a room full of people, some asleep and sone awake, only the awake know who is who.

This is also why I am big on the need for humility. It kills the need to assume, to protect the ego, a false reality.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,516
13,090
136
Well, the central point of the article is that a portion of the profile of a typical sociopath may be related to life experience. The part which involves "impulsiveness" and lacking self-control. But not the part that involves lacking empathy. They have found no experiential explanation for that.

The article suggests that those who become violent and find themselves in prison correlate pretty strongly with past abuse, while those who find themselves as CEO's of major corporations and those attending things like CPAC are the type who were not abused and have more self-control. But the common denominator is the lack of empathy.

There are not two or more kinds of "science." There is only one science. It is a method. A method which you follow to whatever end it takes you. You cannot dismiss the result because you prefer a different answer.

The idea that violence is entirely a learned behavior is belied by the fact that it was evolutionarily advantageous, and hence would have been selected as a inborn trait. Particularly for males who were out hunting and gathering.

The fact that both nature and nurture play a role in human behavior suggests that we can always be better, but it's unlikely we're ever going to be be perfect. Which makes utopian scenarios pretty naïve.

I think both of you is right in your own ways

This TED talk is pretty good, its Jim Fallon, dude with a the genetic makeup of a psychopath, but while primed, due to his upbringing, it was never triggered... His behavior is still, well see the talk, but he never went full... and is productive member of society today.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,679
6,195
126
I think both of you is right in your own ways.
My objection to the ‘genetic’, I hope I made clear, is not that a genetic component can’t be at play, but that the belief there is one acts as an assumption that turns into a rationalization for why one need not look further. I hope to suggest that the answer to violence for humanity lies in awakening to the problem of self hate, the last thing we want to feel. Our view of reality is conditioned by what we feel and we do not see that because we believe what we feel is real. This resistance to self confrontation thus prevents us from the the kind of remembering of the self that reveals we were made to believe in lies.

There isn’t anything wrong with us but we do not actually believe it.
 
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gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,020
1,727
136
I don’t understand why the right would even say such a thing as this country has been ran on Republican values and policies for the last 40+ years.

Immigration hasn’t gotten easier or looser.
Taxes are still at their lowest point in history.
We’ve been in some sort of armed conflict almost the entire time to defend “American values”.
Our social safety net hasn’t grown.
Wages continue to be at record lows.
Companies continue to make record profits and by extension, the stock market is ridiculously high.
Abortion restrictions are the strictest they’ve ever been.
We have more guns than ever with fewer restrictions than ever.
We have more charter schools than ever.


Exactly what liberal policies have democrats enacted?
Gay people can now get married?
More people can legally buy weed?
Trans people can serve in the military?

Really good post. Like, it's hard to understand their rage these days. But then you have to remember that they're not conservative as much as they are reactionaries.

Take COVID for example.

They railed against mask mandates...but now that they're going away, they seem to be questioning it like there's some nefarious, ulterior motive.

Vaccine - initially they swore it would save the day...but some 40% of them don't even want to take it now.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
Really good post. Like, it's hard to understand their rage these days. But then you have to remember that they're not conservative as much as they are reactionaries.

Take COVID for example.

They railed against mask mandates...but now that they're going away, they seem to be questioning it like there's some nefarious, ulterior motive.

Vaccine - initially they swore it would save the day...but some 40% of them don't even want to take it now.

Yeah, I almost forgot how trump was all for the vaccine until he wasn't. The right stands for nothing except being the victim.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,860
20,182
136
You can pretty much chalk all the Evangelical right wing base up as fervent fascists. They will go along with any authoritarian rule from a Trumpist. Ditto with the confederate flag waving redneck base of the GQP. These two groups won't begrudgingly stay silent, they will literally run, not walk, to embrace fascism from their GQP overlords. They would also run, not walk, to turn on the ovens if Trump told them they were full of marxist liberal illegal immigrant infidels.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,516
13,090
136
Well that's the catastrophic part i'm not looking forward to if that happens. I really can't imagine the dominos falling in that scenario. The stuff of actual nightmares.
Well its just gonna be game over for "us" and it'll be up to the mafia states vs. CPC ... if we're lucky we're still around to at least watch it.
Trying to decide if I would rather live in a CPC or Russia like mafia state... cant seem to make up my mind.

You can pretty much chalk all the Evangelical right wing base up as fervent fascists. They will go along with any authoritarian rule from a Trumpist. Ditto with the confederate flag waving redneck base of the GQP. These two groups won't begrudgingly stay silent, they will literally run, not walk, to embrace fascism from their GQP overlords. They would also run, not walk, to turn on the ovens if Trump told them they were full of marxist liberal illegal immigrant infidels.
I guess that is what happens to a evolved society when you walk back literacy, you re-enter the societal tribal norms as well, fashion your self a cleric in this setting, set out to improve your own power position and .. yea, burn all the books, I need my flock to stay ignora.. pure, I mean pure.
Its like that Einstein formula for special relativity E = MC^2 - redefined : P=MS^2
Power = Money * Souls^2
And if P becomes too large it will implode into a black hole and swallow everything we've ever known.
 
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