How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

[UNCjigga]

Do you think this thread would exist if Obama or Hillary were president, and their response had been substantially similar?

Given certain folks’ infatuation with all things Clinton and Obama, you bet your ass this thread would exist with a much more “Benghazi” tone.

 

[Paratus]

Do you think this thread would exist if Obama or Hillary were president, and their response had been substantially similar?

We have threads where liberals are ripping Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders apart. We did it to Hillary too.

While nary a negative word will cross conservative lips about Trump liberals generally have no problem ripping into their own for faults real or perceived.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You asked a question and I am helping you get an answer to it. Don’t worry about what people here would have posted, let’s work to see if we can figure out if Obama bore a similar level of culpability for fatalities from swine flu that Trump bears here.

You appear to think they do share a similar level of guilt so let’s start there. What actions do you think Obama took that were errors of similar magnitude to what Trump has done here? Be specific.

he con`t answer you, he will ask you another question...that`s how it works...

 

[JEDIYoda]

This goes here and so many other places...... language warning --- not for the faint of heart!!!

 

[Atreus21]

Atreus21, you do realize that the number of influenza deaths in 2009, 12,469, was one of the lowest mortality rates for a flu season before and after that particular season, right? Its almost as if you didn't do any research on the topic before bringing up President Obama.

Those were swine flu deaths, not regular flu deaths. Perhaps read your links before you link them.

Did President Obama tell people not to worry about the influenza pandemic? Did Obama fire essential staff for monitoring for the development of a pandemic? Did Obama breakup study groups that were trying to identify novel viruses before they become a world-wide pandemic? Did he decide he didn't care so much, and refused WHO testing during his pandemic? Did he deal with a testing shortage? Were there a shortage of personal protective equipment during that pandemic? Did he promote usage of drugs that have never been clearly shown to be effective against a virus and never approved by the FDA against the virus?

It really is like you put zero thought into your comment.

Swine flu infected 60 million Americans and killed over 10,000 of them. That Obama is seen as perfectly blameless for that while Trump is villified for a number far less speaks more of partisanship than any intelligent analysis or comparison.

 

[fskimospy]

Those were swine flu deaths, not regular flu deaths. Perhaps read your links before you link them.

Swine flu infected 60 million Americans and killed over 10,000 of them. That Obama is seen as perfectly blameless for that while Trump is villified for a number far less speaks more of partisanship than any intelligent analysis or comparison.

I have repeatedly asked you for intelligent analysis and comparison and so far you have declined.

 

[Atreus21]

You asked a question and I am helping you get an answer to it. Don’t worry about what people here would have posted, let’s work to see if we can figure out if Obama bore a similar level of culpability for fatalities from swine flu that Trump bears here.

You appear to think they do share a similar level of guilt so let’s start there. What actions do you think Obama took that were errors of similar magnitude to what Trump has done here? Be specific.

Thanks for trying to divert me, but I would like an answer to my question. Do you really think this thread would exist if Hillary were president and had handled thing the same way? Social distancing, testing shortages, etc.

 

[Atreus21]

I have repeatedly asked you for intelligent analysis and comparison and so far you have declined.

Since it comes to that, what did Obama do to prevent the spread of swine flu?

 

[alien42]

Since it comes to that, what did Obama do to prevent the spread of swine flu?

it isn't about prevention, no one can do that, it's about mitigation and management.

Obama got a high grade while Trump is failing miserably.

 

[abj13]

Those were swine flu deaths, not regular flu deaths. Perhaps read your links before you link them.

That has to be one of your dumbest comments ever. You realize in 2009-2010, the entire flu season was due to H1N1, and it simply came earlier in the year (late spring with the second wave in the fall) than previous years, right?

Its like you have zero understanding of influenza seasons. Perhaps you should actually read the links before commenting.

Swine flu infected 60 million Americans and killed over 10,000 of them. That Obama is seen as perfectly blameless for that while Trump is villified for a number far less speaks more of partisanship than any intelligent analysis or comparison.

Why even both quoting me if you aren't going to respond to what I posted? This entire thread is about the failures of the current administration. Please, tell us all, what exactly were the analogous failures of the Obama administration in 2009? Did President Obama tell people not to worry about the influenza pandemic? Did Obama fire essential staff for monitoring for the development of a pandemic? Did Obama breakup study groups that were trying to identify novel viruses before they become a world-wide pandemic? Did he decide he didn't care so much, and refused WHO testing during his pandemic? Did he deal with a testing shortage? Were there a shortage of personal protective equipment during that pandemic? Did he promote usage of drugs that have never been clearly shown to be effective against a virus and never approved by the FDA against the virus?

And if you think SARS-CoV-2 is going to kill less than 10,000 Americans... you really are an optimist.

 

[fskimospy]

Thanks for trying to divert me, but I would like an answer to my question. Do you really think this thread would exist if Hillary were president and had handled thing the same way? Social distancing, testing shortages, etc.

Lol. You demanded an answer to your first question and now that I’m trying to do exactly that you’ve decided you don’t want an answer to that anymore and are now demanding I answer a new question.

We can get to your second question after we answer your first. You insinuated Obama’s response was similarly incompetent to Trump’s. Why do you think this, specifically?

 

[fskimospy]

Since it comes to that, what did Obama do to prevent the spread of swine flu?

See my other comment. You are the one insinuating Obama’s response was similarly inadequate so it’s on you to state why.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Those were swine flu deaths, not regular flu deaths. Perhaps read your links before you link them.



Swine flu infected 60 million Americans and killed over 10,000 of them. That Obama is seen as perfectly blameless for that while Trump is villified for a number far less speaks more of partisanship than any intelligent analysis or comparison.

Did Obama downplay the swine flu and did he ever call it a hoax. Yes or no answers only please.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Thanks for trying to divert me, but I would like an answer to my question. Do you really think this thread would exist if Hillary were president and had handled thing the same way? Social distancing, testing shortages, etc.

Dude the answer is the country under Obama`s leadership was greatly more prepared for the Swine Flu!
Trumps administration amde a lot of false claims about the Obama administration not bei ng as prepared......do a fact check!! All Trumps claims are wrong!!

Did Obama Declare Swine Flu Emergency Only After 'Millions' Infected?

Not all "fact checks" are created equal.

www.snopes.com

 

[JEDIYoda]

Here Atreus21 let me view things from your perspective --

 

[Atreus21]

Lol. You demanded an answer to your first question and now that I’m trying to do exactly that you’ve decided you don’t want an answer to that anymore and are now demanding I answer a new question.

Well no, what happened was you skirted a direct answer.

We can get to your second question after we answer your first. You insinuated Obama’s response was similarly incompetent to Trump’s. Why do you think this, specifically?

Because (a) if presidents are incompetent for failing to prevent the spread of pandemic diseases like this and (b) swine flu was permitted to spread to about a fifth of the country, then (conclusion) Obama's response, whatever it was, can hardly be called competent.

But that's not what I truly believe. I reject premise A, barring truly egregious misbehavior.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Well no, what happened was you skirted a direct answer.



Because (a) if presidents are incompetent for failing to prevent the spread of pandemic diseases like this and (b) swine flu was permitted to spread to about a fifth of the country, then (conclusion) Obama's response, whatever it was, can hardly be called competent.

Some people think like children! You are being way too literal......
You do realize under Trump the CDC has been greatly cut back due to funding?
You so realize that the team that was set up to deal with a pandemic was dismantled by you guessed it -- Trump!!
You also realize that the real issue is not preventing the pandemic?
The real issue is that under Trump we had no infrastructure in place to deal with a pandemic!
Where as under Obama they even had drills and what not to prepare for a pandemic!
Under Trump there is nothing......

 

[fskimospy]

Well no, what happened was you skirted a direct answer.

No, I asked for more information so I could answer it. You’ve repeatedly refused to provide any. Why?

Because (a) if presidents are incompetent for failing to prevent the spread of pandemic diseases like this and (b) swine flu was permitted to spread to about a fifth of the country, then (conclusion) Obama's response, whatever it was, can hardly be called competent.

But that's not what I truly believe. I reject premise A, barring truly egregious misbehavior.

No, presidents are not necessarily incompetent for failing to prevent the spread of disease. In some cases it may be impossible. That doesn’t mean that they cannot be more or less competent in mitigating the disease.

So for like the fifth time, what SPECIFICALLY do you think Obama did or failed to do that made his response on par with Trump’s?

 

[you2]

Of course he put zero thought into its comments. It is much easier to troll if you ignore the facts.

Atreus21, you do realize that the number of influenza deaths in 2009, 12,469, was one of the lowest mortality rates for a flu season before and after that particular season, right? Its almost as if you didn't do any research on the topic before bringing up President Obama.

Did President Obama tell people not to worry about the influenza pandemic? Did Obama fire essential staff for monitoring for the development of a pandemic? Did Obama breakup study groups that were trying to identify novel viruses before they become a world-wide pandemic? Did he decide he didn't care so much, and refused WHO testing during his pandemic? Did he deal with a testing shortage? Were there a shortage of personal protective equipment during that pandemic? Did he promote usage of drugs that have never been clearly shown to be effective against a virus and never approved by the FDA against the virus?

It really is like you put zero thought into your comment.

 

[you2]

This is not true. Trump tried to significantly reduce cdc funding but congress didn't let him. While he did manage to disband portions of the pandemic response team he was not able totally gut cdc.

However, it doesn't really matter how much funding the cdc has since Trump will not listen to their advice during a pandemic.

The CDC started planning back in Jan but Trump didn't do a thing until march and there is still quite a bit he hasn't done (though to be honest it is quite late for him to take useful action).

Think about it Trump the businessman single handed gutted the us economy in a matter of weeks.

People might say hindsight is brilliant but think about what senator Burr was telling businessman in NC back in Feb while Trump was....

Some people think like children! You are being way too literal......
You do relize under Trump the CDC has been gratly cut back due to funding?
You so realize that the team that was set up to del with a pandemic was dismantled by you guessed it -- Trump!!
You also realize that the real issue is not preventing the pandemic?
The real issue is that under Trump we had no infrastructure in place to deal with a pandemic!
Where as under Obama they even had drills and what not to prepare for a pandemic!
Under Trump there is nothing......

 

[abj13]

swine flu was permitted to spread to about a fifth of the country, then (conclusion) Obama's response, whatever it was, can hardly be called competent.

Oh look at the change in goal posts. Before it was ragging on the number of deaths... what happened to using that as your argument?

Citing the number infected is a weak diversion. For President Obama there were mitigation strategies namely (1) FDA approved drug treatments (2) Vaccination. Prevention of infection was less of an objective in 2009 because such interventions existed. This is clearly laid out by the CDC's mitigation strategy which you haven't read.

Do we have FDA approved drugs for SARS-CoV-2? Do we have a vaccine? What is the mortality rate of SARS-CoV-2 versus the pH1N1 strain? This is why the health care response to COVID-19 is so different AND HAS TO BE DIFFERENT. This is why testing and quarantine matters so that we can flatten the curve to give us time to develop (1) FDA approved drug treatments and (2) a vaccine. Until then, we are dealing with a virus with >10x higher mortality rate than pH1N1. Instead, we get a president promoting drugs that have very little support behind their efficacy. Instead we get an administration that has completely bungled development of tests to aide in the identification of patients needing self-quarantine. Instead we get an administration that removed key leaders that could have given us further lead time to develop the necessary infrastructure to absorb the effects of the virus. Instead we get an administration telling us to not worry when preparations should have been started in Dec/Jan.

 

[brycejones]

So for like the fifth time, what SPECIFICALLY do you think Obama did or failed to do that made his response on par with Trump’s?

This information was not supplied in his talking points. Its just Fox and other right wing news outlets screaming "Obama, swine flu".

 

[Atreus21]

No, I asked for more information so I could answer it. You’ve repeatedly refused to provide any. Why?

...because of exactly what I just said. You're avoiding the question by asking for specifics you should offer me, not I you. If Obama is not to blame for 60 million infected by swine flu, but Trump is to blame for the 60,000 infected from C19, I'd like to know why that is.

Do you think Obama's response to swine flu was adequate, given the fact that 60 million Americans were infected and 10,000+ died? Why did Obama or other segments of government not implement social distancing as has happened under Trump, for example?

No, presidents are not necessarily incompetent for failing to prevent the spread of disease. In some cases it may be impossible. That doesn’t mean that they cannot be more or less competent in mitigating the disease.

So for like the fifth time, what SPECIFICALLY do you think Obama did or failed to do that made his response on par with Trump’s?

I'm not sure, as I don't recall much of what he did at all beyond declaring a national emergency in October 2009. What do you think he did?

 

[fskimospy]

...because of exactly what I just said. You're avoiding the question by asking for specifics you should offer me, not I you. If Obama is not to blame for 60 million infected by swine flu, but Trump is to blame for the 60,000 infected from C19, I'd like to know why that is.

Do you think Obama's response to swine flu was adequate, given the fact that 60 million Americans were infected and 10,000+ died? Why did Obama or other segments of government not implement social distancing as has happened under Trump, for example?

I don’t have to offer you anything. You’re making the claim, you back it up.

Are you saying that Obama’s response was similarly incompetent because he didn’t implement social distancing and should have? Just trying to make sure I’m getting the basis for your claims. Are there any other things you think he should have done or not done?

I'm not sure, as I don't recall much of what he did at all beyond declaring a national emergency in October 2009. What do you think he did?

It’s not important what I think he did, you’re making the claim, not me.

 

[K1052]

Never forget who the real victim is here.