how long until the student loan market crashes

[manimal]

It makes me sick that so many people take out $100k student loans on art degrees and stuff that won't likely pay a reasonable salary.

makes me sick that people care so much about what other people want to do with their lives.



Do too many people without the talent and perseverence get art degrees? Yes


I got degrees in music and italian literature and I worked as a professional musician for almost 20 years.



The problems lie in acceptance process. In the old days really good art and music schools only accepted the best and those they thought they could teach or mold. Now admissions will take ANYONE who can pay.


My music school accepted 4 people the year I was accepted.



Now back to your rage filled programming.

 

[unokitty]

Mark Cuban Warns A Housing Bubble-Like Crash Is Coming To The Student Loan Business

"It's inevitable at some point there will be a cap on student loan guarantees. And when that happens you're going to see a repeat of what we saw in the housing market: when easy credit for buying or flipping a house disappeared we saw a collapse in the price housing, and we're going to see that same collapse in the price of student tuition, and that's going to lead to colleges going out of business."

When the crash happens, it isn't going to be pretty. Colleges, as well as students, are at record debt levels.

The Hidden College Problem: When Universities, Not Just Students, Take On Debt

Schools across the country are borrowing more money, and the increasing reliance on debt-financing at universities is adding logs covered in lighter fluid to an already flammable higher education system. The University of California system, for example, has $14.5 billion in outstanding debt, more than double its level in 2005. The total volume of debt across colleges of all kinds has increased so much that interest payments per student have increased 86% since a decade ago despite low interest rates.

Not going to be pretty at all...

Uno

 

[Mai72]

Many people who have $50k in student loan debt with no way to pay it back.

What are our options?

Throw them in jail? Will never happen. We don't do that in America.

Take their possessions? Oh that's right. Most don't have anything.

There are a few simple solutions that we can do.

1) Hardship payment for people who don't have the means to pay back their loans. The government pays the loan off. A fresh start for most people.

2) A change in how prospective students are granted tuition. We need strict guidelines.

It's not going to happen as long as we have Republicans in the senate and house. This issue is going to have to severely effect the economy before any action takes place.

 

[Mai72]

I have friends who are now teaching in Asia because they are avoiding their student loans.

They can't pay them back and they don't have the desire to pay them back.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I have friends who are now teaching in Asia because they are avoiding their student loans.

They can't pay them back and they don't have the desire to pay them back.

Things like that are treason in my eyes - worthy of death. Not any different than draft dodgers except worse, you aren't being put on a battle field, you are just being asked to pay your bills, deadbeats.

We go and slave for you and what do you do for us to return the favor? Run for the hills like a fucking pig. To the slaughter house you go.

 

[manimal]

1) Hardship payment for people who don't have the means to pay back their loans.

sorry. not gonna happen


Took me 12 years to pay it off though I could have payed it off earlier but I budgeted for it and used cash to buy house outright.




People need to think about going to JC for 1 or two to cut down their debt when they leave though most kids cant think that far ahead. I dont want the government to make that decision for people.

I worked almost full time hours WHILE i was in a double major AND practiced and studied my ass off.


mai72 should spend more time working than thinking about ways for the government to give him free monies. Did you go to a private or state school? Did you have any scholarship options? I got tons of money and scholarship offers but I ended up going to a state school that was cheaper so while i actually got less scholarship money from them it payed more of my tuition.

Whats your degree in ?

 

[Mai72]

Things like that are treason in my eyes - worthy of death. Not any different than draft dodgers except worse, you aren't being put on a battle field, you are just being asked to pay your bills, deadbeats.

We go and slave for you and what do you do for us to return the favor? Run for the hills like a fucking pig. To the slaughter house you go.

I've also read of people teaching English in Asia and the Middle East because they have criminal records. We all make choices in life. I don't agree with their choices.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I've also read of people teaching English in Asia and the Middle East because they have criminal records. We all make choices in life. I don't agree with their choices.

I don't disagree completely - I have friends that do that. They LOVE Japan and Korea and instantly upon graduation went out to teach English there to little kids. Whatever, that is up to them.

The difference? They still come home, they still pay/report their taxes, and they still pay their debts to society. To each their own as far as your career choices in life.

But running from debt given to you is absolute treason worthy of death. Your citizenship should be shredded at bare minimum since you obviously have no appreciation for the benefits that were given to you.

 

[Mai72]

sorry. not gonna happen


Took me 12 years to pay it off though I could have payed it off earlier but I budgeted for it and used cash to buy house outright.




People need to think about going to JC for 1 or two to cut down their debt when they leave though most kids cant think that far ahead. I dont want the government to make that decision for people.

I worked almost full time hours WHILE i was in a double major AND practiced and studied my ass off.


mai72 should spend more time working than thinking about ways for the government to give him free monies. Did you go to a private or state school? Did you have any scholarship options? I got tons of money and scholarship offers but I ended up going to a state school that was cheaper so while i actually got less scholarship money from them it payed more of my tuition.

Whats your degree in ?

My degree is in special education. I went to community college for two years, and then I finished my degree in Rowan University. I agree that people should pay back their debt.

Why is your anger directed at students who are having difficulty paying back their student loans? Were you angry at home owners who were walking away from their mortgages? Were you angry at the bankers who nearly bankrupted America?

I only stated that the government should pay back the student loans because it will have a huge impact on our economy. I'm not saying that taxpayers should pay back the loans without anything in return. We should enforce a strict policy in regard to how student loans are handed out.

What is your strategy for people who owe student loans, and don't have the means to pay them back? You can't get blood from a stone.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

As for books, the damn 'web only' portion that comes with books kills me. You cannot get the web only portion unless you buy it from the university book store WITH the book so it pretty much locks you out from buying outside the university. My daughter's books were $1300+ last semester because of that crap!

What a con. They do that to keep you from buying international editions of the textbooks off ebay for $25. They're the same books published by the same people, but they're paperbacks because they know people in India aren't paying $200 for hardcover acid-free books that they'll only use for a few months. I used to buy Indian, Chinese, and Iranian editions of all my CS books for 1/10th the price the school bookstore charged.

 

[Mai72]

Those very two things you mentioned have happened at the university that my daughter attends. The 'townhouses' cost 2.5 times the price per semester that the dorms cost. As for books, the damn 'web only' portion that comes with books kills me. You cannot get the web only portion unless you buy it from the university book store WITH the book so it pretty much locks you out from buying outside the university. My daughter's books were $1300+ last semester because of that crap!

$1,300 for frekin books!!!

Why do we as consumers put up with this bullsh*t! We should pull our children out of college for one year. Adult students should withdraw as well. Doing that alone we would probably see a 30% drop in college tuition.

Thoughts?

 

[Engineer]

What a con. They do that to keep you from buying international editions of the textbooks off ebay for $25. They're the same books published by the same people, but they're paperbacks because they know people in India aren't paying $200 for hardcover acid-free books that they'll only use for a few months. I used to buy Indian, Chinese, and Iranian editions of all my CS books for 1/10th the price the school bookstore charged.

Really pissed me off even more when one of the professors said that they were not using the web portion.

 

[Imp]

$1,300 for frekin books!!!

Why do we as consumers put up with this bullsh*t! We should pull our children out of college for one year. Adult students should withdraw as well. Doing that alone we would probably see a 30% drop in college tuition.

Thoughts?

Because we're told to do that. Because if you don't do what your "friends" do or what's considered "normal" by "societal" standards (the one on TV, of course), you have people telling you what a f*ck up, weirdo, creep, loser, or whatever you are -- I have a family member like that.


In a drunken stupor, I started thinking about how college/university is supposed to "teach you how to think." So what the hell do we do for 12 years + 2 years in kindergarten for the first 18 years of our lives?

 

[Mai72]

Because we're told to do that. Because if you don't do what your "friends" do or what's considered "normal" by "societal" standards (the one on TV, of course), you have people telling you what a f*ck up, weirdo, creep, loser, or whatever you are -- I have a family member like that.


In a drunken stupor, I started thinking about how college/university is supposed to "teach you how to think." So what the hell do we do for 12 years + 2 years in kindergarten for the first 18 years of our lives?

You should ask your family member if he/she thinks Martin Luther King and Gandhi are weirdos? They stood up for their beliefs and they were able to change the system with protest. We could easily do the same. All we need to do is vote with our wallets.

Most people don't critically think because it takes real courage to go against the system. Look at history. Only the few had the courage to go against the grain.

 

[mmntech]

Ship good middle class jobs out for decades: check
Tell people they have to go to college and get some kind of a degree or fail: check
Lend them insane amounts of money for said worthless degrees: check
System fail: check

We can send everyone in the US to college and we will end up with the most educated McDonalds employees in the world. We reap what we sow.

Was a time when a man could pull in enough of a living at the plant to feed his family on a single income. Now he's flipping burgers for minimum wage. They'll soon get replaced by machines (there's already prototypes being shopped around). What then?

The problem with higher educations is systemic. We're pushing kids into college who really shouldn't be there. At the same time, it's not exactly easy to find out about job prospects. You have to dig for that information, which no 17 year old is going to do. They were just told to follow their heart. Which is how you get someone spending $100k to get a masters in social services or philosophy, even though there's no job prospects. By the time they figure this out, it's too late.

The days of graduating university and getting a good job fresh out the gate are long over. Kids have to realize this. It's a long slog today just to find any entry level position. Education doesn't guarantee you anything anymore.

The other issue is the stigma against skilled trades. When I was in high school, kids who went into trades courses were implied to be less intelligent by the system. That they were dead end careers. Yet trades can never be outsourced. There will always be a need for carpenters, welders, mechanics, electricians, etc. Skilled tradespeople can make upwards $50/hr or more, and they're in demand. Yet we push kids away from these jobs. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I still have mixed feelings about going to university. Had I gone to community college instead and gotten my diploma in broadcast, I would have started my career much sooner. A degree is a nice thing to put on a resume but I'm not sure how much weight it carries these days. Even if it's from a top school.

 

[Mai72]

Is it me or do young people not want to work anymore? I hate to start off when I was their age...

When I was their age I held down a job for most of the year, and 2 jbs in the summer. When I decided to attend college I was working midnight security. I'd work 12-8am and run off to classes. You want to talk about hell.

It seems that a lot of young people today are spending a large part of their time playing video games and on social media sites. That would be You Tube, Twitch, Twitter, FaceBook, and so on. I go on Twitch from time to time and I notice so many people playing and watching video games. Of course, this is just a simple observation. It just seems that if most young people had to work 12 hour days most would refuse.

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Mai72]

The Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-earnings-expectations-widens-graduates.html

Young people want everything but can't be bothered to earn it as 'fantasy gap' between actual earnings and expectations widens among graduates.

Research into the life goals of three generations of students shows teenagers are more driven by materialism than ever.

Numbers don't add up as 62 per cent want to have money but 39 percent don't want to work for it.

Life goals of 355,000 students surveyed in U.S show a shift in priorities.

They want all the cash and the flashy lifestyles, but young people just aren't prepared to work hard to achieve it.

Today's teenagers have a greater sense of entitlement than previous generations, according to new research.

Studies show that teenagers are more materialistic than ever, while the desire to work hard is at an all-time low.

A survey into the life goals of three generations of students revealed a 'fantasy gap' between the desire for wealth and the desire to work.

 

[who?]

At least the government is making the schools pay back the financial aid if the students aren't attending classes. You can't pass just by taking the tests.
The townhouses are what the students said they wanted and the schools set up supply to fill the demand.
When a local hospital built a new hospital the patients said they wanted private rooms so that's all there were when they opened. Then the patients found out what their insurance wouldn't pay for. I don't think they have private rooms now.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

That is the dumbest study ever. The entire thing reeks of trying to match evidence to the claim, rather than the other way around.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Only if the Taxpayer backing is pulled away. As long as 6% risk free loans can be handed like Candy to students.

I dont see that happening, because how is college supposed to be affordable if you cant take a 1 million dollar 6% loan?

There are two basic types of loans....subsidized and unsubsidized. The subsidized loans are only subsidized until 6 months after full time status. The unsubsidized loans are required for most post grad programs. I've known people to max 3 student loans and still not have enough money to cover living expenses.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

In a drunken stupor, I started thinking about how college/university is supposed to "teach you how to think." So what the hell do we do for 12 years + 2 years in kindergarten for the first 18 years of our lives?

That's just babysitting to keep you from robbing houses in the daytime.

 

[SP33Demon]

Ship good middle class jobs out for decades: check
Tell people they have to go to college and get some kind of a degree or fail: check
Lend them insane amounts of money for said worthless degrees: check
System fail: check

We can send everyone in the US to college and we will end up with the most educated McDonalds employees in the world. We reap what we sow.

People who used to get good paying jobs in the US and now can't are going to college when they have no ability to be there. Waste of resources on all levels, but what else are they supposed to do now? Their choices of years past have been stripped out from under our noses while telling us that we will be better for it. Sure thing there skippy!

One thing you're missing is that our standard of living is significantly higher with a better educated workforce. Even if McD workers have degrees... this education has undoubtedly raised our standard of living in the transition of manufacturing to service based. Adapt or gtfo is what this shift forced. While it sucks that everyone has to get a degree now, that is the stat quo for a well paying job unless you want to do a trade and fuck up your joints and lower your lifespan (welding + plumbing + pipefitting + auto mechanics) with exposure to chemicals.

 

[Engineer]

One thing you're missing is that our standard of living is significantly higher with a better educated workforce. Even if McD workers have degrees... this education has undoubtedly raised our standard of living in the transition of manufacturing to service based. Adapt or gtfo is what this shift forced. While it sucks that everyone has to get a degree now, that is the stat quo for a well paying job unless you want to do a trade and fuck up your joints and lower your lifespan (welding + plumbing + pipefitting + auto mechanics) with exposure to chemicals.

Yet, this US generation, the most educated in US history, is expected to have a lower standard of living than their parents. Now what?

Oh, and McDonalds employees with a degree are still low paid McDonald employees. If their standard of living is higher, it's because of government aid, not their wages and benefits from McDonalds. Add in a hundred thousand in debt and you're really in trouble trying to get by at McDonalds. Good luck with that future...do you want fries with it?

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Really pissed me off even more when one of the professors said that they were not using the web portion.

What's she studying?

I came out of CS not too long ago. I still remember paying $692 for textbooks the first semester - I ended up barely using any of them.

After that I just stopped buying textbooks. Most of the time, it wasn't needed, and if it was, I got some older edition off Amazon (amazing how fast prices on them drop). Now that I think of it none of my classes ever required me to buy a textbook to access an online portion.

If anything I'd tell you to wait until classes start and see what the prof/syllabus says regarding their necessity. Not like you do much learning during the first week of class.

 

[compuwiz1]

Family pressure, peer pressure and misguided inner pressure can make people feel that they are not worthy unless they apply to a college and take out a loan. Many people are so misguided by all of the above.
How about an opt out choice? I didn't go to college, except for some community college, which I paid for out of pocket.
I know many financially successful people who never experienced the burden of a student loan repayment.